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08/05/2007 09:26:17 PM · #151 |
Originally posted by basssman7:
Originally posted by GeneralE:
Originally posted by basssman7:
... flip the stupid image in photoshop and be treated the same way! |
"Upside down" does not really say "180° Rotation" to me ... if you have a great picture of which you're proud, enter it and see how it does. Otherwise, sit on it for about ten days or so (until the voting is over) and then post it in its own thread so it can garner all the attention you think it deserves. |
From Webster:
Main Entry: up·side down
Pronunciation: '&p-"sId-'daun
Function: adverb
Etymology: alteration of Middle English up so doun, from up + so + doun down
1 : in such a way that the upper and the lower parts are reversed in position
Is that not describing a 180 degree rotation? |
Just because the "subject" of an image is upside-down doesn't mean the whole frame is upside down. |
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08/05/2007 09:28:21 PM · #152 |
A few thoughts:
A) Bassman, if you think the challenge was "clearly stated" you are deluding yourself. I spoke of a 3000 view thread, but underestimated. It's at 3500. If the challenge was clear, the thread would simply have been ignored afer a few people called me an idiot.
B) While I felt like I personally did understand the challenge, I was posting primarily for the population who does not speak English as their first language. This makes up a sizable chunk of the DPC community. If they just entered something flipped, or something taken with an upside down camera without the subject being "upside right", was it to be a simple, "learn English dork, 1"? Maybe this was simply an attempt to keep  De Sousa (who speaks Portuguese) from winning yet another ribbon.
C) While I am somewhat surprised at the lateness of the description change, I am perfectly fine with it as it is more general rather than more restrictive. Had they made the scope "smaller", well, then I think people who spent 14 hours shooting would have a legit beef. As it is, if you have a great example of a right side up subject in an upside down world, you will have a great shot at winning, no matter how many flipped images are entered. |
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08/05/2007 09:35:09 PM · #153 |
Originally posted by DrAchoo:
A few thoughts:
A) Bassman, if you think the challenge was "clearly stated" you are deluding yourself. I spoke of a 3000 view thread, but underestimated. It's at 3500. If the challenge was clear, the thread would simply have been ignored afer a few people called me an idiot.
B) While I felt like I personally did understand the challenge, I was posting primarily for the population who does not speak English as their first language. This makes up a sizable chunk of the DPC community. If they just entered something flipped, or something taken with an upside down camera without the subject being "upside right", was it to be a simple, "learn English dork, 1"? Maybe this was simply an attempt to keep De Sousa (who speaks Portuguese) from winning yet another ribbon.
C) While I am somewhat surprised at the lateness of the description change, I am perfectly fine with it as it is more general rather than more restrictive. Had they made the scope "smaller", well, then I think people who spent 14 hours shooting would have a legit beef. As it is, if you have a great example of a right side up subject in an upside down world, you will have a great shot at winning, no matter how many flipped images are entered. |
Don't worry about entering Mr Snotty Nose...or De Sousa...I have the blue ribbon image...hehehehehe!!
..../judi running away now!!
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08/05/2007 09:41:16 PM · #154 |
Well, just to be upfront on this issue, I didn't like the challenge description (in its original incarnation). Yet, in good faith and in an effort to stimulate my creativity and in an effort to meet the true sense of meeting a truly challenging challenge, I took the original challenge description at face value and went out to shoot an image which "meets the challenge". That is really what DPChallenge is all about!!!!! It is discouraging, to say the least, to find that a small group of high profile whiners forced a revision, as in a major watering down, of the challenge.
You can't call me a whiner, because my image has been submitted, according to the original proffers of the Administrators. And, to reiterate, while voting, I'll give everyone the benefit of the doubt under all challenge descriptions... because I remember the original wording of the challenge! And, I respect the revised wording.
The issue at stake is whether, or not, it's fair to change the challenge description late in the game to mollify those who didn't find the challenge description palatable. And, those who were not privileged to read the original wording may take the most recent wording as gospel and punish the images complying with the original challenge constraints, without any advisement that an original wording existed!
So, in the long run....it doesn't matter. Just wanted to lay it out on the table.
edited to correct typographical errors.
Message edited by author 2007-08-05 21:42:17. |
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08/05/2007 09:41:30 PM · #155 |
Forum Rules #11 and #12:
Do not attack other users. This includes "calling out" specific comments or commenters in a hostile manner. Personal attacks are never appropriate in a constructive discussion. If you disagree with another participant, address their points without attacking them personally. Be aware that others may have differing opinions of a personal attack, so use care when posting. Please note that this includes publicly "calling out" commenters (whether by name or not) in a hostile way.
Do not bait or provoke other users. This does not promote civil discussion and will not be tolerated. |
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08/05/2007 10:01:26 PM · #156 |
I applaud the change in description it is clearly not a wholesale change it now allows the photographer to portray upside down as he interprets it and allows for the voter to vote on how he interprets the challenge description.
