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 09/01/2003 11:58:01 PM · #1
All of my friends and family that I show my better shots to say I should consider becoming a photographer given my natural knack at it. So here I am, considering photography as a profession...

If your a professional photographer, what kind of stuff do you do (weddings, landscapes, etc.)? How much are you making? How'd you get started?

I've always loved architecture and drafting, and have always wanted and planned on drafting. After 15 years of expecting I'd do one thing, I'm thinking that I would love to go into photography.
 09/02/2003 12:43:28 AM · #2
The question is what gives you pleasure? Shooting people, weddings, outdoors, animals? Find what you like to shoot, or you will not wantto do it. I like the outdoors and nature/animals. I do long hikes, and backpacking trips, before I really got so interested in photography at the point I am now. Technically I would be called a professional because I have been paid for a few portrait sessions I have done, but in my opinion I am not. I combined outdoors and portraits for those 2 sessions and came out great. I am now considering this area of work. and also doing this on the trail with people I meet. we shall see
 09/02/2003 01:29:30 AM · #3
For me, it's not a question of whether or not I'd like it. Knowing what my talents and hobbies can get me is important to know for me.

How'd you come across these sessions?
 09/02/2003 03:02:20 AM · #4
My friend runs a photo studio in Singapore. He started out as a professional photographer as a hobby and did a fair bit of studio makeover shots.

However, as time goes by, his range of services increases. He now do wedding, makeovers, product catalog shots, and the last I heard, he's going into graphics' design.

He's not making a lot of money but just trying to make end meet.

I guess you really have to evaluate the demand of the services that you can provide and look for organic growth in which u can brunch into.

As much as we all hate to... When starting a "business" regardless of any scale... we have to do a feasibility on how workable the idea is ... From that you'll have a brief plan of how you'll run your business...

Have you evaluate the objectives you wish to achieve?
:o)

Just my 2 cents worth... Hope this helps.. :o)

Cheers

Regards,
Eric Wong.

Originally posted by maranelloboy:
For me, it's not a question of whether or not I'd like it. Knowing what my talents and hobbies can get me is important to know for me.

How'd you come across these sessions?
 09/02/2003 03:08:57 AM · #5
Kyle - do you have a web site so we can take a look at some of your photo's !!
 09/02/2003 03:51:26 AM · #6
One of the sessions was by word of mouth, from a friends wife (I did a session with her family later), she had talked with a friend that wanted some done, and gave them my number and then I sent them to my website to look at regular photos I had shot. Then we scheduled a day. the second one I did was the family friend. Word of mouth may be the best way for me.
there is a site (can't remember) and ads in the back of photo mags (I sent for one out of OUtdoor Photographer) by a Pam and her husband, that have a "system" you could look into also. I have not ordered any of this yet, not enough cash yet, but I am seriously thinking about it.
the ad goes something like, make $2000 in a weekend type of thing.
 09/02/2003 09:12:15 AM · #7
I was a pro photographer before I went into engineering. It can be tough sometimes, especially if you're having a dry spell where clients aren't calling, or, when you have more clients than you can possibly book and still meet their deadlines.

I got a bachelors degree in applied art and went to work for a photographer as an assistant. I printed, developed film and carried stuff. He did all kinds of work; editorial, weddings, commercial, catalog, portraits, sports. After a while, he sent me out to shoot some of the smaller, regular jobs on my own while still assisting on the large jobs. The best part of this was I was able to learn more about the business of photography before moving out on my own. You might want to see if a local photographer needs an assistant, maybe just part-time. That would help you get a feeling for what the business of photography is like without all of the risk associated with being in business for yourself.

