How do you.... - DPChallenge Forums

10/13/2007 03:57:06 PM · #1

....make a 580 ex do multiple flashes?

The set up is a Quantum turbo battery, hooked to the 580 ex, to my 1d M2 with a 100-400mm lens.

I do not want a single flash, I want multiple flashes.

When I am on high burst rate, I want a flash every time the shutter is engaged.

How do you make this work to my specifications?

Thanks.

10/13/2007 06:48:11 PM · #2

I will keep bumping this post until I get an answer.

10/13/2007 07:15:21 PM · #3

So, you're not trying to have it burst multiple flashes per exposure ... you're simply wanting the flash to "keep up" with the camera's burst rate. Right?

If so, the only solution is "fast recycle times". The Quanto Turbo Battery is an excellent step in that direction (I would LOVE to have one!). If that still isn't doing it, then higher ISO (so less power is needed) and/or shorter distance to subject (again, so less power is needed). And do _NOT_ use the "High Speed" mode of the flash.

Even doing this, there still may not be enough time for the pre-flash and flash to go off and still keep up with the camera's burst rate.

Nikon AF-S Nikkor 70-200mm f/2.8G ED VR II

10/13/2007 07:21:39 PM · #4

Originally posted by dwterry:

So, you're not trying to have it burst multiple flashes per exposure ... you're simply wanting the flash to "keep up" with the camera's burst rate. Right?

Correct.

Right now, just playing around, I can only get one single flash every 5 frames or so.

Also, the camera goes from my setting of 1/1600 shutter to 1/250 shutter speed, and I don't want that either.

I have the ability to go 8 fps, and would like the flash to keep up closer to this rate.

I have the Quantum on burst.

I am in the fog on the 580 and the 1d M2 and the lens talking to each other.

I am looking for the right buttons to push.

Any answers?

Message edited by author 2007-10-13 19:24:41.

MattO

Nikon D4

10/13/2007 07:34:12 PM · #5

The fact of the matter is, you cant make the flash keep up with the FPS of the 1DMKII. Even with the burst of power from a quantem you cant shoot 8.5 fps with flash and expect it to keep up and live. You need to go into your custom functions and set the setting to allow the flash to use the external and internal power source to recycle. I think there is also a custom function to allow the flash to fire even if its not fully recycled. HSS will need to be engaged if you want to go faster then 1/250. Truth is if you could shoot at 8.5 FPS your flash wouldnt last long as you would overheat it to the point it would be junk on the first shoot.

MattO

Nikon AF-S Nikkor 70-200mm f/2.8G ED VR II

10/13/2007 07:38:28 PM · #6

Originally posted by MattO:

Truth is if you could shoot at 8.5 FPS your flash wouldnt last long as you would overheat it to the point it would be junk on the first shoot.

MattO

Makes sense, but I wouldn't mind if it even did half.

One single flash isn't doing me any good when in HSS.

I see papparazzi do it all the time. I want to do it for sports.

Can you walk me through the process??

Message edited by author 2007-10-13 19:40:00.

MattO

Nikon D4

10/13/2007 07:42:17 PM · #7

I can fire off 2-3 flashes in a burst. Depending on my ISO, SS and available light. If I'm using fill, I can fire off about 5 in a row. Go to manual mode on the flash and see if you can back it off to 1/8th power and HSS and see how many you get. ETTL uses alot of power with the preflash and then the flash.

MattO

10/13/2007 07:50:01 PM · #8

Originally posted by Man_Called_Horse:

Also, the camera goes from my setting of 1/1600 shutter to 1/250 shutter speed, and I don't want that either.

The only way to shoot faster than sync speed, is to put the flash into high speed sync mode. And contrary to what you might be thinking ... high speed sync means the flash is SLOWER / lasts LONGER / uses more POWER and takes longer to recycle.

I posted a few messages in this thread which explain what the flash is having to do in high speed sync mode.

So if you really need high shutter speed, HS sync is the only way to shoot it. But if you can lower your shutter down to sync speed, then effectively it's the length of the flash duration which is lighting your subject (which is faster than the shutter). So the flash will freeze the subject UNLESS you have ambient light falling on the subject. Then you'll get a combination of "frozen" image together with either front or back blur, depending on whether you use first curtain or second curtain sync.

10/13/2007 07:54:07 PM · #9

Originally posted by dwterry:

[quote=Man_Called_Horse] depending on whether you use first curtain or second curtain sync.

the difference being?

Carl Zeiss 50mm ZE f/1.4 Planar T for Canon

10/13/2007 07:58:52 PM · #10

Originally posted by MattO:

iso 320, 4.5f on a 100-400mm lens, about a 3.5f ambient, 1/1000 shutter, quantum on burst, 580 0n manuel @1/8 with the three little horizontal arrows and on zoom 105mm

still one flash only.

Message edited by author 2007-10-13 19:59:28.

yanko

Canon EOS-5D Mark II

10/13/2007 08:00:52 PM · #11

The only way I know to keep the flash firing is to reduce the power so it recycles faster. I don't suppose you have another flash or light source you can add into the mix? Two flashes set at half power would give you the maximium power of one plus the faster recycle time.

10/13/2007 08:02:25 PM · #12

First curtain sync means that the flash fires as soon as the entire sensor is exposed (first curtain has traveled all the way across the sensor, second curtain hasn't yet started to close).

