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08/06/2007 05:30:57 PM · #76 |
Originally posted by Bear_Music:
Originally posted by pawdrix:
Originally posted by Jmnuggy:
At least Ty Cobb never cheated. |
well, he used to sharpen his cleats and tear guys legs up when he slid into a base. I don't think he would have held the Stolen Base record until the 80's if it weren't for that. I wouldn't exactly call that fair play. |
I donno. Intimidation has always been a part of the game. Those defenders gave him a little extra space just out of fear. Just like some pitchers are intentionally wild and force batters away from the plate a little.
R. |
For sure. I can accept throwing the balls at batters hogging the plate (see:Bob Gibson) and that kind of stuff but sharpened cleats seems super sleazy to me. |
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08/06/2007 05:36:01 PM · #77 |
Originally posted by pawdrix:
For sure. I can accept throwing the balls at batters hogging the plate (see:Bob Gibson) and that kind of stuff but sharpened cleats seems super sleazy to me. |
I've been told that's sort of an urban legend, that he didn't really do it except once or twice, but that was enough for people to think we was GONNA do it and worry a whole lot :-) I don't know for sure though.
Same thing with spitballs: if you get them THINKING you're throwing spitballs it messes with their heads.
R.
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08/07/2007 09:08:44 AM · #78 |
this is a small picture, but a great one. If the catcher is blocking the plate, you can come in feet first or shoulder first, which do you think Ty Cobb would prefer?
Thats about the highest slide Ive ever seen.
//www.baseball-almanac.com/feats/feats15.shtml |
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08/07/2007 09:16:53 AM · #79 |
| Is that Kung Fu or Baseball? |
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08/07/2007 09:59:08 AM · #80 |
Some of Ty Cobb's "contributions" to baseball:
- Reportedly slept with a revolver under his pillow in case his teammates (who almost universally despised him) tried to attack him in his sleep.
- Once leapt into the stands and pummeled a fan that heckled him. The fan was missing most of his fingers and couldn't really fight back.
- He was an unabashed racist and routinely punched or knocked down blacks on the street. He also got into an altercation at a hotel and slashed the black night manager with a knife.
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08/07/2007 10:05:35 AM · #81 |
ha ha. The runner has as much a right to home plate as the catcher.
As for why he held the stolen base record for so long. It was a different game when he played. Back then it was extremely low scoring, low offense. Runs were manufactured with stolen bases, hit and runs etc... HR totals were around 10-15 for the season leader. This made stolen bases a necessity so speed was much more valued in players.
Also for a while there was no faul strike rule. Foul balls didn't count as strikes so at bats lasted a while. More pitches means more SB opportunities.
As for most aspects of the early baseball years, the game was not as refined. Catchers now have much better technique and arms to limit base stealing as well as pitchers have much more tried and tested techniques for holding runners on base.
Ty Cobb was an animal on the basepath though. He has more home plate steals than anyone else. |
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08/07/2007 10:08:18 AM · #82 |
those are some highlights of tys career.
Given all the stories of racism and violence, the only two people to get more hall of fame bids were Nolan Ryan and Cal Ripken. Ty was a jerk and most hated him, but everyone respected his abilities and tenacity. |
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08/07/2007 10:31:47 PM · #83 |
barry bonds was the original model for the "bobblehead" doll idea....kidding,this is the bash barry thread right? lol
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08/08/2007 12:02:51 AM · #84 |
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08/08/2007 12:04:20 AM · #85 |
*756 Originally posted by faidoi:
756. |
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08/08/2007 09:11:36 AM · #86 |
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08/08/2007 09:17:12 AM · #87 |
| I do NOT like it .. and I don't have to acknowledge it either! |
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08/08/2007 09:22:56 AM · #88 |
He's got the record, I don't see how anyone can argue otherwise.
Just because you don't like the person doesn't mean that they haven't got the record.
I thought it was "Innocent until proven guilty"?
Let's see, I don't like Italy, so therefore they didn't win the World Cup last year.
Stupid arguement.
:-)
Message edited by author 2007-08-08 09:23:22. |
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08/08/2007 09:26:37 AM · #89 |
Originally posted by pamelasue:
Mitch Albom had this column in the Detroit Free Press this morning ... he isn't a Bonds fan!
Free Press Article |
take a minute and read this ... then let us know if you still support Bonds and his cheating ways ... |
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08/08/2007 09:34:25 AM · #90 |
Originally posted by pamelasue:
Originally posted by pamelasue:
Mitch Albom had this column in the Detroit Free Press this morning ... he isn't a Bonds fan!
Free Press Article |
take a minute and read this ... then let us know if you still support Bonds and his cheating ways ... |
I read the article.
And I never said I supported him or "his cheating ways".
I don't even like baseball (I'm English you see :-))
But if he's cheating, then why hasn't something been done about it?
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08/08/2007 09:37:58 AM · #91 |
| because baseball is making money ... they're putting butts in the seats ... if they started mandatory testing for any performance enhancing drugs and suspended/banned the ones who tested positive ... they'd lose a bunch of players ... and baseball fans would turn their backs on the sport ... in the end they'd lose a ton of money ... and we all know that money talks ... so .... |
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08/08/2007 09:39:58 AM · #92 |
Originally posted by UNCLEBRO:
I don't even like baseball (I'm English you see :-))
But if he's cheating, then why hasn't something been done about it? |
Because Bud Selig hasn't got the cojones to stand up to the players union when it comes to players taking steroids and implementing an effective testing program. |
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08/08/2007 09:43:22 AM · #93 |
Originally posted by pamelasue:
because baseball is making money ... they're putting butts in the seats ... if they started mandatory testing for any performance enhancing drugs and suspended/banned the ones who tested positive ... they'd lose a bunch of players ... and baseball fans would turn their backs on the sport ... in the end they'd lose a ton of money ... and we all know that money talks ... so .... |
I'd heard that baseball was and always has been troubled with cheating and the such.
