Delete comment button - DPChallenge Forums

10/10/2007 09:31:39 PM · #76

Originally posted by Spazmo99:

How would you feel if you went out of your way to help someone open a door and they turned and slammed it in your face?

I hold doors all the time for people and don't even get a thanks or eye contact or anything, but I still continue to hold the door.

If someone slammed the door in my face, I'd call that person a few choice words, but would continue to hold the door for others.

10/10/2007 09:32:29 PM · #77

Originally posted by wavelength:

Originally posted by Spazmo99:

Originally posted by Louis:

Originally posted by Spazmo99:
People would simply delete any comments that differed from their own appraisal of their work regardless of how valid and well thought out.

I wouldn't do that. Would you?

No, but I can think of several who would. Thinking about it from a commenter's POV, why should I spend time writing a critique on a particular image when, if the person disagrees with my assessment, they can delete my work with a simple click? The value in such commentary goes beyond the commenter and the creator, it gives another perspective on the image for all who might view it and generally enriches the site.

That smacks a little of hubris. If they choose to discard your gift, then it is their loss, not yours or anyone other's.

Actually, the gift is not just from the comment giver to the receiver, comments benefit anyone looking at the image to see how it has been interpreted by others, good or bad.

Nikon AF Nikkor 50mm f/1.8D

10/10/2007 09:35:38 PM · #78

Originally posted by fotomann_forever:

Originally posted by Spazmo99:

How would you feel if you went out of your way to help someone open a door and they turned and slammed it in your face?

I hold doors all the time for people and don't even get a thanks or eye contact or anything, but I still continue to hold the door.

If someone slammed the door in my face, I'd call that person a few choice words, but would continue to hold the door for others.

Actually, a better example would be a gift. What if you gave someone a gift and right in front of your face, they threw it in the trash and proclaimed it totally worthless. Personally, I'd rather they either discuss it with me later in private or put it away unused.

wavelength

Nikon D300

10/10/2007 09:36:42 PM · #79

Originally posted by Spazmo99:

Originally posted by wavelength:

Originally posted by Spazmo99:
People would simply delete any comments that differed from their own appraisal of their work regardless of how valid and well thought out. It would make DPC even more self-congratulatory and Pollyannaish than they already are about their own work.

in my experience, that's the way they act at first, and then they get a little more thick-skinned and don't do that anymore. it's a natural progression, and who cares really if someone were to delete your comment? better that way than another forum spillover, IMO.

How would you feel if you went out of your way to help someone open a door and they turned and slammed it in your face?

Pretty crappy. Doesn't mean I didn't learn from the experience.

TooCool

Canon EOS-300D Rebel

Canon EF 50mm f/1.8 II

10/10/2007 09:38:56 PM · #80

Originally posted by Spazmo99:

Actually, the gift is not just from the comment giver to the receiver, comments benefit anyone looking at the image to see how it has been interpreted by others, good or bad.

This is the MAIN reason I don't like the idea...

10/10/2007 09:39:33 PM · #81

Originally posted by wavelength:

Originally posted by Spazmo99:

Originally posted by wavelength:

Originally posted by Spazmo99:
People would simply delete any comments that differed from their own appraisal of their work regardless of how valid and well thought out. It would make DPC even more self-congratulatory and Pollyannaish than they already are about their own work.

in my experience, that's the way they act at first, and then they get a little more thick-skinned and don't do that anymore. it's a natural progression, and who cares really if someone were to delete your comment? better that way than another forum spillover, IMO.

How would you feel if you went out of your way to help someone open a door and they turned and slammed it in your face?

Pretty crappy. Doesn't mean I didn't learn from the experience.

The lesson most will take away is: Don't bother.

Maybe it would be better to simply disable comments when the image is submitted. That way you wouldn't have to worry about receiving any.

10/10/2007 09:48:16 PM · #82

People who get negative comments are told all the time here to get thicker skins. Now, maybe, it's time for fair turn-around.

Maybe commenter should be the ones to get thicker skins. If it so offends you that someone deleted a comment you left then perhaps your motives were misplaced at best.

