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08/11/2007 04:43:33 PM · #26 |
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08/11/2007 04:46:50 PM · #27 |
I can understand both your views. But, some DPCers don't think PS should be used, although most of us use it or similar to some degree. However, to leave for such a thing seems rather like cutting off your nose to spite your face!
Perhaps there are a few rude people here, perhaps more than a few, but a thick skin is needed if you want honest critique or comments.
Why run away? Why not educate the rude people? If either of you plan to make this a career, then you had better be ready for harsher critique than you get here. It is a tough world where you have to make a stand. Get back here and work at your craft, if you like what you do, do it! Don't be dragged down by those who can't or won't do things your way. |
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08/11/2007 04:51:08 PM · #28 |
Originally posted by formerlee:
I can understand both your views. But, some DPCers don't think PS should be used, although most of us use it or similar to some degree. However, to leave for such a thing seems rather like cutting off your nose to spite your face!
Perhaps there are a few rude people here, perhaps more than a few, but a thick skin is needed if you want honest critique or comments.
Why run away? Why not educate the rude people? If either of you plan to make this a career, then you had better be ready for harsher critique than you get here. It is a tough world where you have to make a stand. Get back here and work at your craft, if you like what you do, do it! Don't be dragged down by those who can't or won't do things your way. |
if you would re-read her first comment then you would understand she isn't running away. she is very busy, and doesn't need this stress.
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08/11/2007 04:53:21 PM · #29 |
Originally posted by gi_joe05:
Originally posted by formerlee:
I can understand both your views. But, some DPCers don't think PS should be used, although most of us use it or similar to some degree. However, to leave for such a thing seems rather like cutting off your nose to spite your face!
Perhaps there are a few rude people here, perhaps more than a few, but a thick skin is needed if you want honest critique or comments.
Why run away? Why not educate the rude people? If either of you plan to make this a career, then you had better be ready for harsher critique than you get here. It is a tough world where you have to make a stand. Get back here and work at your craft, if you like what you do, do it! Don't be dragged down by those who can't or won't do things your way. |
if you would re-read her first comment then you would understand she isn't running away. she is very busy, and doesn't need this stress. |
Not how I read it! Busy is okay, no need to close account. That is running away from those who commented. Prove them wrong or run away. |
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08/11/2007 04:55:51 PM · #30 |
Originally posted by formerlee:
Originally posted by gi_joe05:
Originally posted by formerlee:
I can understand both your views. But, some DPCers don't think PS should be used, although most of us use it or similar to some degree. However, to leave for such a thing seems rather like cutting off your nose to spite your face!
Perhaps there are a few rude people here, perhaps more than a few, but a thick skin is needed if you want honest critique or comments.
Why run away? Why not educate the rude people? If either of you plan to make this a career, then you had better be ready for harsher critique than you get here. It is a tough world where you have to make a stand. Get back here and work at your craft, if you like what you do, do it! Don't be dragged down by those who can't or won't do things your way. |
if you would re-read her first comment then you would understand she isn't running away. she is very busy, and doesn't need this stress. |
Not how I read it! Busy is okay, no need to close account. That is running away from those who commented. Prove them wrong or run away. |
I guess your welcome to your thoughts... |
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08/11/2007 05:05:17 PM · #31 |
It's too bad that she feels like she has to leave.....she received alot of very nice supportive comments before and after the DQ
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08/11/2007 05:11:56 PM · #32 |
| Come on guys, if someone wants to quit something because of text on a screen...let 'em. Tissue paper doesn't make for very thick skin. |
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08/11/2007 05:19:47 PM · #33 |
People leave because people are rude. Then other people jump in, calling them babies and thin-skinned and whatnot for leaving. Congratulations, you just proved her point! You don't have to be thin-skinned to leave. You just have to sick of the bullshit. After seeing some of the comments people have left here, I don't blame her. There's a certain level of respect that should come along with criticism, and it's certainly begun to disappear around here.
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08/11/2007 05:28:37 PM · #34 |
Some people just need a:
I've actually started liking flickr a lot. A lot easier to find people interested in specific genres, which gives you a bit of isolation from those that don't like your style.
