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10/17/2007 01:05:13 PM · #26 |
Originally posted by papagei:
And I am expecting an order from them today... |
well, you should be happy to know that your order helped pay for 4.3 million in settlement, raises, and brandy new benefits!
If this were Walmart, they would have settled out of court and fired them all when the news died down. B&H did right in keeping the workers, giving them retro-active raises and adding more benefits.
Everyone makes mistakes, even B&H. Doesn't mean that they're the antichrist or something.
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10/17/2007 03:04:49 PM · #27 |
Originally posted by wavelength:
Originally posted by papagei:
And I am expecting an order from them today... |
well, you should be happy to know that your order helped pay for 4.3 million in settlement, raises, and brandy new benefits!
If this were Walmart, they would have settled out of court and fired them all when the news died down. B&H did right in keeping the workers, giving them retro-active raises and adding more benefits.
Everyone makes mistakes, even B&H. Doesn't mean that they're the antichrist or something. |
Oh I am not casting stones here. Better we boycott Walmart!
If we avoid Walmart and products from China, there isn't much left to buy - except cameras and lenses :)
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10/17/2007 03:23:28 PM · #28 |
Originally posted by papagei:
If we avoid Walmart and products from China, there isn't much left to buy - except cameras and lenses :) |
That's so right! |
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10/17/2007 03:44:37 PM · #29 |
Originally posted by papagei:
Better we boycott Walmart!
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I have never been to Wal Mart. |
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10/17/2007 04:00:25 PM · #30 |
Originally posted by Spazmo99:
Originally posted by papagei:
Better we boycott Walmart!
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I have never been to Wal Mart. |
Good for you!
see //www.pbs.org/itvs/storewars/stores3.html
"Despite a well-publicized "Made in the U.S.A." campaign, 85 percent of the stores' items are made overseas, often in Third World sweatshops. In fact, only after Wal-Mart's "Buy American" ad campaign was in full swing did the company become the country's largest importer of Chinese goods in any industry. By taking its orders abroad, Wal-Mart has forced many U.S. manufacturers out of business. The chain was broadly criticized for being the primary distributor of many goods attracting controversy, including Kathie Lee Gifford's clothing line, Disney's Haitian-made pajamas, child-produced clothing from Bangladesh and sweatshop-produced toys and sports gear from Asia. Difficult working conditions also exist in the United States: In 1991, labor inspectors found labels for Wal-Mart brands being made in Manhattan's Chinatown. There, 16 and 17 year-old Chinese immigrants without permits had been working for one month without being paid."
"Forbes magazine, polling business executives (not employees) has ranked Wal-Mart among the best 100 corporations to work for. Yet the employees on average take home pay of under $250 a week. The salary for full-time employees (called "associates") is $6 to $7.50 an hour for 28-40 hours a week, which is typical in the discount retail industry. This pay scale places employees with families below the poverty line, with the majority of employees' children qualifying for free lunch at school. When closely examined, this amounts to a form of corporate welfare, as the taxpayer subsidizes the low salaries. One-third are part-time employees - limited to less than 28 hours of work per week - and are not eligible for benefits."
And there is so much more...
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10/17/2007 04:22:29 PM · #31 |
Still my favorite site ever
I know this is harsh, but I have no sympathy for anyone who would sit in a warehouse job with little pay and no hope of promotion. You are what you make of yourself.
I'm just waiting to see what this does to prices.
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10/17/2007 04:34:20 PM · #32 |
Originally posted by fotomann_forever:
I know this is harsh, but I have no sympathy for anyone who would sit in a warehouse job with little pay and no hope of promotion. You are what you make of yourself.
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That's so dispassionate of you.
Did you ever stop to consider that such jobs may be the pinnacle of what some people are capable of or aspire to?
Let them eat cake, right?
If you truly are what you make of yourself, why aren't you being hailed as the greatest photographer on the planet, living or dead?