09/02/2003 09:30:51 AM · #8
I agree with the "do what you love" line of thinking. I suppose that you have to have a firm grip on how much money you need to live vs. what you can expect to make taking pics. I doubt if there are very many photographers that truly do nothing else and make a really decent living (as in- can afford a mortgage and other payments). Like Spazmo99's experiences, work within the industry, perhaps. I knew a guy that spent summers doing a sidewalk business in a resort town, where he dressed period late 1890's and took pics with a 4x5 box camera. He'd shoot all morning (portraits, mostly) then spend the early afternoon in the lab, then be at a certain place to meet his clients later in the day for delivery. He made fairly serious money doing this. Often several hundred dollars per day (7 days a week).
Another person photographed cattle for the owner.. not sure why, but it paid.
Anyway, my point is this... use your imagination. There are alternatives to the somewhat boring 'wedding' jobs.
good luck..
 09/02/2003 02:09:05 PM · #9
Originally posted by agwright:
Kyle - do you have a web site so we can take a look at some of your photo's !!


Not really. I've uploaded a few pictures onto dpportfolio. I guess I'll start getting more of my stuff on there.

Originally posted by Spazmo99:
I was a pro photographer before I went into engineering. It can be tough sometimes, especially if you're having a dry spell where clients aren't calling, or, when you have more clients than you can possibly book and still meet their deadlines.

I got a bachelors degree in applied art and went to work for a photographer as an assistant. I printed, developed film and carried stuff. He did all kinds of work; editorial, weddings, commercial, catalog, portraits, sports. After a while, he sent me out to shoot some of the smaller, regular jobs on my own while still assisting on the large jobs. The best part of this was I was able to learn more about the business of photography before moving out on my own. You might want to see if a local photographer needs an assistant, maybe just part-time. That would help you get a feeling for what the business of photography is like without all of the risk associated with being in business for yourself.


I passed a studio a couple days ago and had the idea of going in there looking for work. Haven't had the time yet (later today I will). Thanks for the suggestion on what to look for.
 09/02/2003 02:34:03 PM · #10
Always take your criticism from friends and family with a grain of salt. Its great that they think you have a real knack for it and think you do really well. BUT their opinions of your stuff is always going to be watered down. Because they say that your stuff is really good, don't let it go to your head... It doesn't mean it isn't good stuff, it very well could be.

I had this conversation yesterday evening with a friend of mine (who came over to get portraits of his baby done). He asked me where I was going with this. I have my primitive "studio" in the dining room and some primitive lights and stuff. I told him I was not planning on quitting my job and becoming a professional photographer. I gave him 2 really good reasons why. #1 - You really have to keep busy if you want to make any money at it. A month with few shoots means a month with little food. #2 - I never want to end up hating something I love to do so much. If it became real work, I think it could come to that.

I told him that for me to be "pro", I'd be selling out to do things that I don't really care for, at least right now. Weddings and portraits don't seem like all that much fun. Portraits are something that I would like to get good at though, so I can take some for my friends and their children and maybe even make a little sideline money at it, but to make any real money, I need practice and better equipment. If I could do some portraits a little on the weekends and just make up for my investments, that'd be plenty for me.

For whatever reason, I've ended up getting some work though - 2 people's senior pictures, and 3 portrait sessions, possibly 4 now that I have to do. And this is a pretty busy month already. But if I can make a few bucks doing it I'll be happy. I'd like to at least make enough to cover getting some of my own stuff printed for a portfolio.

From Saturday
From Last Sunday
Also From Last Sunday

I figure I can do my friends' kids for cheap and to build my portfolio a little. Who knows, maybe I could make some $$$$ ?! It sure does keep me real busy though...

Good Luck - Bob
 09/02/2003 03:05:02 PM · #11
Bob,

I'm just starting back into photography but I'd like to develop a business that I can retire into over the next 15-20 years. My career affords me the time and finances to play at photography so I'm just beginning to build a studio and a decent gallery. I'm focusing on portraits and landscapes as I figure I'll get enough divergent subjects to not burn out on either particular set for awhile. Where did you get your in-house equipment for your studio? I picked up a halogen work lamp (about 500 watts) at Lowes for around $35. I know some of the softboxes and light sets are upwards of $500 and I'm not ready to drop that yet (not for several months unless something pays off). I noticed your sheepskin that the baby was laying on and wondered where you found it and how much you spent.

Thanks for your help in finding articles to use in a home studio.