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08/11/2007 05:52:05 PM · #35 |
Originally posted by Rebecca:
People leave because people are rude. Then other people jump in, calling them babies and thin-skinned and whatnot for leaving. Congratulations, you just proved her point! You don't have to be thin-skinned to leave. You just have to sick of the bullshit. After seeing some of the comments people have left here, I don't blame her. There's a certain level of respect that should come along with criticism, and it's certainly begun to disappear around here. |
Referring to me! You obviously have no experience of the real business world of photography. If you think we should all be sucky assed, a comment how everything is rosy, then you have a shock coming. The world out there is hard, we try to be constructive, they don't! Respect is earned by working at a style and sticking with it, not by saying everyone is nasty, leave bad comments, I quit!
I have nothing personal against anyone here, I rarely leave comments, let alone rude comments. But, if you join DPC, you are open to comments, good and bad. Accept it and get on with life. It ain't the be all and end all of life.
Message edited by author 2007-08-11 17:52:28. |
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08/11/2007 05:52:23 PM · #36 |
Originally posted by Rebecca:
People leave because people are rude. Then other people jump in, calling them babies and thin-skinned and whatnot for leaving. Congratulations, you just proved her point! You don't have to be thin-skinned to leave. You just have to sick of the bullshit. After seeing some of the comments people have left here, I don't blame her. There's a certain level of respect that should come along with criticism, and it's certainly begun to disappear around here. |
I'd like to add that this is a community. While I may not be as active as some people around here, I know full well that DPC, as a community, has it's own biases and there certainly some things I'd be willing to ask about here, but other things I would go to other communities to ask because odds are better that those topics would cause an argument over their validity instead of offering any real information. But that's the way it is everywhere.
I just deleted my account as much as I could from DeviantArt a few days ago because I decided I didn't like the community over there. Especially in this digital age with all the fear of bad things happening, it's prolly a good idea to remove your art as you leave.
I'm sorry she had such a bad experience, gi_joe05. I hope she finds what she's looking for.
Message edited by author 2007-08-11 17:53:47. |
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08/11/2007 06:12:45 PM · #37 |
Originally posted by formerlee:
Referring to me! You obviously have no experience of the real business world of photography. If you think we should all be sucky assed, a comment how everything is rosy, then you have a shock coming. The world out there is hard, we try to be constructive, they don't! Respect is earned by working at a style and sticking with it, not by saying everyone is nasty, leave bad comments, I quit!
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This is true, if we start to leave places for small things like people are rude, we would not be staying anywhere. There are all types of people here at dpc.
When she was writing in 'membership available' thread at one point I thought of sending her pm offering membership (because she seems good photographer), but stopped just because she has not participated much.
(I was not sure how much she would use that membership).
Another thing is sometimes what someone says is not rude from his/her point of view but other person feel its rude.
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08/11/2007 08:00:23 PM · #38 |
I'm not saying end criticism. I'm saying RESPECT people. It IS possible to give valid and even negative criticism without being condescending and rude about it. "This style really isn't my thing" and "Here's what I see that you can improve upon" and MUCH different and MUCH more helpful than "You do/don't do X and therefore you are not a photographer" and "This photo sucks". Get me? No? Then YOU probably don't belong in public at all.
Also,  formerlee, you imply that amateur photographers have no business criticizing the bad behavior of professionals, basically looking down your nose at ME for daring to suggest that we RESPECT OTHER PEOPLE. Honey, your condescension is not exclusive to photographers. It is pervasive throughout the business world. And frankly, they sicken me. I've been in the workplace full-time for a full decade now, and have spent eight years in my current career, and I can tell you that in every job I've ever had, you make more friends, repeat customers, and lasting network contacts with kindness than with such a shitty attitude.
I don't mean that you must never say or hear anything negative. My current job is the best I've ever had, and they are ALWAYS critical in my annual reviews. It's not ticker tape and lollipops, but they do tell me what I'm doing right in addition to making suggestions about where I can improve. That sort of critique really doesn't even come close to pandering to anyone's ego and yet I'm not offended because they're being respectful and helpful - GO FIGURE! I've stayed there for five years now, and have no plans to leave anytime soon.
In case you haven't noticed, participation on this site is discretionary, and I have no desire to stay in a place where I am treated rudely and condescendingly and without a modicrum of respect. It's not like anyone is holding us down, so why SHOULDN'T we leave if we're constantly treated rudely? Why SHOULD we give rude people such encouragement to continue with their lack of manners by continuing to give them targets? Why must we continue to subject ourselves to such horrible treatment? Why is it anathema to speak out against it, make a statement?
What kind of world do you want to live in, and what are you willing to do about it? Why not start with the little things, like, oh, I don't know, acting like decent human beings in silly little backwater internet forums?