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10/17/2007 04:35:52 PM · #33 |
B&H does have that "pay nothing for 6 months" promotion, so shop now! :)
And UPS has not come yet with my lenses = arrrgh.
Message edited by author 2007-10-17 16:36:43.
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10/17/2007 04:42:14 PM · #34 |
Originally posted by dwterry:
Just curious... how many of those, if any, were undocumented workers? |
You know, I was thinking the same thing while reading the article.
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10/17/2007 04:43:39 PM · #35 |
Originally posted by Spazmo99:
If you truly are what you make of yourself, why aren't you being hailed as the greatest photographer on the planet, living or dead? |
Because I haven't made myself into that photographer. Period. I have absolutely no one to blame for that.
If I've reached my pinnacle, I can't sue all my clients for not paying me more. I can't sue Penthouse for not seeking me out and hiring me. Though that does sound profitable and I'm almost positive US courts would NOT see it as frivolous.
It's not dispassionate. It's fed up with people blaming everyone else for their failed lives. But, I guess now they have money, I can't exactly say they failed can I?
Message edited by author 2007-10-17 16:47:29.
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10/17/2007 05:25:14 PM · #36 |
Originally posted by Nald:
Originally posted by dwterry:
Just curious... how many of those, if any, were undocumented workers? |
You know, I was thinking the same thing while reading the article. |
The thing is ... I figure that if you came into the country illegally, then you should "have no civil claim" in the courts of this land against another citizen. (i.e. if your status is illegal, you can't sue to get paid more)
Even worse ... regardless of citizenship, I figure that if you've decided you are willing to trade your time for X amount of money, and have agreed to do so of your own free will and accord, then X amount of money is what you get. It's a free country. If you don't like working at that job, find another.
Now if the employer somehow coerces its employees into: a) taking a job they don't want, b) paying them a salary they don't agree to, and c) preventing them from leaving said job, then that employer should be punished.
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10/17/2007 05:40:31 PM · #37 |
Originally posted by dwterry:
Even worse ... regardless of citizenship, I figure that if you've decided you are willing to trade your time for X amount of money, and have agreed to do so of your own free will and accord, then X amount of money is what you get. It's a free country. If you don't like working at that job, find another. |
Well my friend, I do believe we have found yet another matter on which we have differing opinions.
As I am currently at work, I truly do not have the time to engage into a long discourse on the subject matter.
Stated as succinctly as possible, I would agree with you if all of the players had a full appreciation of the salary range and perks associated with all similar positions.
It is only then that one can judge their value in relation to others accomplishing identical functions, and in the present case it would seem that ethnicity played a bigger factor in the wage than any other measurable factor.
Ray
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10/17/2007 05:53:05 PM · #38 |
Sorry about that ... I'm forgetting that this is more of an ethnicity problem than a "legal status" problem (of which I am not even certain).
And so, while I am of the opinion that an employer should be allowed to pay its employees whatever wage they (the employer and employee) have agreed to, I do recognize that there are "laws" that prohibit discrimination and that those laws should be followed.
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10/17/2007 06:00:57 PM · #39 |
| Life is just plan simple when you don't care and don't worry with these things. A jury ruled that B&H is at fault. They will pay out the butt for this and prices will go up. |
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10/17/2007 06:02:26 PM · #40 |
Originally posted by dwterry:
I do recognize that there are "laws" that prohibit discrimination and that those laws should be followed. |
I agree too, but this should dwell in the criminal courts, not the civil courts.
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10/17/2007 07:14:46 PM · #41 |
Actually, you have to figure that if they hired Hispanics to under pay, they must have felt they were more trust worthy around all that expensive equipment... or else not as capable as other ethinc groups would be in getting it out the door undetected.