Or perhaps, John Gabriel's Greater Internet Dickwad Theory breaks down if you give the commentee a chance to remove the audience.

10/10/2007 09:48:42 PM · #83

Another way of thinking is : do I want someone to control over what I said. Since the photo was for public viewing and commenting was allowed on it, I made my comment. Now I do not want someone to delete it.
If you do not want other people to express their opinion just to not upload it to place where comments are invited.

Canon EF 24-70mm f/2.8L USM

10/10/2007 09:50:34 PM · #84

Originally posted by fotomann_forever:

Maybe commenter should be the ones to get thicker skins. If it so offends you that someone deleted a comment you left then perhaps your motives were misplaced at best.

Question is why would you be even allowed to delete the comment I (or someone made). If you put the image for public view you got to deal with the reaction to it. Good or bad. Isn't it.

MikeJ

Canon EOS-1D Mark II

10/10/2007 09:51:53 PM · #85

Although it's been indicate differently, most of you are assuming that the SC's would agree with any complaint about comments and delete them. Yet, what I'm seeing is that the SC's might not agree that they desirve to be deleted at all and may very well in fact not delete them. Does the fact that the SC might not agree they should be deleted invalidate the complaint? Is that going to make the words left that much better so they no longer bother the person that filed the complaint in the first place?

Human nature being what it is, we are all affected by words in different ways... just as we all look at an image in a different way. By not having the ability to control what we write (and change our minds if we want and deleting the comments) or control what others say about our images and deleting those that we feel are in-appropriate to the image we have on display for others to see... in effect, the SC's are saying that we, as individuals, are not adult enough to make our own dicissions. And as in any situation amoung a large group of people, there are always going to be a few that will abuse and mis-use any capability they have. Just as there are a lot of features that we currently have that a vast majority of us probably never use, even though we could.

Actually, most of the time, coming back and just leaving a period sometimes speaks volumns more than deleteting the whole message. Maybe there should be a statistic of how many posts are only made up of periods? ;)

Mike

Les_Feck

Sony SLT-A58

Sony DT 18–55mm f/3.5–5.6 SAM AF

10/10/2007 09:55:47 PM · #86

Originally posted by zeuszen:

Originally posted by jonejess:
...I've seen this argument several times previously about how much the "commentator learns by the act of commenting". The assumption, I guess, is that writing and sharing is better than just thinking about it.

I haven't seen any evidence that any comment I've ever left made a damn bit of difference to either me or the recipient. I would love anyone to share an example of how this "altruism" benefitted the commentator, especially in an instance where the recepient of the comment didn't even bother to acknowledge the comment by checking a little box.

When (you can substitute "if") it is evident from the comment that someone has actually looked at an image and considered it sincerely, chances are, IMO, that he/she is wealthier for a bit of experience already. When he goes out to articulate what he has gathered, he shares a little of it, i.e. he gives us a lil something too. If he does this a few times, he'll likely get better at both seeing and writing, and everyone's share increases, whether any boxes are checked or not.

If everything goes well, and there aren't too many yahoos, you have a bunch of tiny seeds you can use to grow a kulchur with.

I seem to recall someone using the term "pollyannaish" here. Seems appropriate. I appreciate your idealism.

But you're making it even more convoluted to my simple mind. Do you have an example of how you have viewed a comment left by person X regarding photo Y that affected you?

Nikon AF Nikkor 50mm f/1.8D

10/10/2007 09:56:08 PM · #87

Originally posted by zxaar:

Question is why would you be even allowed to delete the comment I (or someone made). If you put the image for public view you got to deal with the reaction to it. Good or bad. Isn't it.

If all commenters left comments based on the merits of the photo, I would be more than happy to agree with you. Those that leave mean-spirited comments just because ruin it though.

DPC is very lonely in it's locking comments to a photo. There is likely a very good reason why other sites haven't followed suit.

wavelength

Nikon D300

10/10/2007 09:58:46 PM · #88

Originally posted by zxaar:

Originally posted by fotomann_forever:

Maybe commenter should be the ones to get thicker skins. If it so offends you that someone deleted a comment you left then perhaps your motives were misplaced at best.