So what I don't undersdtand is how you (baseball fans) can support any player or any team or any record?
Indeed, how can you even follow the sport if cheating is so rife?
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08/08/2007 09:53:45 AM · #94 |
Originally posted by UNCLEBRO:
Originally posted by pamelasue:
because baseball is making money ... they're putting butts in the seats ... if they started mandatory testing for any performance enhancing drugs and suspended/banned the ones who tested positive ... they'd lose a bunch of players ... and baseball fans would turn their backs on the sport ... in the end they'd lose a ton of money ... and we all know that money talks ... so .... |
I'd heard that baseball was and always has been troubled with cheating and the such.
So what I don't undersdtand is how you (baseball fans) can support any player or any team or any record?
Indeed, how can you even follow the sport if cheating is so rife? |
Ask cycling fans. |
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08/08/2007 10:23:10 AM · #95 |
UNCLEBRO,
Baseball has not been plagued by cheating. Probably the most famous black eye to baseball that took a lot to bounce back from was the 1919 World Series where 8 players were accused of throwing the world series and all banned from baseball.
Other than the steroid used, baseball has been clean. There is always the instance of a corked bat or scuffing the ball or the famous pine tar incident. But those are all minor and really have very little effect on the outcome.
Im sure there is the same amount of cheating in Cricket or Soccer.
He does have the record, but its a bullshit record. He has been proven guilty. Balco implicated him, his personal trainer went to jail for providing steroids to athletes, etc...
Ill say it again, the steroids and money have nothing to do with each other. If they threw Barry Bonds, Palmiero, Giambi, Sosa etc... all out of baseball, there would be little to no financial loss. If anything, there may be financial gain because people would respect the commisioner and feel that baseball was pure again. People are going to buy tickets no matter who is playing. Remember the strike in which replacement players were brought in... People still went to the games and bought a ticket. Besides that, its not selling tickets that makes baseball all their money, its the TV rights and special channels like YES that make the money.
Did you know that YES network makes the Yankees more money than ticket sales? Becasue of YES, the Yankees are valued into the billions.
I personally think that Selig doesn't go after the steroids because going after these high profile athletes is like going after a major corporation, they have resources beyond belief and endless money for lawyers. They will fight their banning for as long as it takes. Imagine if Pete Rose had the money that Barry Bonds had. |
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08/08/2007 11:00:27 AM · #96 |
Yo youre crazy. There has been a ton of cheating in the game. TONS!!! Reading the catchers signs and using signals to let the batters know what pitches are coming, gambling, game throwing, and also - you have to realize that people are doing it and just not getting caught as well.
If there is money to be made, even the richest person will go out of his way to make it, cause enough is never enough. |
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08/08/2007 11:28:14 AM · #97 |
Originally posted by LoudDog:
I also read the armor acts as a mechanical arm restricting motion and balancing his arm to make a sweet swing. Plus the weight of it gets added to the bat in the F=M*A equation.
If it's legal and works, not sure why more don't use it? Maybe it's too heavy for non-steroid juiced people? |
According to this article:
"At the moment, Bonds' apparatus enjoys "grandfathered" status. Similar devices are presently denied to average major leaguers, who must present evidence of injury before receiving an exemption."
The linked article outlines 6 reasons why Bond's apparatus gives him an advantage in hitting that most players do not have. |
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08/08/2007 11:44:04 AM · #98 |
What are the TONS of cheating other than steroids?
Relaying a catchers sign to a batter is not cheating. It is the job of the catcher to either 1. hide your signs and hide them well. or 2. use indicators or sequences to hide your sign.
Stealing signs is a part of baseball. Anytime a runner makes it to 2nd base, they can see the catcher clearly. That is not cheating, the pitcher and catcher just need to be smarter.
Game throwing, gambling etc.. please state your source. Please don't use Pete Rose as your only gambling source. Everyone knows he bet on baseball. |
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08/08/2007 11:57:48 AM · #99 |
Originally posted by Jmnuggy:
He has been proven guilty. Balco implicated him, his personal trainer went to jail for providing steroids to athletes, etc... |
"Implication" does not equal "proven guilty" in the US, at least not yet, regardless of our President's predilictions. Bonds' trainer went to jail for refusing to testify before a Grand Jury, not for anything he actually "did." |
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08/08/2007 12:31:50 PM · #100 |
why is he refusing to testify? Because he will be forced to name names of athletes he provided drugs to.
I really wish Bonds hit last nights homer in any park other than San Fran. I think he would have been booed.
Hank Aaron was classy as always last night in wishing him well. Hank doesn't need to say what everyone else thinks and bash the record.
It doesn't matter if Bonds ever admits his steroid use. It will be evidently clear once he retires and his body/mind start to deteriorate. When he is plagued w/ disease that is a direct effect from steroids, everyone will know. Maybe he will go the way of Pete Rose and deny for 30 years and then one day when his hall of fame bids go unanswered he'll write a book titled "So I Used Steroids" |
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