Mike
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10/17/2007 07:18:59 PM · #42 |
Originally posted by Nald:
Originally posted by dwterry:
Just curious... how many of those, if any, were undocumented workers? |
You know, I was thinking the same thing while reading the article. |
I am certainly sure that these were not undocumented workers. They never make waves...they sit back and take whatever injustice is handed them. They live in fear of being sent back. And I don't think this conversation needs to be taken to a place of assuming just because someone is Hispanic they must be here illegally. |
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10/17/2007 07:35:01 PM · #43 |
Originally posted by papagei:
Good for you!
see //www.pbs.org/itvs/storewars/stores3.html
"Despite a well-publicized "Made in the U.S.A." campaign, 85 percent of the stores' items are made overseas, often in Third World sweatshops. In fact, only after Wal-Mart's "Buy American" ad campaign was in full swing did the company become the country's largest importer of Chinese goods in any industry. By taking its orders abroad, Wal-Mart has forced many U.S. manufacturers out of business. The chain was broadly criticized for being the primary distributor of many goods attracting controversy, including Kathie Lee Gifford's clothing line, Disney's Haitian-made pajamas, child-produced clothing from Bangladesh and sweatshop-produced toys and sports gear from Asia. Difficult working conditions also exist in the United States: In 1991, labor inspectors found labels for Wal-Mart brands being made in Manhattan's Chinatown. There, 16 and 17 year-old Chinese immigrants without permits had been working for one month without being paid."
"Forbes magazine, polling business executives (not employees) has ranked Wal-Mart among the best 100 corporations to work for. Yet the employees on average take home pay of under $250 a week. The salary for full-time employees (called "associates") is $6 to $7.50 an hour for 28-40 hours a week, which is typical in the discount retail industry. This pay scale places employees with families below the poverty line, with the majority of employees' children qualifying for free lunch at school. When closely examined, this amounts to a form of corporate welfare, as the taxpayer subsidizes the low salaries. One-third are part-time employees - limited to less than 28 hours of work per week - and are not eligible for benefits."
And there is so much more... |
Hello!! Wal-Mart employee here stepping up on my soapbox :)
Did you know that a company right here in Dayton, TN makes and ships to Wal-Mart (and many other stores in the US) a LOT of apparel. I am pretty sure we are in the US. I know how much that company ships because my husband works for them. I am pretty sure there are many others just like them. Yes, Wal-Mart imports a lot, but we get it at a lower price from the overseas companys so can sell it at a lower price to the consumer. If Wal-Mart were to buy in the US, prices would go up (wayyyy up), and the customers would get angrier about that than they do about us buying from overseas. I deal with these customers on a daily basis and let me tell you, a $.01 difference in what the shelf price says and what the item rings up, and you have a VERY angry customer. Could you imagine what they would do if ALL the prices went up by $5.00 an item? That is a scary thought. :)
Now, to the wages. I don't know where it comes from that Wal-Mart associates are not allowed to work more than 28 hours a week. I am part time (so are all new associates now unless they are in management) and we can work all we want up to 40 hours (but not over) for a period of 12 weeks, then we have to have 1 week with 32 or less. As long as we stick to that, there is no issue. In addition, healthcare is not expensive. Yes, part time employees ARE eligible for benifits after just 1 year. In addition to that, it's not very expensive. My family coverage (7 people) will only be around 48 dollars bi-weekly if I want it after my 1 year in. Also, if you invest your pay in stock, Wal-Mart matches it up to 20% a pay period. That, IMO, is free money. Take into account the discount card that EVERY associate receives, and that adds to the wages too. 10% is 10%. It is also pretty easy to move up through the ranks at Wal-Mart as long as you apply yourself and are smart. There are people there that have been there only 6 months and are about to be promoted because of their abilities, work ethic, and prowess. This is the company standard. We get a nice raise after 90 days too (just about everyone gets SOMETHING after that period). We also get a raise every year after that. Department Managers there make more than you would believe. To be honest, having a job is better than not having a job, Wal-Mart is not a bad place to work, and the opportunities for advancement there are pretty good if a person does their job. :)
Yes, it's probably fun to bash Wal-Mart because we are the "big bad" corporation, I am sure we have done things in the past that we should be ashamed of. However, there are still lots of people that shop there and will continue to do so for a looooong time because it saves them money in the long run and it is convenient.
