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Canon EF 100mm f/2.8L Macro IS USM

09/27/2007 10:28:09 PM · #726

Originally posted by levyj413:

Wow. Imagine if we discussed photography with the apparent passion driven by which browser we use. And I say that as someone whose job centers on Web site creation.

I know, I should have moved that to the Rant board, but I couldn't leave it untouched here. I get enough technology at work.

Here's a photography question: why is it that when I run "Save for Web" in Photoshop CS2, the picture becomes suddenly very washed out? I see so many vibrant pictures when I'm reviewing Team Suck entries, or when I actually have time to vote on images, that I figure there must be something wrong with what I'm doing. Before I get to "Save for Web," I've already switched from 16bit to 8, resized the image, and am basically just flattening layers and dropping JPEG quality. In my most recent entry, which for obvious reasons I can't give any clue about its content, there's a remarkable difference between the PSD and the "Web" file, even at 100% JPG quality.

How do I keep color in my images?

krnodil

Canon EOS-5D Mark II

09/27/2007 10:45:53 PM · #727

Originally posted by meyers:

Originally posted by levyj413:
Wow. Imagine if we discussed photography with the apparent passion driven by which browser we use. And I say that as someone whose job centers on Web site creation.

I know, I should have moved that to the Rant board, but I couldn't leave it untouched here. I get enough technology at work.

Here's a photography question: why is it that when I run "Save for Web" in Photoshop CS2, the picture becomes suddenly very washed out? I see so many vibrant pictures when I'm reviewing Team Suck entries, or when I actually have time to vote on images, that I figure there must be something wrong with what I'm doing. Before I get to "Save for Web," I've already switched from 16bit to 8, resized the image, and am basically just flattening layers and dropping JPEG quality. In my most recent entry, which for obvious reasons I can't give any clue about its content, there's a remarkable difference between the PSD and the "Web" file, even at 100% JPG quality.

How do I keep color in my images?

Sometimes "save for web" washes out colors in mine, sometimes not. For those times when it does happen, I go back to my resized copy and add a hue/sat layer and bump the sat by a small amount, usually 5-15% - then I save that file version for the web. It's not precise, but I usually get pretty close.

I believe others have mentioned before another way to get colors right - lab color or something, maybe I'm misremembering - but I don't know much about that approach.

09/27/2007 11:10:28 PM · #728

Good question, Rob. I'm using CS3 now, and when I 'save for web' the color often comes out with more red and I have to go back and readjust the hue/sat. I've been trying to figure out why. I don't remember having that problem with CS2. The problem happens more often when I start with a RAW file, and not as often when I start with a JPG. I am wondering if it has to do with the color setting: Adobe RGB vs sRGB.

09/27/2007 11:11:37 PM · #729

Originally posted by meyers:

IE is most certainly not standards compliant, unless you mean Microsoft standards. A long time strategy of Microsoft is to take a standard and extend it, and by extend I mean break it. Since IE (once it started getting bundled with Windows) has such a large market share, page designers have a choice of writing to a published standard to coding to Micorsoft's "extensions." The pages which are not web compliant would be those "tuned" to a particular version of IE.

There is a huge debate about IE7's compliance and I will certainly bow to your aforementioned credentials. The bottom line for me is that you are bound and determined that it is wrong for code monkeys to write code to work in IE, when over 80% of web users actually use it. So whether IE7 meets the technical standards for displaying CSS etc becomes a mute point if most web pages will not display properly in a Gecko powered browser. Before you jump on the "anti IE bandwagon" consider that making it backwards compatable is making changing the trident browser engine to be compliant very difficult. If IE is so brutal why can you get your Netscape browser to render in either the gecko or trident engine?

Originally posted by meyers:

This is another instance of Microsoft being very late in figuring things out. Firefox (and other browsers) have had tabs for a long time, and for Firefox there are thousands of free plugins available. IE? Not so many, and many of those are not free.

Late or not, you originally stated that IE did not use tabs, which it does. You are totally correct however that since MS is very stingy with their code, there are very few plug ins for it.

Originally posted by meyers:

I strongly disagree. If you want to see the web as Microsoft wants you to see it, by all means stick with IE. If you want a browser that renders pages faster (which has nothing to do with the fact you have broadband, which 80% of web users do not have), one which updates itself and any plugins you have installed, and is in general easier to use (as judged by several analysts). pick Firefox.

By "as Microsoft wants you to see it" is equal to "as 80% of the world's internet users will see your page". So if you want to build a page that 80% of the internet users in the world will not see, then by all means ignore IE.

As for broadband usage, over 80% of American home users have it, over 90% for work use. For us Canadians, over 90% of home users have broadband. Keep in mind that the USA is not even close to leading the technology world in broadband use. See here.

Anyways this is way boring for the majority of TS, so I will let this discussion die. However I do thank you for an informative and entertaining exhange. :)

Ernie

09/27/2007 11:18:00 PM · #730

Originally posted by JuliBoc:

You are correct. You can set your camera to use one of many colour settings. When you are editing in PS it will likely continue to use whatever setting was imported with the image. If you are going to be using the image for stock sale etc, mostly non home printers, then Adobe RGB is a better colour space. However the web uses sRGB which is a smaller colourspace. when you use "save for web" it converts the image to sRGB automatically. That can make your image lose it's vibrancy.