But of course, this is a completely ridiculous notion, right? We'd rather be snarky and rude and drive good people off the site so we can smirk and call them thin-skinned and congratulate ourselves for being so obviously superior. Grow up.
This is NOT how it has to be. If you just write it off as the way things are, I feel sorry for you. Complacency is the same as encouragement of the status quo. Treat people the way you expect to be treated - with respect and with manners.
Message edited by author 2007-08-11 20:00:49.
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08/11/2007 08:14:14 PM · #39 |
Originally posted by Rebecca:
But of course, this is a completely ridiculous notion, right? We'd rather be snarky and rude and drive good people off the site so we can smirk and call them thin-skinned and congratulate ourselves for being so obviously superior. Grow up.
This is NOT how it has to be. If you just write it off as the way things are, I feel sorry for you. Complacency is the same as encouragement of the status quo. Treat people the way you expect to be treated - with respect and with manners. |
Well said. :) |
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08/11/2007 08:26:21 PM · #40 |
Originally posted by basssman7:
Well said. :) |
DNMC. In fact, that's not even an argument. What is it doing in this thread while an argument is going on? Not to mention it's too small, and your style just plain sucks. I bet if it was photographic in nature it would be full of noise, underexposed and out of focus. |
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08/11/2007 08:55:02 PM · #41 |
Rebecca, in theory you are correct in that massive post. But, that's just not reality. So, since we all have to live in reality, we all need a thick skin to get by emotionally intact. Has anyone ever accomplished anything of significance by quitting when people were rude to them?
Another point to be made. The owners of this site appoint moderators who they think best represent dpc. If these moderators think everything is hunky dory, well then it is. In which case your opinion would be the "wrong" one for this site, again...for this site.
Don't even get me started on how this thread is really just an attention getting means for pity. Someone who really wanted to quit would just not return, as if deleting an account means anything, ridiculous. |
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08/11/2007 09:00:05 PM · #42 |
School is always first.
DPC is just "fill", and has little meaning compared to your education.
Focus on what is important, after that, come back and show us what you have learned.
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08/11/2007 09:10:08 PM · #43 |
Originally posted by cedew:
Rebecca, in theory you are correct in that massive post. But, that's just not reality. |
Then help change reality.
What achievement on DPC is significant? A fake ribbon that no one outside of DPC will ever care about? She's not quitting her art. She's walking away from the people she does not need to continue its pursuit. She's quitting you, and the backlash offered here just shows how offended many people are to be publicly discarded.
The "moderators" are Site Council, and I cannot speak for any of them, but they very may well agree with me. I also agree with their ongoing policy of not stomping on anyone's free speech, but I have seen them step in when the personal attacks get out of hand. Just because our manners are not policed does not mean we should act as though we haven't got any.
And congratulations on perpetuating the abuse by calling her an attention whore. I know that would make ME change my mind about the rude people and want to come back! But I really shouldn't set such high expectations for someone whose opinion of the site isn't very high to begin with.
Message edited by author 2007-08-11 21:11:34.
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08/11/2007 09:18:11 PM · #44 |
Originally posted by cedew:
Rebecca, in theory you are correct in that massive post. But, that's just not reality. So, since we all have to live in reality, we all need a thick skin to get by emotionally intact. Has anyone ever accomplished anything of significance by quitting when people were rude to them? |
Just a reminder, we aren't part of a live and let die business here, this is a community of lovers of the art of photography. There's no reason to be like that here. In the projects, reality might be you'll get shot and killed for the McDonalds hamburger you're carrying--the same isn't true at church. I think DPC was meant to be a supportive environment, not a kill or get killed fight to the death for a ribbon. |
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08/11/2007 09:19:02 PM · #45 |
Originally posted by Rebecca:
I'm not saying end criticism. I'm saying RESPECT people. It IS possible to give valid and even negative criticism without being condescending and rude about it. "This style really isn't my thing" and "Here's what I see that you can improve upon" and MUCH different and MUCH more helpful than "You do/don't do X and therefore you are not a photographer" and "This photo sucks". Get me? No? Then YOU probably don't belong in public at all.
Also, formerlee, you imply that amateur photographers have no business criticizing the bad behavior of professionals, basically looking down your nose at ME for daring to suggest that we RESPECT OTHER PEOPLE. Honey, your condescension is not exclusive to photographers. It is pervasive throughout the business world. And frankly, they sicken me. I've been in the workplace full-time for a full decade now, and have spent eight years in my current career, and I can tell you that in every job I've ever had, you make more friends, repeat customers, and lasting network contacts with kindness than with such a shitty attitude.
