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10/18/2007 12:41:26 AM · #51 |
Originally posted by BeeCee:
I may not "like" some images but I think I "need" them, and I won't avoid them because I don't get warm fuzzies from them. |
Amen.
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10/18/2007 01:42:38 AM · #52 |
No offense to the original poster (I can understand his concern), but there are some unpleasant images that probably SHOULD be burned into our brains. I won't mention them in this thread (in deference to the original poster) but I'm sure if I mentioned them, you'd immediately see them in your mind. They do serve a purpose.
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10/18/2007 05:06:09 AM · #53 |
Originally posted by fotomann_forever:
Is it hypocritical? Yes, but that's US Law.
Could DPC be more proactive on other subject matter? Sure, at the risk of censoring artistic license. |
Why is Leroy answering his own questions? I don't know.
Is he going insane? Probably. |
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10/18/2007 05:36:26 AM · #54 |
I have agreed with most of these comments; going back to a point made a while by Focuspoint about the Nightmares challenge and some supposed depiction of drug use or something similar. It's the nightmares challenge! If it was called the 'fluffy bunnies challenge' then there might be a case but to me, nightmares are supposed to be something dark, scary and something we do not want to see. Saying that, it isn't 'real life' it's a staged diorama setup for the purpose of taking a picture and the shock factor is it's biggest strength as it makes people take notice- this is true with movies like Saw and Silent Hill and even Texas Chainsaw Massacre back in the day.
I am from the camp that we need the dark, edgy and possibly abusive images to shock us into realising there is far more to this craft than portraits and weddings. Also, I am from the camp that art, by it's very nature, is controversial and has been throughout the centuries: Tibetan art contains images of nude women bleeding (represents fertility). When Madame X was relased in 1884 it caused an outrage as the posing of the woman was overtly sexual... now we have different methods of causing controversy and providing the shock factor.
I agree that some censorship should be in place at DPC because there are occasionally minors around that are below 16 and who might be offended, or intrigued, by some of the grittier images here, but that's why they hide certain pictures due to content. I for one advocate pushing the envelope and happen to veer towards the peculiar images. It's been a long standing dream of mine to be a war photographer because people need to see those shots.
Life is not always fluffy bunnies, life is not always nightmares. |
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10/18/2007 08:02:06 AM · #55 |
| well, this [thumb]543737[/thumb] is a photo that win the pulitzer prize some years ago. do you think that this photo could be Publishable on dpc? this is a terrible image, and I don't think that a snake that eat a mouse is worse of this. Legal actions for genitalia and sexual acts? I think that is only a choice of the owner because there are many great web sites in USA also that haven't problems with these photos. |
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10/18/2007 09:16:23 AM · #56 |
The guy was troubled by the dying rat. I too am an animal lover and yes, snakes gotta eat and what do they eat? Rats. But it is troubling to witness it in such graphic detail, with eyeballs burgeoning and facial expressions of a dying animal. Some of us are not de-sensitized by lifes carnage yet. Allow us to express that without judgement if you will?
He has a right to feel offended, violated and hurt. I didn't like it either because I have had rats as pets, and they are friendly, curious and intelligent.
Will leaving dpc for another site help? Probably not. Just try to view the thumbnail better before clicking. Thats my recommendation.
Message edited by author 2007-10-18 09:26:45. |
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10/18/2007 09:41:44 AM · #57 |
Originally posted by CalliopeKel:
...Just try to view the thumbnail better before clicking. Thats my recommendation. |
In voting, you exposed to the whole image. But, the snake is not the only problem, one of the problems I had still in voting, and taken out by SC.
I will not vote again, just submit my photos. Slowly I am going to take my business elsewhere. I am not saying we should stop these things, or I could find place that is %100 eye friendly (for most I think), but I am trying avoid as much as I can. Same in real life, by not watching TV. Some may sees it as fun, I don't, I see as a pain and I don't see any reason to enjoy it. Personal, but not lonely expression of mine. |
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10/18/2007 10:21:12 AM · #58 |
| some years ago there was a good italian web site for photography. there was excellent professional photographers and very good amateur photographers and was a good thing for the new entries in photography to learn from their. after a couple of years begin some discussions with a similar content and after some months the best photographers goes out from the site. well that was the beginning of the end. I hope that this will be only an episode and don't will be the rule. |
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10/18/2007 10:23:05 AM · #59 |
Originally posted by Rino63:
well, this [thumb]543737[/thumb] is a photo that win the pulitzer prize some years ago. do you think that this photo could be Publishable on dpc? this is a terrible image, and I don't think that a snake that eat a mouse is worse of this. Legal actions for genitalia and sexual acts? I think that is only a choice of the owner because there are many great web sites in USA also that haven't problems with these photos. |
Man, talk about emotive. Wow.
