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08/20/2007 09:48:56 AM · #76 |
Originally posted by ajdelaware: Also - no mattter what your budget is, there is a photographer for you. Look on craigslist, youll see photogs in the thousands and youll see them as low as 500. I saw a guy yesterday on there that charges $500 for 6 hours plus you get the cd with all your images. |
You obviously have not been reading this thread then. Please read my posts and then read your post. |
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08/20/2007 09:52:56 AM · #77 |
You wrote an epics worth of posts, and to be honest, I dont care what they say. It doesn't make what I posted any less true. As with all things in life though, you do get what you pay for, and I would say thats true with photography as well (95% of the time.) |
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08/20/2007 10:33:20 AM · #78 |
Originally posted by Matthew: Prof - I am trying to figure out exactly where you are coming from. |
Ever see someone who was again it...but now is fer it?... And just can't quit talkin about it? I think that might be where we are now. |
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08/20/2007 10:59:27 AM · #79 |
Originally posted by Prof_Fate:
Originally posted by karmat:
You know, there are people in this world that cannot afford more than 5 or 6 hundred for wedding pictures. (For real. They exist. They are not exaggerating or trying to cheat you out of $9,500.)
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I can't afford lots of things - private schools, BMWs, a lawn care service, a maid, to have my car detailed every month ... |
So, you don't think there should be public schools, Volkswagens, inexpensive lawn mowers, or cleaning supplies and carwashes available to the public? That either people pay (go into debt) for the premium product or else do without entirely? If they can't afford a $5000 photographer then they should just do without pictures? |
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08/20/2007 10:59:38 AM · #80 |
Originally posted by ajdelaware: You wrote an epics worth of posts, and to be honest, I dont care what they say. It doesn't make what I posted any less true. As with all things in life though, you do get what you pay for, and I would say thats true with photography as well (95% of the time.) |
short version -
You (or your photography) are worth what someone will pay, right?
no one will pay you more than what you ask, in photography or anything else, right?
a $10,000 photographer may or may not be a better photographer than a $500 one - he is a better salesman and business man though.
No one needs photography (food and shelter yes, pictures, no) Right?
Perhaps you think your photos are worth very little. Excuse for telling you they're not! |
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08/20/2007 11:00:53 AM · #81 |
Originally posted by GeneralE: Originally posted by Prof_Fate:
Originally posted by karmat:
You know, there are people in this world that cannot afford more than 5 or 6 hundred for wedding pictures. (For real. They exist. They are not exaggerating or trying to cheat you out of $9,500.)
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I can't afford lots of things - private schools, BMWs, a lawn care service, a maid, to have my car detailed every month ... |
So, you don't think there should be public schools, Volkswagens, inexpensive lawn mowers, or cleaning supplies and carwashes available to the public? That either people pay (go into debt) for the premium product or else do without entirely? If they can't afford a $5000 photographer then they should just do without pictures? |
WTF? Is everyone of a welfare walmart mcdonalds mentality around here or what?
Perhaps you think your photos are worth very little. Excuse for telling you they're not! |
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08/20/2007 11:01:18 AM · #82 |
I dont see what that has to do with my post. I said there is a photographer for every budget. Essentially you are saying the same thing, but saying that there is a photographer for every budget based onthat photogs self worth.
Now what if C-A-T really spelled dog. |
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08/20/2007 11:03:43 AM · #83 |
I really dont get your point at all.
Are you saying I should sell myself at $10k per shoot because I feel thats what im worth, even if the market in my area is $5k shooters? Yes its art, and yes its a matter of charging what you feel your worth, but you still have to remember that it is a business, and therefore practical business rules apply - supply and demand, market pricing, etc. You do have a little more wiggle room since its "art" but still, you can't throw the modern business model out the window.
I probably missed something somewhree, so ignore if thats the case.
Message edited by author 2007-08-20 11:09:53. |
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08/20/2007 11:16:33 AM · #84 |
I just don't understand why it has to be all about the almighty dollar and squeezing every possible one out of everyone. |
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08/20/2007 11:20:37 AM · #85 |
Originally posted by Matthew:
I see no problem with people practising on live weddings, as long as the B&G know what to expect. If the B&G either donĂ¢€™t care that much about having the perfect album, or if they cannot afford the price of a pro, then engaging a serious amateur is likely still to result in better pictures than relying solely on your guests to capture the moment between them (and I have been to that kind of wedding).
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Several bridal sources actually encourage budget minded brides to search out advanced amateurs and college students. |
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08/20/2007 11:21:37 AM · #86 |
Originally posted by BeeCee: I just don't understand why it has to be all about the almighty dollar and squeezing every possible one out of everyone. |
It doesnt. While being in business, of course the ultimate goal is to make a buck, but discretion is also key. If I normally charge $1000 (example) for a shoot, but I have a saturday that I cant fill on my schedule, if someone comes along and offers me a job for $500 that day, why not take it?! Its $500 that I would not have had otherwise. Right? |
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08/20/2007 11:24:32 AM · #87 |
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08/20/2007 11:25:40 AM · #88 |
Bottom line is.
everyone will never agree on this topic so we should....