For someone that can explain it better than I can, check out this.

Tamron SP AF 17-50mm f/2.8 Di II LD Aspherical (IF) for Nikon

09/27/2007 11:26:19 PM · #731

Here is a diagram that shows the colourspace situation pretty well. When CS shifts your colour to fit in the smaller sRGB space, it can cause problems. See diagram.

levyj413

Apple iPhone 15 Pro Max

09/28/2007 01:03:55 AM · #732

Originally posted by meyers:

How do I keep color in my images?

Basssman gave a good explanation of why it's a problem.

In your Raw converter, look for where it sets the color space, and be sure it's sRGB if you're planning to use the image on the Web. At least in my copy of Adobe Capture Raw, it stays the same from one image to the next. The setting is in the lower left corner of the ACR window.

If you already have an image that's giving you trouble, and you're using PS, go to edit->convert to profile. Look at the source profile - if it's Adobe RGB, you might have trouble with save for Web. Just convert it right there to sRGB.

Message edited by author 2007-09-28 01:04:07.

Bruce_the_Robert

Nikon D7000

Nikon AF-S Zoom-Nikkor 70-300mm f/4.5-5.6G IF-ED VR

09/28/2007 01:26:19 AM · #733

Originally posted by levyj413:

Originally posted by meyers:
How do I keep color in my images?

Basssman gave a good explanation of why it's a problem.

In your Raw converter, look for where it sets the color space, and be sure it's sRGB if you're planning to use the image on the Web. At least in my copy of Adobe Capture Raw, it stays the same from one image to the next. The setting is in the lower left corner of the ACR window.

If you already have an image that's giving you trouble, and you're using PS, go to edit->convert to profile. Look at the source profile - if it's Adobe RGB, you might have trouble with save for Web. Just convert it right there to sRGB.

Another thing you can do if you want to work in Adobe RGB (so you don't need to convert back to sRGB when someone wants a copy printed) is to convert the color space to sRGB before you save for web. As a last step, before you click "save for web", do as Jeffrey explained (go to "edit" and then choose -- way down on the list -- "convert to profile". Choose sRGB).

What I always do then is look at the image and hit "ctrl-z" a few times (that's "undo last edit" for those who are not fascinated with keyboard shortcuts the way I am). Once turns the profile change off, next time turns it back on (undo only works once in CS because of its use of the "history" function). I compare. Any changes? If so, I play (hue/sat, whatever it takes); if not, I save for web and am done.

Once you have your jpg you have all you'll need for the web (unless you need to resize larger, which probably means starting workflow again anyway, and you just add this step to the end of that process anyway), and can leave the original in another color space.

One last thing; before saving for web, you should be "done" with your image, ie for example, you should flatten your image. Any "processing" that save for web has to do can (though not necessarily will) alter the image colors (and I've read even flattening can do this, though it's never happened to me).

Now, if someone could just teach me -- I don't mean explain to me here or point me to a tutorial, but come to my home and teach me and make sure I get it right :P -- how to properly dodge and burn, I'd be all set. I have yet to do that in any way that makes my images look other than gray or weird in spots . . . :)

Best,

Rob

Message edited by author 2007-09-28 01:26:54.

mist

Canon EOS-60D

Canon EF 28-135mm f/3.5-5.6 IS USM

09/28/2007 10:28:59 AM · #734

Forgive me team suckers for I have sinned, it's been bleeding ages since my last submission.

Sadly with my house-sale going through I lack the time and energy to focus on photography just now.

If the other team-entropians want to sideline me in favour of a fresh face who actually submits entries, then I quite understand.

Normal service shall hopefully be resumed by November at latest.

Keep on sucking!

raish

Olympus C-2500L

Nikon AF Nikkor 50mm f/1.4D

09/28/2007 10:37:50 AM · #735

If your house sale has, in fact, gone through, then whoopee and we can all smile about that.

I've just entered my cat among the toolkit picture

in Tools of the Trade at JPG wanna go cheat it up some?

Message edited by author 2007-09-28 10:38:23.

Canon EF 24-105mm f/4.0L IS

09/28/2007 10:56:53 AM · #736

Thanks all for the color space question and info. I think with the color info from

Basssman7 and PS info from

Levyj413, I just needed to figure out a workflow to ensure that I could both print and display on the web. I was coming up with something quite similar to the workflow outlined by

Rheverly, and I'm glad he confirmed my ideas. Now to try out all this new knowledge. :)

Message edited by author 2007-09-28 10:58:06.

Melethia

Canon EOS-80D

09/28/2007 11:01:55 AM · #737

By the way, Raish's picture is this one and you have to sign in to vote. :-)

Nikon AF Nikkor 50mm f/1.4D

09/28/2007 11:07:58 AM · #738

Voted for Raish's photo.

Mine is hereif you could help me out that would be great.

thanks.

raish

Olympus C-2500L

09/28/2007 11:19:25 AM · #739

Thanks :)

Nikon AF-S Nikkor 28-300mm f3.5-5.6G ED VR

09/28/2007 01:25:55 PM · #740

My votes are in.