Here's some info on the photographer that took that picture.
Photographer Haunted by Horror of His Work
Obituary: Kevin Carter 1960 - 1994
Johannesburg - Kevin Carter, the South African photographer whose image of a starving Sudanese toddler stalked by a vulture won him a Pulitzer Prize this year, was found dead on Wednesday night, apparently a suicide, police said yesterday. He was 33. The police said Mr Carter's body and several letters to friends and family were discovered in his pick-up truck, parked in a Johannesburg suburb. An inquest showed that he had died of carbon monoxide poisoning.
Mr Carter started as a sports photographer in 1983 but soon moved to the front lines of South African political strife, recording images of repression, anti-apartheid protest and fratricidal violence. A few davs after winning his Pulitzer Prize in April, Mr Carter was nearby when one of his closest friends and professional companions, Ken Oosterbroek, was shot dead photographing a gun battle in Tokoza township.
Friends said Mr Carter was a man of tumultuous emotions which brought passion to his work but also drove him to extremes of elation and depression. Last year, saying he needed a break from South Africa's turmoil, he paid his own way to the southern Sudan to photograph a civil war and famine that he felt the world was overlooking.
His picture of an emaciated girl collapsing on the way to a feeding centre, as a plump vulture lurked in the background, was published first in The New York Times and The Mail & Guardian, a Johannesburg weekly. The reaction to the picture was so strong that The New York Times published an unusual editor's note on the fate of the girl. Mr Carter said she resumed her trek to the feeding centre. He chased away the vulture.
Afterwards, he told an interviewer, he sat under a tree for a long time, "smoking cigarettes and crying". His father, Mr Jimmy Carter laid last night: "Kevin always carried around the horror of the work he did." - The New York Times
Source: Sydney Morning Herald Saturday 30 July 1994
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10/18/2007 10:23:17 AM · #60 |
'mornin Leo.
You might consider pre-screening a challenge, by looking at all the images as thumbnails first. This would at least minimize the details, as well as 'prepare' you for what will be shown full-size.
Hope this helps...
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10/18/2007 10:42:27 AM · #61 |
Originally posted by rossbilly:
'mornin Leo.
You might consider pre-screening a challenge, by looking at all the images as thumbnails first. This would at least minimize the details, as well as 'prepare' you for what will be shown full-size.
Hope this helps... |
Thanks, I totaly forgot about that :) |
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10/18/2007 10:52:37 AM · #62 |
Originally posted by dudephil:
...Kevin Carter, the South African photographer whose image of a starving Sudanese toddler stalked by a vulture won him a Pulitzer Prize this year, was found dead on Wednesday night, apparently a suicide... |
I believe "seeing" things could make you live more or kill you quicker. I rather see things that will make me want to live, not kill myself. Life tough, we all know about that. Why we avoid though neighbor, and take the safe streets, most likely to protect ourselves, but also not to see things going on there, or involve with hem. And why we go to a nice park, top of a mountain and see the beauty of life, because we feel good, we feel life.
Things are natural to all, everything that matters natural, spitting on the floor, sex, killing animals for food. But do we really have to witness all?
That photo, which I didn't look at the larger version, is a big affection to all. Don’t we know there are dying children out there... now we see it, how do we feel? Better? I doubt it.
I am trying to keep my vision clean, my track clean as possible. The things I saw already in my mind no need fresh ones. |
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10/18/2007 11:06:10 AM · #63 |
Originally posted by FocusPoint:
That photo, which I didn't look at the larger version, is a big affection to all. Don’t we know there are dying children out there... now we see it, how do we feel? Better? I doubt it.
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But that's the double edged sword of photography. I understand why you don't look at the larger version and maybe you shouldn't. Does it make me feel better to look at it? Nope. Does it make me feel more sympathy for these children by seeing it rather than reading about it? Absolutely. Ten books couldn't tell the story that this single photograph did.