Second curtain sync means that the flash fires JUST BEFORE the second curtain starts to close.

On long exposures, where motion blur becomes evident, the first curtain sync will make it appear as if the action "continued after the flash". Whereas with second curtain sync, the action will appear to have "stopped at the flash".

Remember long exposures of cars traveling towards the camera? In first curtain sync, you see a picture of the car, frozen, and then the headlights CONTINUE on "forward of the car". It looks really odd! In second curtain sync, the car appears frozen, with the headlights behind it ... as if the car had been moving forward and *then* stopped. This looks much more natural.

10/13/2007 08:04:49 PM · #13

Originally posted by Man_Called_Horse:

still one flash only.

Are you sure your QT battery is powering the flash? How long does a "full recycle" take? (set to manual, full power, fire it ... how long until ready for the next flash?)

10/13/2007 08:08:25 PM · #14

Originally posted by dwterry:

Originally posted by Man_Called_Horse:
still one flash only.

Are you sure your QT battery is powering the flash? How long does a "full recycle" take? (set to manual, full power, fire it ... how long until ready for the next flash?)

its all plugged in.

lights are on.

lcd on 580.

I think so.

10/13/2007 08:10:15 PM · #15

Originally posted by yanko:

Just the one light that doesn't require mobile power.

Nikon AF-S Nikkor 70-200mm f/2.8G ED VR II

10/13/2007 08:13:11 PM · #16

Got something

Put flash onto ETTl, zoom on 105mm, and put it to the little squigly upside down arrow.

Got 4 flashs.

MattO

Nikon D4

10/13/2007 08:37:12 PM · #17

Originally posted by Man_Called_Horse:

Got something

Put flash onto ETTl, zoom on 105mm, and put it to the little squigly upside down arrow.

Got 4 flashs.

Yeah the 3 arrows isnt hss. I think you found your problem. Just curious have you read the manual on the 580EX? And have you set the custom functions right?

MattO

Canon EF-S 18-55mm f/3.5-5.6 II

10/13/2007 09:12:24 PM · #18

Originally posted by MattO:

Originally posted by Man_Called_Horse:
Got something

Put flash onto ETTl, zoom on 105mm, and put it to the little squigly upside down arrow.

Got 4 flashs.

Yeah the 3 arrows isnt hss. I think you found your problem. Just curious have you read the manual on the 580EX? And have you set the custom functions right?

MattO

Can't find the manual, hence the reason why I am playing.

Went through the custom functions on my camera and didn't see what you were talking about. Did I miss it?

surfdabbler

Canon EOS-5D

10/13/2007 10:19:51 PM · #19

Recycle time is only one issue. Everything mentioned will help by reducing the necessary power for each flash. Closer subject, higher ISO, tighter flash zoom. I find zoom makes a big difference to the required flash power, especially on a crop-sensor where the default zoom of the flash will actually be wider than it needs to be, and especially for a small subject in a large frame.

The other issue is flash-bulb burnout. If you keep firing your flash too fast and hook up lots of juice to recycle it quickly, you'll risk burning out the flash unit. Maybe the 580 has protection against this, I don't know for sure, but I've heard of Nikon units burning out.

The other solution is to buy more gear. :) If you are really serious about this, you can get a couple more flashes, and there is a way to get them to fire in turn, so each flash has time to recycle for a few frames before it is needed again. I don't know the exact setup for this, but with the right question, someone will be able to answer this.

(P.S. The 3 arrows is rear-sync)

surfdabbler

Canon EOS-5D

Canon EF-S 18-55mm f/3.5-5.6 II

10/13/2007 10:36:02 PM · #20

I just checked my 550 manual. I can't find anything resembling a squidgy upside-down arrow. :)

10/13/2007 11:56:14 PM · #21

I know this is stupid since I am a lighting tech and should know this stuff, but I don't.

So, a tighter flash zoom, on my 100-400mm, does that mean on my 580, keeping it at 105mm zoom is good, or should I reduce that to 80mm?

10/14/2007 12:09:32 AM · #22

Originally posted by Man_Called_Horse:

So, a tighter flash zoom, on my 100-400mm, does that mean on my 580, keeping it at 105mm zoom is good, or should I reduce that to 80mm?

Ideally you want your flash zoom to match your lens. But the flash zoom doesn't go to 400. There is some kind of "super zoom" ... I forget what it is called, but you can stick it on your flash to tighten the beam up when you know you will be shooting long. Perhaps someone else will remember and can link to it...

10/14/2007 12:13:19 AM · #23

Found it. Better Beamer

10/14/2007 09:18:20 AM · #24

Originally posted by dwterry:

Originally posted by Man_Called_Horse:
So, a tighter flash zoom, on my 100-400mm, does that mean on my 580, keeping it at 105mm zoom is good, or should I reduce that to 80mm?

Ideally you want your flash zoom to match your lens. But the flash zoom doesn't go to 400. There is some kind of "super zoom" ... I forget what it is called, but you can stick it on your flash to tighten the beam up when you know you will be shooting long. Perhaps someone else will remember and can link to it...

I am beginning to understand.

Question...If the flash is at a zoom of 105mm, and the lens is at 400mm, will the flash still engage?