1. Charge whatever you like. If you can make a living on $500/ wedding go for it. If you want to charge $10K go for it. What we are seeing is that there is a market for both so just pick which side you belong to.
2. If you are inexperienced and unprepared go for it anyway. If you screw up your business is done for, if you nail it your business will prosper. Just jump in the deep end and swim or drown, up to you.
3. L glass, backup gear etc... Refer to #2. If you can do the entire wedding w/ a kit lens and no flash go for it. Again you will sink or swim and its only the photog who will catch the wrath of an angry bride who will no doubt about it tell everyone who will listen how much you suck.
I personally just jumped in with no experience. I did however have backup gear and decent glass and flash. I figured it would be me who screwed this up not my camera malfunctioning. I also booked my first wedding, told them it was my first a few months in advance. I used this time to get my shit together. I studied up on flash use and practiced. Its not that hard, there is just no do overs. |
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08/20/2007 11:26:25 AM · #89 |
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Message edited by author 2007-08-20 12:05:08. |
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08/20/2007 11:27:32 AM · #90 |
Originally posted by Prof_Fate:
WTF? Is everyone of a welfare walmart mcdonalds mentality around here or what?
Perhaps you think your photos are worth very little. Excuse for telling you they're not! |
Some care more for the art than the money, I s'pose. It's pretty much like the camera/photographer debate.
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08/20/2007 11:29:49 AM · #91 |
Originally posted by ajdelaware: Originally posted by BeeCee: I just don't understand why it has to be all about the almighty dollar and squeezing every possible one out of everyone. |
It doesnt. While being in business, of course the ultimate goal is to make a buck, but discretion is also key. If I normally charge $1000 (example) for a shoot, but I have a saturday that I cant fill on my schedule, if someone comes along and offers me a job for $500 that day, why not take it?! Its $500 that I would not have had otherwise. Right? |
Because now you've devalued your services and you're now the $500 photogarpher and not the $1000 photographer you want to be and have sold yourself to be.
The bride who got a "deal" does not live in a vacuum. She's going to tell all of her friends about how you usually charge $1000, but only charged her $500. Do you think they will want to pay $1000 for something she got for $500? What about the brides you've already booked for $1000? Do you think they'll be happy about paying $1000 for the same thing she paid $500 to get? Good luck with that. |
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08/20/2007 11:30:42 AM · #92 |
I know right. HORRID!
I think you always have to remain flexible until you get to a point where your schedule is packed 6 months out, and you have no time for anything else but shooting and editing.
If I feel that im worth $5k per job, but im not getting the jobs I want, then I might have to re-examine my pricing structure.
I think ive said this a billiion times in the 2 months Ive been on here but
Sales is sales, it doesnt matter if youre selling photos, hot dogs, or copier machines. The idea behind each is the same.
The ultimate goal is to sell the value of your work, but not everyone you work with is going to want to pay that premium. Ideally, you want to be able to walk away from deals like that, because you have 30 other people knocking on your door for that weekend anyway. But more then likely, you are going to have to adjust what you are doing, make them feel like theya re getting a deal, and take the "hit" (even though whatever you make is more then you would have been making if you werent working that day)
The small victories are the ones that get you prepared for the big ones. |
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08/20/2007 11:30:52 AM · #93 |
Originally posted by BeeCee: I just don't understand why it has to be all about the almighty dollar and squeezing every possible one out of everyone. |
That kind of pisses me off. I want to get the most I can out of a client, why? because it pays my bills. Its the same as the client trying to get the most out of me for free. Im not doing this to be the philantropist photographer.
Why shouldn't we try to get as much as we can? |
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08/20/2007 11:31:13 AM · #94 |
Originally posted by ajdelaware: Originally posted by BeeCee: I just don't understand why it has to be all about the almighty dollar and squeezing every possible one out of everyone. |
It doesnt. While being in business, of course the ultimate goal is to make a buck, but discretion is also key. If I normally charge $1000 (example) for a shoot, but I have a saturday that I cant fill on my schedule, if someone comes along and offers me a job for $500 that day, why not take it?! Its $500 that I would not have had otherwise. Right? |
Right! But according to Prof, your a bad business man/woman or salemen if you do! And that isn't right. I have purposely not advertised widely until I know that I can handle the schedule of my regular job, (BTW I have a regular full time job that pays the bills right now and my photography is a sideline for me also), and the schedule of my photo sessions. I don't charge a high price like most of the others around me but I do charge on a lower average. But does that make me less of a photographer? NO! Does that make my work not as good as the next photographer? NO! Having a lower price doesn't always mean cheap. I take great care in every shoot I do and am probably more critical of myself than my clients are of me. People have budgets. If I can meet that need, why not do it. Smaller jobs add up to one of the bigger jobs. Works out for me and them so its a win win situation. Don't judge me on my price, judge me on my work.