Kev

09/02/2003 08:11:21 PM · #12
Kevin Riggs - Here are my Halogen light rigs (from Lowe's, umbrellas from B&H photo). Dual and a Single . I don't know where the wooly thing came from, my sister in law brought it over (its her kid in the pics). My background stand is made from 1" PVC. I like doing portraits, but I don't know if I'd want to make a career out of it. I really need to get better at it. Realistically, I need better equipment in terms of lighting. My shutter speeds are pretty darn slow. Maybe one day...

Maybe that'll help you. Crabappl3 has a photo of the umbrella holders. If you need a picture and can't get a hold of him, I'll snap a few of mine. They are roughly the same.

Take care and good luck - Bob

09/02/2003 10:01:47 PM · #13
Howdie;

The thing that seperates the good ones form the best is commitment.

I work in the print industry. I am an advertising editor for a print property in a media conglomerate.

I work with photographers everyday and I love it. I get to even direct some photo shoots. BUT>>>>> I doubt I would like being a photographer full time even though I have training and an interest.

First, most of the photographers don't make much money in comparison to other professions with equal training so if you like money photography is not the most lucrative 90% of the time. ( I have a kid going to college in a couple of years).

Second, Photography as a profession means compromise most of the time. You have to submit yourself to people like me who tell you what to shoot, what sucks (even if you like it) and what sells.

But....if you LOVE photography, can take criticism with a grain of salt, don't mind driving old cars while your friends drive new ones and can live with the professional demands..it's a great way of life ...;-)

The life of an artist is not without it's risk.

09/07/2003 07:25:59 AM · #14
Here's a interesting article I recently came across that gives a perhaps 2 sided view of things. Depending on where you stand, you might already strongly agree or this might take the rose coloured lenses off the entire issue.

//www.luminous-landscape.com/columns/sm-03-03-23.shtml

"" We amateurs who shoot for ourselves have it easy. We can do "professional" work if we want to. In fact, 75% of the photographers who call themselves "pros" really aren't ΓΆ€” they're just people who get paid for their work every now and then. That doesn't make them pros. A pro, by my definition, is somebody who works full time at photography and makes 80% of his living selling his pictures. We amateurs can also work for ourselves, find our own subjects, follow our own interests. And of course we can shoot anything at all. Portraits, snapshots, architecture, still life, landscapes, whatever.

Amateurs can shoot anything they want to, including the occasional still life.
Every now and then, I hear some amateur musing about how he's contemplating a "career change" to professional photography. I've got to admit, it makes my blood run cold. Few professions are more mysterious to amateurs. First of all, the work is about 70% marketing. If you're not good at marketing, or you don't enjoy it, or you aren't willing to do it, you're not going to get very far.

It's also about positioning. I remember one pathetic letter I got from a photo student when I was working at the magazine. In it, he said that he was in his fourth year of photography school, and he intended to make his living as a nature photographer when he graduated. He said he hadn't done much nature photography yet, because he hadn't been able to afford to travel, but that I could use the pictures he did have. He sent along six transparencies, all humdrum snaps of the same nondescript mountain. Along with it, he had included an eight-page contract, specifying every parameter of usage and payment you can imagine.

The first thing that "positioning" means is that you've got to make sure there's a market for what you want to do. Nature photography is so competitive and cutthroat that only a few remarkable photographers who also happen to be remarkable businesspeople can prosper in it. That kid who wrote to me didn't stand a snowflake's chance in a roaring furnace. There are plenty of people out there with thousands and thousands of excellent stock nature photographs who aren't yet making a living at it.

I've done an awful lot of portraits over the years, sometimes for pay, sometimes not. That doesn't make me a professional.
The other thing that "positioning" means is specialization. Many professionals fail because they refuse to pigeonhole themselves. They believe (usually with justification) that they are widely competent and can do all kinds of work ΓΆ€” an interior this week, a portrait next week, catalog shots of industrial widgets the next. Unfortunately, that's not how buyers think. Buyers of industrial widget shots want the best industrial widget shooter, and they wouldn't dream of hiring a portraitist to do them. I once knew a guy who shot a lot of metal parts for one of his clients who was surprised when his client found another photographer for a particular job. When questioned, his buyer told him, "But you do foundry parts. That job was for automotive parts!" It's that bad.