I'd bet that this image did 10,000 times more good than bad for these people. I wonder how many dollars were donated by people shedding tears while writing out a check. |
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10/18/2007 11:12:12 AM · #64 |
Originally posted by dudephil:
... I wonder how many dollars were donated by people shedding tears while writing out a check. |
That's a shame isn't it? We are human beings, supposed to be the superior race of all... we still need to get emotional to help each other rather than comes to us naturally... I am hopefully though, we as human beings still developing race, one day, if we survive that long, things should be better for all. Without any visual help. |
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10/18/2007 11:28:49 AM · #65 |
Originally posted by FocusPoint:
Originally posted by dudephil:
... I wonder how many dollars were donated by people shedding tears while writing out a check. |
That's a shame isn't it? We are human beings, supposed to be the superior race of all... we still need to get emotional to help each other rather than comes to us naturally... I am hopefully though, we as human beings still developing race, one day, if we survive that long, things should be better for all. Without any visual help. |
I'm not so sure it's a shame. It would be hard to appreciate such a way of life if you've never seen or lived it. Sure, we should be willing to help each other regardless but evoking emotion is a great way to gain support for the cause. You may not need it but I don't think it means that your neighbor is any less of a person because he does. |
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10/18/2007 11:35:11 AM · #66 |
 dudephil that's a whole another argument. I would discuss that why are we at that point to start with... and we are at this point, all the help we give, all goes to the right place?
Very deep. Without side tracking this thread, I was only hoping that people here, photographers, would take decent photos, for the contest, for the ribbons, and keep the pictures clean as possible without any shocking images, knowingly that they are not really gonna win, but just cool photos. There are places for me, and there are places for them. Let's see if we could avoid each other in the same room. |
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10/18/2007 11:52:30 AM · #67 |
What I find kind of amusing in this thread is that a lot of what people are complaining about being harsh and offensive is the world around us and reality.
Young kids use drugs, have sex, commit crimes, etc. I know its not fun to think about, and its depressing to know, but its happening.
While I agree some level of censorship should maintained, simply to keep this site from becoming a place for couples to post cell phone pictures of their wives spread, etc. But when it comes to content that is more offensive due to its harshness (mimiced drug use, mimiced suicide, etc) I think we need to allow things like this because they serve as a wake up call, and as a reminder, that collectively, as a world, things aren't alright. I don't think it will ever become an epidemic on this site, too many older people (and younger ones too) with too strong of a moral code to stand for it (just my opinion and observation), but it deserves documentation. |
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10/18/2007 11:56:10 AM · #68 |
Originally posted by FocusPoint:
Originally posted by dudephil:
...Kevin Carter, the South African photographer whose image of a starving Sudanese toddler stalked by a vulture won him a Pulitzer Prize this year, was found dead on Wednesday night, apparently a suicide... |
I believe "seeing" things could make you live more or kill you quicker. I rather see things that will make me want to live, not kill myself. Life tough, we all know about that. Why we avoid though neighbor, and take the safe streets, most likely to protect ourselves, but also not to see things going on there, or involve with hem. And why we go to a nice park, top of a mountain and see the beauty of life, because we feel good, we feel life.
Things are natural to all, everything that matters natural, spitting on the floor, sex, killing animals for food. But do we really have to witness all?
That photo, which I didn't look at the larger version, is a big affection to all. Don’t we know there are dying children out there... now we see it, how do we feel? Better? I doubt it.
I am trying to keep my vision clean, my track clean as possible. The things I saw already in my mind no need fresh ones. |
Do you watch the news? Or television at all? Your post realllly bothers me. I usually don't pay attention to things, but this one bothered me a lot. Go through life with blinders on...sounds like a pretty dull existence.
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10/18/2007 11:59:41 AM · #69 |
Originally posted by ajdelaware:
...Do you watch the news? Or television at all? Your post realllly bothers me.... |
No, I don't... Just some learning channels, but that's it.
You don't bother me, why am I bothering you? You can watch "face of death" if you like, I don't care. Although I would think you are a sick person if you did, but that's about it. If you open a thread about it, I wouldn't even bother to replying anything... ignore it. Just like you tell me to ignore things... If this thread bothered you, you came here to tell me somethingâ€Â¦ I did the same thing. |
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10/18/2007 12:07:37 PM · #70 |
Whhhhhhat. I didn't tell you to ignore things. I told you to do the exact opposite, unless I misread what you had written before, you said you rather just not go through certain places and see certain things because you dont want to be bothered by them.