Message edited by author 2007-08-20 11:35:08.
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08/20/2007 11:34:41 AM · #95 |
Originally posted by ajdelaware: I know right. HORRID!
I think you always have to remain flexible until you get to a point where your schedule is packed 6 months out, and you have no time for anything else but shooting and editing.
If I feel that im worth $5k per job, but im not getting the jobs I want, then I might have to re-examine my pricing structure.
I think ive said this a billiion times in the 2 months Ive been on here but
Sales is sales, it doesnt matter if youre selling photos, hot dogs, or copier machines. The idea behind each is the same.
The ultimate goal is to sell the value of your work, but not everyone you work with is going to want to pay that premium. Ideally, you want to be able to walk away from deals like that, because you have 30 other people knocking on your door for that weekend anyway. But more then likely, you are going to have to adjust what you are doing, make them feel like theya re getting a deal, and take the "hit" (even though whatever you make is more then you would have been making if you werent working that day)
The small victories are the ones that get you prepared for the big ones. |
Giving a 50% discount only shows that you believe your work is only worth half of what you charge.
You can call that a victory if you like, but it's really not. |
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08/20/2007 11:36:21 AM · #96 |
Originally posted by Jmnuggy: Im not doing this to be the philantropist photographer.
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Yeah, I wouldn't feel good being something I can't spell either, especially when it also doesn't allow me to afford an apostrophe :-P
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08/20/2007 11:38:45 AM · #97 |
Originally posted by Spazmo99: Originally posted by ajdelaware: Originally posted by BeeCee: I just don't understand why it has to be all about the almighty dollar and squeezing every possible one out of everyone. |
It doesnt. While being in business, of course the ultimate goal is to make a buck, but discretion is also key. If I normally charge $1000 (example) for a shoot, but I have a saturday that I cant fill on my schedule, if someone comes along and offers me a job for $500 that day, why not take it?! Its $500 that I would not have had otherwise. Right? |
Because now you've devalued your services and you're now the $500 photogarpher and not the $1000 photographer you want to be and have sold yourself to be.
The bride who got a "deal" does not live in a vacuum. She's going to tell all of her friends about how you usually charge $1000, but only charged her $500. Do you think they will want to pay $1000 for something she got for $500? What about the brides you've already booked for $1000? Do you think they'll be happy about paying $1000 for the same thing she paid $500 to get? Good luck with that. |
That is completely off base. he didn't devalue himself at all, he made a sale when there wouldn't normally have been one. Wedding venues offer discounted prices for Fridays and Sundays, are they devalueing themselves?
If he gets word of mouth advertising that it was a $500 gig instead of $1000, thats fine. I would just tell the next couple that they booked on a day that typically gets less traffic and made an offer, but unfortunately for the day you request, I have other offers so my price needs to stay at $1000. At least the phone rang.
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08/20/2007 11:39:44 AM · #98 |
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Message edited by author 2007-08-20 11:40:00.
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08/20/2007 11:40:21 AM · #99 |
Originally posted by Jmnuggy: Originally posted by Spazmo99: Originally posted by ajdelaware: Originally posted by BeeCee: I just don't understand why it has to be all about the almighty dollar and squeezing every possible one out of everyone. |
It doesnt. While being in business, of course the ultimate goal is to make a buck, but discretion is also key. If I normally charge $1000 (example) for a shoot, but I have a saturday that I cant fill on my schedule, if someone comes along and offers me a job for $500 that day, why not take it?! Its $500 that I would not have had otherwise. Right? |
Because now you've devalued your services and you're now the $500 photogarpher and not the $1000 photographer you want to be and have sold yourself to be.
The bride who got a "deal" does not live in a vacuum. She's going to tell all of her friends about how you usually charge $1000, but only charged her $500. Do you think they will want to pay $1000 for something she got for $500? What about the brides you've already booked for $1000? Do you think they'll be happy about paying $1000 for the same thing she paid $500 to get? Good luck with that. |
That is completely off base. he didn't devalue himself at all, he made a sale when there wouldn't normally have been one. Wedding venues offer discounted prices for Fridays and Sundays, are they devalueing themselves?
If he gets word of mouth advertising that it was a $500 gig instead of $1000, thats fine. I would just tell the next couple that they booked on a day that typically gets less traffic and made an offer, but unfortunately for the day you request, I have other offers so my price needs to stay at $1000. At least the phone rang. |
AMEN to that!
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08/20/2007 11:42:21 AM · #100 |
Originally posted by fotomann_forever: Originally posted by Jmnuggy: Im not doing this to be the philantropist photographer.
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Yeah, I wouldn't feel good being something I can't spell either, especially when it also doesn't allow me to afford an apostrophe :-P |
Seriously attacking my spelling in a forum, this isn't 8th grade english. Besides that, you need to type quick to stay involved in this thread, no time for proofreading. HA HA. |
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