:) |
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10/17/2007 07:59:20 PM · #44 |
I wasn't specifically talking about everyone who posted here, im talking about people in general. People read shit like this, and next thing you know they are talking about the evils of B&H. Hell, were very lucky they weren't black employees, or else we would have had that self righteous SOB Sharpton declaring that Jews are evil and that B&H should be burnt to the ground. But no worries, just mexicans, nobody cares about them!
Originally posted by hopper:
i got your point, i'm not sure you're getting mine
exactly one person said they weren't going to shop there anymore ... who's getting high and mighty?
I agree with you that people can be reactionary, but that's not happening in this thread ... we're just discussing the news. no one's on a soapbox that i see
Originally posted by ajdelaware:
Originally posted by hopper:
so then why regulate anything? what's the point? laws are broken all the time, why have them?
Originally posted by ajdelaware:
im sure 95% of the places we all frequent, work, shop, support financially, etc, have something "unjust" in their business practices. |
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You missed the point. What im saying is don't get high and mighty and act like B&H are satan and you'll never by there, and then go to Walmart to buy some chintzy clothing that was made in a sweatshop in cambodia. There is nothing that bothers me more than people who pick and choose their beliefs based around convenience to them. If you are going to stand for something, stand for it all the time, not just for when its easy or you think you should. |
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Message edited by author 2007-10-17 19:59:55. |
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10/17/2007 08:00:43 PM · #45 |
Originally posted by TCGuru:
It is also pretty easy to move up through the ranks at Wal-Mart as long as you apply yourself and are smart. |
How unfair is that?? What about people who were born stupid?? Shouldn't they have an equal chance for advancement? What about people who choose to be stupid?? Why should they be penalized for an intellectually alternative lifestyle?
[/sarcasm]
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10/17/2007 08:34:43 PM · #46 |
Originally posted by fotomann_forever:
It's fed up with people blaming everyone else for their failed lives. |
That's not what you said earlier.
Originally posted by fotomann_forever:
I have no sympathy for anyone who would sit in a warehouse job with little pay and no hope of promotion. |
The later statement condemns those who are unhappy, yet unwilling to do anything to rectify the situation.
Your first statement condemns warehouse workers who make low wages and have little hope for advancement.
There's a world of difference. |
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10/17/2007 08:36:45 PM · #47 |
Originally posted by TCGuru:
Originally posted by papagei:
Good for you!
see //www.pbs.org/itvs/storewars/stores3.html
"Despite a well-publicized "Made in the U.S.A." campaign, 85 percent of the stores' items are made overseas, often in Third World sweatshops. In fact, only after Wal-Mart's "Buy American" ad campaign was in full swing did the company become the country's largest importer of Chinese goods in any industry. By taking its orders abroad, Wal-Mart has forced many U.S. manufacturers out of business. The chain was broadly criticized for being the primary distributor of many goods attracting controversy, including Kathie Lee Gifford's clothing line, Disney's Haitian-made pajamas, child-produced clothing from Bangladesh and sweatshop-produced toys and sports gear from Asia. Difficult working conditions also exist in the United States: In 1991, labor inspectors found labels for Wal-Mart brands being made in Manhattan's Chinatown. There, 16 and 17 year-old Chinese immigrants without permits had been working for one month without being paid."
"Forbes magazine, polling business executives (not employees) has ranked Wal-Mart among the best 100 corporations to work for. Yet the employees on average take home pay of under $250 a week. The salary for full-time employees (called "associates") is $6 to $7.50 an hour for 28-40 hours a week, which is typical in the discount retail industry. This pay scale places employees with families below the poverty line, with the majority of employees' children qualifying for free lunch at school. When closely examined, this amounts to a form of corporate welfare, as the taxpayer subsidizes the low salaries. One-third are part-time employees - limited to less than 28 hours of work per week - and are not eligible for benefits."