It's About CYA
CYA ("cover your ass") is closer to how professional photo buyers typically think. You've got to remember, clients want to hire the best person for the specific job they've got. Very often, the person hiring and paying the photographer is someone who is accountable to several layers of hierarchy above him. An art director may have to answer to his account manager at the agency, who has to answer to the advertising director at the client company, who has to answer to the VP of sales. So the art director can't take a flier and say, in effect, "This kid mainly shoots rock bands and nudes of people with piercings. So what? He can probably do a good enough promo shot of the client's couches." Because then, if the VP of sales ends up hating the campaign and demands to know what idiot hired a photographer who can't take a competent picture of a couch, the director of marketing will blame the ad agency, the ad agency will blame the account manager, the account manager will blame the A.D., and the A.D. can't then turn around and cover his ass by protesting that he hired the best possible couch photographer, a guy whose couch photos are widely admired and who has shot successful campaigns for other couch manufacturers ΓΆ€” which is what he will need to be able to do under the circumstances. "I just dug the guy's concert shots of John Zorn and I wanted to hang out with him for a while" will not usually be an adequate explanation for the boss.

On a few occasions, I've been privy to the process professional photographers go through when they've tried to revamp their careers. In two of the three cases, other people (well, okay, including me) had to sit them down and convince them that most of their best work was in one particular circumscribed area, and that they should specialize and promote themselves only in that area. Their objection is that they can do "lots of things" and that they don't want to "limit themselves." But guess what? When they finally accepted the fact that they should specialize, their billings went up. In one woman's case, they went up dramatically.

"Professionals" who do "all sorts of things" are usually bottom-feeders ΓΆ€” they'll take any job that comes along, try their best to do it, succeed part of the time, fail part of the time ΓΆ€” and usually either struggle to make the bills or else work another job part-time to make ends meet. It's the pro who specializes and positions him- or herself for one particular market or clientele who is often the most successful. Even if they can do lots of different things, it's not often very wise to try to advertise that fact.

The Dry Cleaning Business
The other question I usually ask of people who want to earn a living at photography is whether they think they have the energy and acumen to make it in any small business. Could they manage their own gas station or run a dry cleaners? If the answer is yes, then they also might be able to make it as professional photographers. It's a business ΓΆ€” an entrepreneurial, high-risk business.

There's also one great downside to a professional photography practice as a business, which is that after you've established it, you really haven't created anything you can pass along to your children, because the business is limited to your own eye. Clients don't want to hire your assistant. They don't want to hire your successor. They want to hire you. So when you don't want to (or can't) work, the business stops making money.

And there's an even more basic point: how hard can you work? I don't want to generalize too much, but a photo teacher I know at one of the better schools in the country was complaining about his students recently. "They won't work," he said bluntly. I'm not saying photo students are lazy, exactly; but let's just say that some schools are not renowned for being overly demanding of their charges. Professional photography is not a "nice life," however much you might think it would be fun to be the next Galen Rowell. It's not a way to escape the nine-to-five grind. For almost everyone who is successful, a simple nine-to-five job is a life of leisure by comparison.

Please Take My Advice
My advice for people who dream about turning pro is usually "don't." And not only that, but stop dreaming about it. It's a tough, demanding business, with long hours, high pay but low yield, lots and lots of marketing to do, and not a lot of opportunity for indulging your artistic side. If you do want to turn pro, however, do yourself a favor ΓΆ€” stop taking photo courses and start taking business courses. Start doing a lot of hard research. A good place to start is to get an application package for a small business loan from the Small Business Administration. I don't recommend that you actually take out a loan, mind you, but the steps they walk you through will help you start getting a handle on what you'll need to know to start your business.

Amateurs can take pictures of any dumb thing they want to, even if you just like the light of the setting sun on an old mailbox. Would you really rather have it any other way?
More than anything, you've got to be smart about positioning and marketing. You've got to make sure there is a market for the services you want to render; you've got to have a workable strategy for appealing to that market; and you've got to know how to convince buyers within that market that you're the best person for those jobs. All that isn't easy.

Personally, I think it's a lot more fun being an amateur.""

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