I don't mean that you must never say or hear anything negative. My current job is the best I've ever had, and they are ALWAYS critical in my annual reviews. It's not ticker tape and lollipops, but they do tell me what I'm doing right in addition to making suggestions about where I can improve. That sort of critique really doesn't even come close to pandering to anyone's ego and yet I'm not offended because they're being respectful and helpful - GO FIGURE! I've stayed there for five years now, and have no plans to leave anytime soon.
In case you haven't noticed, participation on this site is discretionary, and I have no desire to stay in a place where I am treated rudely and condescendingly and without a modicrum of respect. It's not like anyone is holding us down, so why SHOULDN'T we leave if we're constantly treated rudely? Why SHOULD we give rude people such encouragement to continue with their lack of manners by continuing to give them targets? Why must we continue to subject ourselves to such horrible treatment? Why is it anathema to speak out against it, make a statement?
What kind of world do you want to live in, and what are you willing to do about it? Why not start with the little things, like, oh, I don't know, acting like decent human beings in silly little backwater internet forums?
But of course, this is a completely ridiculous notion, right? We'd rather be snarky and rude and drive good people off the site so we can smirk and call them thin-skinned and congratulate ourselves for being so obviously superior. Grow up.
This is NOT how it has to be. If you just write it off as the way things are, I feel sorry for you. Complacency is the same as encouragement of the status quo. Treat people the way you expect to be treated - with respect and with manners. |
well said, I think this is how a ton of us feel.
I really think if something isn't done about this site is just going to fizzle out. I have allready noticed voting is down. at one point in time I had no change in the number of votes I recieved on a challenge entry for two days.
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08/11/2007 09:22:34 PM · #46 |
This should go down as a prime example of how strained communication can be by text only. I seriously doubt it would go like this in real life, as tone, body language, facial expressions, even dramatic pauses can completely change the way a conversation is interpreted.
Think I'll go have a cup of coffee. Anyone else wanna join me? |
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08/11/2007 09:23:41 PM · #47 |
Originally posted by Brad:
This should go down as a prime example of how strained communication can be by text only. I seriously doubt it would go like this in real life, as tone, body language, facial expressions, even dramatic pauses can completely change the way a conversation is interpreted.
Think I'll go have a cup of coffee. Anyone else wanna join me? |
I'd rather have a Beer... :D
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08/11/2007 09:28:57 PM · #48 |
Rebecca, 2634 people have read that thread I started. If you think having a few more read it bothers me, you are mistaken, though I'm glad to see you've done your research ;) It's my opinion, and it's properly placed in the rant section. Go through it and read, I get my ass kicked all up and down. But, it's not a big deal to me, because it's just text on a screen.
Brad, you make a great point. No coffee for me thanks, I'm already spun on rockstar. |
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08/11/2007 09:40:56 PM · #49 |
If this was real life, this is about the time I would pull you aside Mike and quietly mention how close and tight of a community this really is, with some members being very active here for many, many years, and when a new kid on the block jumps in that hasn't been in the trenches here as so many have, it's really hard to gain the respect for your voice, especially never having entered a challenge, never casting a vote, no favorites, looked at 3 images not used in a challenge, and until this thread, never saying anything except in the rant forum.
Keep in mind I'm not saying your opinion is right or wrong, just suggesting getting more active in the neighborhood, getting the feel for the ebb & the flow of the place. Heck you can even bring your own Rockstar, get comfy, kick your shoes off and chill with the bunch.
Message edited by author 2007-08-11 21:48:51. |
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08/12/2007 08:32:39 PM · #50 |
Originally posted by Brad:
If this was real life, this is about the time I would pull you aside Mike and quietly mention how close and tight of a community this really is, with some members being very active here for many, many years, and when a new kid on the block jumps in that hasn't been in the trenches here as so many have, it's really hard to gain the respect for your voice, especially never having entered a challenge, never casting a vote, no favorites, looked at 3 images not used in a challenge, and until this thread, never saying anything except in the rant forum.
Keep in mind I'm not saying your opinion is right or wrong, just suggesting getting more active in the neighborhood, getting the feel for the ebb & the flow of the place. Heck you can even bring your own Rockstar, get comfy, kick your shoes off and chill with the bunch. |
well said and I would have to agee with the whole idea of this being a tight nit community.
I fear that our numbers of seasoned vets are going down in record numbers. it would be nice to gain back some of the greats that we have lost in the past year. |
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