Faces of Death videos are lame as shit, thats a fact, and there is no reason to watch 1.5 hours of people getting killed, thats just silly. What I am saying though, is that when someone posts an image that is of harsh content, that is a little bit out of your comfort zone, you shouldn't ignore it just because it makes you uncomfortable. Discomfort can lead to awareness and awareness can lead to a change, or if not change, education.
I may not want to see an image of a 14 year old suburban kid bootin heroin and passed out in a corner, but that image is going to stick with me, its a wake up call, and while I might not be able to help him, I will know that when I have kids, this is something I have to teach them about, something I have to look out for.
Harsh content has its purpose. Harsh content for the purpose of entertainment is a little weak, in some cases. Harsh content that leads to awareness and potential change and education? Thats priceless. |
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10/18/2007 12:15:23 PM · #71 |
Originally posted by FocusPoint:
......all the help we give, all goes to the right place? |
I dunno. All I can worry about is that it comes from the right place
Originally posted by FocusPoint:
Very deep. Without side tracking this thread, I was only hoping that people here, photographers, would take decent photos, for the contest, for the ribbons, and keep the pictures clean as possible without any shocking images, knowingly that they are not really gonna win, but just cool photos. There are places for me, and there are places for them. Let's see if we could avoid each other in the same room. |
I understand but I don't see how that's possible. You have your opinions on what is shocking and why you do or don't need to see them but most opinions here are totally different. I guess the only feasible thing for you to do would be to leave but I don't think that's a good answer. Just try to look at the thumbnails before voting and go from there.
You do have a valid point in shooting for the contests here. This is a challenge site and there are two ways of looking at this place.
1. Shoot what you like and don't worry about numbers.
2. If you don't happen to like staged photos and sunsets, get out of your comfort zone and try it to prove that you can ribbon.
I do think how s/he wants to use this site is up to the individual. If we start stifling real world shots so we can just have challenges of purple skies and oversaturated water shots (see my challenge entries for dpl - YUCK!) then this place would be a huge borefest. |
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10/18/2007 12:16:44 PM · #72 |
 ajdelaware, I agree with you, but this is DPC, supposed to be a fun place, which all you need to do is to win ribbon, or learn something. There are places for other things; I don't think this is the place for them. That's why I am here; to have fun, see good stuff, not bad stuff. I watch learning channels, like something about the space. I know there won't be any road-kills on that program so I sit and watch comfortably. Same thing here. I was pretty comfortable until I saw some disturbing photos. Now I know I have to be more careful what I look at here. |
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10/18/2007 12:18:12 PM · #73 |
Originally posted by ajdelaware:
Do you watch the news? Or television at all? Your post realllly bothers me. I usually don't pay attention to things, but this one bothered me a lot. Go through life with blinders on...sounds like a pretty dull existence. |
I think he's entitled to go through life anyway he sees fit as long as he's not harming anyone else. Bothered? Seeriously? |
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10/18/2007 12:20:52 PM · #74 |
Originally posted by dudephil:
...then this place would be a huge borefest. |
I think I may give you the wrong sign about this. You can take anything you want, don't care, but how far is too far. Taste that matters. What is acceptable and what is not? the limit, is it endless, than not a place for me honestly. Not every photographer sees or shoots those things. |
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10/18/2007 12:23:17 PM · #75 |
Originally posted by dudephil:
Originally posted by ajdelaware:
Do you watch the news? Or television at all? Your post realllly bothers me. I usually don't pay attention to things, but this one bothered me a lot. Go through life with blinders on...sounds like a pretty dull existence. |
I think he's entitled to go through life anyway he sees fit as long as he's not harming anyone else. Bothered? Seeriously? |
Its not him alone that bothers me, but the fact that this seems to be an incredibly common mind set, at least here in America.
I dont know. Maybe im just the youth of today talking.
I dont go out of my way to see things like this, its not like I say, well I have to paths here, this one will take me through the slums, and this one will take me through the happy rich white suburbia land, but im going to take the slum route to be shocked. Its natural for us to avoid things that make us uncomfortable, I think its very unnatural and harmful to IGNORE things that make us uncomfortable.
Oh well, I think i've had 1 person agree with me, ever, about anything I've posted on here, so I'm not going to expect it to change today.
Ignorance is bliss! |
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