Question is why would you be even allowed to delete the comment I (or someone made). If you put the image for public view you got to deal with the reaction to it. Good or bad. Isn't it.

so what, I post a naked picture of someone I knew, done in artistic style and some creepo gets to comment in any manner they choose, and I just have to sit there and take it? no, I delete the comment(currently report said comment), and if there is no other recourse I must delete said image.

I seem to remember and incident where jmsetzler was so harrassed by anti-american bigots that his image eventually was hidden, what if he had simply been able to delete the comments, and denied the malcontents thier pleasure?

This is the type of comment being discussed. we're not talking about the random jerk who won't listen to criticism, we're talking about the random jerks who take it upon themselves to be jerks.

why everyone here who is fairly reasonable seems to be taking this personally is way beyond me. if you don't make stupid, unsavory, or otherwise belligerent comments, you should have no qualms with this addition.

10/10/2007 10:05:31 PM · #89

Originally posted by fotomann_forever:

Originally posted by zxaar:

Question is why would you be even allowed to delete the comment I (or someone made). If you put the image for public view you got to deal with the reaction to it. Good or bad. Isn't it.

If all commenters left comments based on the merits of the photo, I would be more than happy to agree with you. Those that leave mean-spirited comments just because ruin it though.

DPC is very lonely in it's locking comments to a photo. There is likely a very good reason why other sites haven't followed suit.

I do agree on the reason you wish them to be deleted. I just feel that along with those rude comments, some of the unflattering comments would also be deleted. Which are honest.

There must be a middle ground to it.
Or as you said before there should be a way to rate the commenter too. In a way of giving it back to the commenter. So if someone gives an out of line comments he gets his ratings lower. Filtering out the trolls.

10/10/2007 10:06:45 PM · #90

It is a ToS violation to abuse site features.

Let's say, the comment gets hidden as soon as the photog hits the delete button, but then the comment is reported to SC. If SC finds a user abusing the button too often, they have it taken away or some other punishment?

Does that make any nay-sayers happier?

10/10/2007 10:07:47 PM · #91

Originally posted by zxaar:

Or as you said before there should be a way to rate the commenter too. In a way of giving it back to the commenter. So if someone gives an out of line comments he gets his ratings lower. Filtering out the trolls.

I actually do like that idea... :-)

10/10/2007 10:10:59 PM · #92

Originally posted by wavelength:

why everyone here who is fairly reasonable seems to be taking this personally is way beyond me. if you don't make stupid, unsavory, or otherwise belligerent comments, you should have no qualms with this addition.

If it works ideally it is really good.
I remember once a very well known person on this site put a nude in a thread for public opinion. I spent 15 minutes writing a comment which I thought was well written and talked about what I liked and did not like about the picture.
After writing about a page. What I saw is this photog did not mark my comment as helpful. Yet he could mark comments above and below mine as helpful (these were all - wonderful pic comments).

So moral of the story, if the commenter thinks it is wellthought comment, it does not gurrantee that reader thinks it is well thought. He is free for his own interpretation.

Sony DT 18–55mm f/3.5–5.6 SAM AF

10/10/2007 10:12:39 PM · #93

Originally posted by fotomann_forever:

Originally posted by zxaar:

Or as you said before there should be a way to rate the commenter too. In a way of giving it back to the commenter. So if someone gives an out of line comments he gets his ratings lower. Filtering out the trolls.

I actually do like that idea... :-)

yes I too, because then it is bothways. And everyone soon knows that who keeps making personal attacks.

Les_Feck

Sony SLT-A58

10/10/2007 10:13:34 PM · #94

Originally posted by fotomann_forever:

Does that make any nay-sayers happier?

Is that the level of censorship that you would be comfortable with? That is the question isn't it?

Louis

Nikon D800

Nikon AF Nikkor 85mm f/1.8D

10/10/2007 10:42:53 PM · #95

Originally posted by jonejess:

Originally posted by fotomann_forever:

Does that make any nay-sayers happier?

Is that the level of censorship that you would be comfortable with? That is the question isn't it?