NikonJeb

Nikon D850

09/28/2007 03:49:03 PM · #741

Originally posted by meyers:

Here's a photography question: why is it that when I run "Save for Web" in Photoshop CS2, the picture becomes suddenly very washed out? I see so many vibrant pictures when I'm reviewing Team Suck entries, or when I actually have time to vote on images, that I figure there must be something wrong with what I'm doing. Before I get to "Save for Web," I've already switched from 16bit to 8, resized the image, and am basically just flattening layers and dropping JPEG quality. In my most recent entry, which for obvious reasons I can't give any clue about its content, there's a remarkable difference between the PSD and the "Web" file, even at 100% JPG quality.

How do I keep color in my images?

I don't use the PSD document at all, and I'm too much of a 'tard to know how to work layers, and I have the same problem with washing colors on my jpeg files. I work with RAW originally, but the color shifts I make there are so far away from the Save for Web step that I don't see how it would affect it. I do work in the RAW processor first, but there are an awful lot of adjustments after that before I'm ready to save.

I guess I should state for the record that I have no idea how you're supposed to do this stuff as I have just been doing trial and error since I got it. I find stuff by accident most of the time. I wish I had the time to take a course at a community college or something.

I have gotten to the point where I do about six different iterations of the same shot at various sizes and shades, 'cause sometimes, I find that maybe I had a little too much saturation in an image for the result I got.

So sometimes I end up with a 268, a 210, a 433, and a 147KB image all with varying outside dimensions and shades.

When I pop 'em all open and go back and forth opening them (With my IE6 multiple broswers!) I then decide which one I like best. Sometimes they change just the very slightest against the blue background on DPC versus the grey background on my CS2......then I adjust sizes et al 'til I get what I want.

Is there any way to change the background of my CS2 to that kind of "Williamsburg Blue" that DPC uses??????

Oh.....I've got an entry in that I put up on the 20th that I'm *REALLY* happy with, which probably means I'll get b*tch-slapped and be whiny and cranky all week during the voting......8>)

BTW, it must be a full moon.......there sure is a lot of ugliness and arguing in the forums.

Bruce_the_Robert

Nikon D7000

Nikon AF-S Zoom-Nikkor 70-300mm f/4.5-5.6G IF-ED VR

09/28/2007 05:12:22 PM · #742

Originally posted by JuliBoc:

My votes are in.

Mine, too.

levyj413

Apple iPhone 15 Pro Max

Tamron SP AF 17-50mm f/2.8 Di II LD Aspherical (IF) for Nikon

09/28/2007 05:19:53 PM · #743

Originally posted by rheverly:

Originally posted by JuliBoc:
My votes are in.

Mine, too.

Moi, aussi. If you like mine, could ya vote for it, too?

krnodil

Canon EOS-5D Mark II

Canon EF 100mm f/2.8L Macro IS USM

09/28/2007 05:26:57 PM · #744

My first request for validation and I passed the test. Whew! Even when the wait for an answer isn't long, it sure feels long. :)

colorcarnival

Olympus OM-D E-M1 Mark III

Olympus 45mm f/1.8 M.Zuiko Digital

09/28/2007 05:42:31 PM · #745

Originally posted by krnodil:

My first request for validation and I passed the test. Whew! Even when the wait for an answer isn't long, it sure feels long. :)

yay Karen! Should be interesting to see if your scores go up some now with the magic "validated" sign in place lol.

colorcarnival

Olympus OM-D E-M1 Mark III

Olympus 45mm f/1.8 M.Zuiko Digital

09/28/2007 05:42:55 PM · #746

ok I got my jpgmag votes in for three people, did I miss anyone?

krnodil

Canon EOS-5D Mark II

Canon EF 100mm f/2.8L Macro IS USM

09/28/2007 05:48:28 PM · #747

Originally posted by colorcarnival:

Originally posted by krnodil:
My first request for validation and I passed the test. Whew! Even when the wait for an answer isn't long, it sure feels long. :)

yay Karen! Should be interesting to see if your scores go up some now with the magic "validated" sign in place lol.

It's not doing too shabby right now at 5.7-ish, but sure, I'll take a bump if they got 'em. :)

levyj413

Apple iPhone 15 Pro Max

Tamron SP AF 17-50mm f/2.8 Di II LD Aspherical (IF) for Nikon

09/28/2007 06:22:29 PM · #748

Originally posted by colorcarnival:

ok I got my jpgmag votes in for three people, did I miss anyone?

Did you go set up 29 ghost accounts and vote for each of us from each of them? ;)

ephln

Canon EOS-400D Rebel XTi

Canon EF-S 18-55mm f/3.5-5.6 II

09/28/2007 06:58:13 PM · #749

Hoping one person could give me a second opinion on my Free Study entry while I still have the time to change it. I took several of a particular subject and picked the one I thought came out the most interesting.
I understand...if that person agrees not to vote on it...it's kosher.
Thanks :)

Message edited by author 2007-09-28 18:58:49.