And there is so much more... |
Hello!! Wal-Mart employee here stepping up on my soapbox :)
Did you know that a company right here in Dayton, TN makes and ships to Wal-Mart (and many other stores in the US) a LOT of apparel. I am pretty sure we are in the US. I know how much that company ships because my husband works for them. I am pretty sure there are many others just like them. Yes, Wal-Mart imports a lot, but we get it at a lower price from the overseas companys so can sell it at a lower price to the consumer. If Wal-Mart were to buy in the US, prices would go up (wayyyy up), and the customers would get angrier about that than they do about us buying from overseas. I deal with these customers on a daily basis and let me tell you, a $.01 difference in what the shelf price says and what the item rings up, and you have a VERY angry customer. Could you imagine what they would do if ALL the prices went up by $5.00 an item? That is a scary thought. :)
Now, to the wages. I don't know where it comes from that Wal-Mart associates are not allowed to work more than 28 hours a week. I am part time (so are all new associates now unless they are in management) and we can work all we want up to 40 hours (but not over) for a period of 12 weeks, then we have to have 1 week with 32 or less. As long as we stick to that, there is no issue. In addition, healthcare is not expensive. Yes, part time employees ARE eligible for benifits after just 1 year. In addition to that, it's not very expensive. My family coverage (7 people) will only be around 48 dollars bi-weekly if I want it after my 1 year in. Also, if you invest your pay in stock, Wal-Mart matches it up to 20% a pay period. That, IMO, is free money. Take into account the discount card that EVERY associate receives, and that adds to the wages too. 10% is 10%. It is also pretty easy to move up through the ranks at Wal-Mart as long as you apply yourself and are smart. There are people there that have been there only 6 months and are about to be promoted because of their abilities, work ethic, and prowess. This is the company standard. We get a nice raise after 90 days too (just about everyone gets SOMETHING after that period). We also get a raise every year after that. Department Managers there make more than you would believe. To be honest, having a job is better than not having a job, Wal-Mart is not a bad place to work, and the opportunities for advancement there are pretty good if a person does their job. :)
Yes, it's probably fun to bash Wal-Mart because we are the "big bad" corporation, I am sure we have done things in the past that we should be ashamed of. However, there are still lots of people that shop there and will continue to do so for a looooong time because it saves them money in the long run and it is convenient.
:) |
I just hate Wal Mart's predatory store growth plans.
Not to mention their driving of the trade deficit with China.
Of course, Wal Mart won't have ANY customers when the customer's job heads off to China without the customer.
Buy the Shirt!
Message edited by author 2007-10-17 20:44:16. |
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10/17/2007 08:57:36 PM · #48 |
Originally posted by Spazmo99:
Your first statement condemns warehouse workers who make low wages and have little hope for advancement.
There's a world of difference. |
As par for the course, you have twisted the statements and read them how you want to read them. But have fun with your beliefs.
Debating with you is about as fruitful as a detached twig in the dessert.
I refuse to go down this path with you.
Message edited by author 2007-10-17 20:59:14.
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10/17/2007 09:19:07 PM · #49 |
Missing from the AP news wire;
"We commend B&H for working cooperatively with us to resolve this matter without protracted litigation," says EEOC New York Trial Attorney Louis Graziano. "We encourage other employers to follow B&H's example of resolving this case expeditiously and in good faith."
Link to EEOC press release
Edited to add link to EEOC press release
Message edited by author 2007-10-17 21:32:44. |
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10/17/2007 09:22:25 PM · #50 |
Originally posted by fotomann_forever:
Originally posted by Spazmo99:
Your first statement condemns warehouse workers who make low wages and have little hope for advancement.
There's a world of difference. |
As par for the course, you have twisted the statements and read them how you want to read them. But have fun with your beliefs.
Debating with you is about as fruitful as a detached twig in the dessert.
I refuse to go down this path with you. |
I just read what you wrote. I twisted nothing. I simply pointed out the inconsistency in your two statements. There's nothing to debate. Clarifying your position one way or the other is up to you. If you don't like it, please read what you have written before you click the "post" button. |
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