No, that's not the question. Censorship is practiced by governments or other powerful entities (such as religious groups), and is the witholding of information from the public for purposes of disinformation, control, or the willful direction of (im)moral values. People often claim censorship exists in scenarios such as that outlined in this discussion, when it does not.

Edit sp.

Message edited by author 2007-10-10 22:43:46.

Les_Feck

Sony SLT-A58

Sony DT 18–55mm f/3.5–5.6 SAM AF

10/10/2007 10:57:04 PM · #96

Originally posted by Louis:

Originally posted by jonejess:

Originally posted by fotomann_forever:

Does that make any nay-sayers happier?

Is that the level of censorship that you would be comfortable with? That is the question isn't it?

No, that's not the question. Censorship is practiced by governments or other powerful entities (such as religious groups), and is the witholding of information from the public for purposes of disinformation, control, or the willful direction of (im)moral values. People often claim censorship exists in scenarios such as that outlined in this discussion, when it does not.

Edit sp.

Don't confuse censorship with a capital "C" with censorship in general. I haven't.

If you walk into my living room and drop your pants, don't criticize me for commenting on your shortcomings.

GeneralE

Canon PowerShot S3 IS

Canon 12x IS USM (S3 IS built-in Lens) -- 36-432mm (35mm EQ)

10/10/2007 11:01:51 PM · #97

Originally posted by Louis:

... for purposes of disinformation, control, or the willful direction of (im)moral values.

Someone viewing your photo which has had comments removed by you will be receiving distorted and inaccurate information about the public's reaction to it -- the photo's comment section would essentially be a lie.

If you post a photo here for comments, then I think you have to take the favorable with the unfavorable -- unless a comment violates site rules I see no reason why everyone visiting the site shouldn't be able to read it.

It will be far worse for us to have to judge if a comment was "inappropriately removed" by the photographer than to tell if the original comment violates the site TOS.

wavelength

Nikon D300

Nikon AF Nikkor 50mm f/1.8D

10/10/2007 11:25:32 PM · #98

Originally posted by GeneralE:

Originally posted by Louis:
... for purposes of disinformation, control, or the willful direction of (im)moral values.

Someone viewing your photo which has had comments removed by you will be receiving distorted and inaccurate information about the public's reaction to it -- the photo's comment section would essentially be a lie.

If you post a photo here for comments, then I think you have to take the favorable with the unfavorable -- unless a comment violates site rules I see no reason why everyone visiting the site shouldn't be able to read it.

It will be far worse for us to have to judge if a comment was "inappropriately removed" by the photographer than to tell if the original comment violates the site TOS.

Simple answer, there are no inappropriate cases for removal. If you don't like it, too bad. If the decision were to be made to include the delete button, then the photographer has ultimate control.

1. This frees site council from the sillyness of any untoward situations.
2. this empowers users over the site governance.
3. more of a "no shoes, no shirt, no service" policy for the site. photographers reserve the right to remove comments at will on personal photographs.

In my mind, this would NOT apply to challenge pictures. That would, I think, be completely fair. Personal uploads get the deference of being able to personally control "content", while images up for contest are required to stand the full brunt of the positive and critical assessments. If the photographer doesn't like it, too bad.

fair enough?

And still, I want to be able to delete my comments, just as I can delete my pictures if I so choose, barring challenge entries of course.

Louis

Nikon D800

Nikon AF Nikkor 85mm f/1.8D

10/10/2007 11:26:15 PM · #99

Originally posted by GeneralE:

That's assuming that I would remove comments to create a distorted view because my feelings are easily hurt, or some other such baseless accusation. I wouldn't, and neither would any of the other proponents of this suggestion (see above).

Originally posted by GeneralE:

If you post a photo here for comments, then I think you have to take the favorable with the unfavorable...

Nobody is arguing against this point. See above.

Originally posted by GeneralE:

It will be far worse for us to have to judge if a comment was "inappropriately removed" by the photographer than to tell if the original comment violates the site TOS.

Very few are arguing for a halfway solution that doesn't give up complete editorial control to the photograph's owner. I'm certainly not.