As stated before this just allows a broader scope.
By the way...... it's only a game....enjoy :)
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08/05/2007 10:52:55 PM · #157 |
Perhaps one of the most important things here that is getting ignored is the fact that for some reason, after 70% of the time alloted for shooting the challenge was over, the scope of the challenge was totally changed. it should have been clarified, not totally changed.
that is wrong. period.
It is a shame that what used to be a wondeful site has come to this. |
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08/05/2007 11:06:46 PM · #158 |
Hey. Aren't we supposed to be having fun....? Considering that 99% of the challenges here go smoothly, are well thought out, and are expertly administered - I suggest we give the folks that come up with the challenge descriptions some thanks for doing such a great job and for doing their part to create this wonderful community.
I think there is plenty of room for a little confusion and clarification once in awhile. We are all very lucky to have this site.
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08/05/2007 11:09:10 PM · #159 |
| I think I can see both sides here. If they were going to change and broaden the scope, then it probably should have been earlier in the challenge period. The issue of ambiguity/confusion was brought up immediatly after the challenge was announced. On the other hand, for those who took pictures already, there is no guarantee that the majority would have areed with your interpetation of the challenge and you could have been slapped with a large amount of DNMC's anyways. The challange rules left much to be interpeted, as the forum pointed out with all the varying opinions. I will have to say that the new rule set should prevent people from getting any DNMC's, unless it is completely obvious that the photo has nothing to do with upside down in any stretch of the imagination. Good luck to all and remember that this is all about fun and learning, take a deep breath and enjoy the shoot and what you learned. Just my 2 cents |
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08/05/2007 11:13:38 PM · #160 |
Originally posted by alexzen:
Hey. Aren't we supposed to be having fun....? Considering that 99% of the challenges here go smoothly, are well thought out, and are expertly administered - I suggest we give the folks that come up with the challenge descriptions some thanks for doing such a great job and for doing their part to create this wonderful community.
I think there is plenty of room for a little confusion and clarification once in awhile. We are all very lucky to have this site. |
Last time I checked, I paid money to be part of this site, that gives me the right to voice my displeasure when something is done poorly. I have also bought memberships for 3 other people this year, because it is normally a very good site.
I have every reason to be upset with the way this was handled. If I offended anyone then I apologize because that was not my intent, I simply do not take very well to being talked down to.
All the obvious problems with this have been stated and rehashed, and it is over for me, everyone knows my thoughts on it. Now it is simply up to admin to decide to put the challenge back to what it was originally and to admit that a big mistake was made by changing something that was 70% through. |
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08/05/2007 11:17:28 PM · #161 |
Originally posted by basssman7:
I simply do not take very well to being talked down to.
Now it is simply up to admin to decide to put the challenge back to what it was originally and to admit that a big mistake was made by changing something that was 70% through. |
I don't suppose the site admin and SC like being talked down to either. |
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08/05/2007 11:25:20 PM · #162 |
Originally posted by basssman7:
Now it is simply up to admin to decide to put the challenge back to what it was originally and to admit that a big mistake was made by changing something that was 70% through. |
... and offend the 70% of members (est.) who disagree with you ... sometimes you just can't please everybody. |
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08/05/2007 11:30:30 PM · #163 |
Theres only 31 photos submitted so far, I think it was ok for a change, the original wording was too confusing and would have most likely resulted in lower votes.
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08/05/2007 11:36:17 PM · #164 |
Originally posted by GeneralE:
Originally posted by basssman7:
Now it is simply up to admin to decide to put the challenge back to what it was originally and to admit that a big mistake was made by changing something that was 70% through. |
... and offend the 70% of members (est.) who disagree with you ... sometimes you just can't please everybody. |
sorry GeneralE. It is just bad business to change something in mid-stream.
All that really needs to be done to make EVERYONE happy is to once again add the part that says "camera must be in an upside down position". That is all I am seeking. It would be nice and clear, and once again mean that the work that Judi, myself, and others did with the discomfort of an upside down camera would be judged properly for the difficulty it was.
Is that too much to ask, considering what has happened so far? |
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08/05/2007 11:54:50 PM · #165 |
Originally posted by basssman7:
(08/05/2007 11:13:38 PM post) ... All the obvious problems with this have been stated and rehashed, and it is over for me ... |
Are you sure? :D
Dang. I ran out of popcorn.
When all is said and done on this does it really matter? Most of the time the voters don't read the challenge description that closely anyway. Isn't that another complaint that floats around once in awhile? :P
Hey, the challenge is "Upside Down". How hard can it be to vote on this? Will the EXIF data on your photo show whether your camera was upside down when you took the shot? No. Will the voters be able to tell? Probably not.
So, what did you think about the April Fools Day challenge? :-) |
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08/06/2007 07:33:45 AM · #166 |
Originally posted by basssman7:
Why not do the proper thing and CLARIFY the original, for example telling folks that "upside right" is the same thing as "rightside up" which is what most of the posters were complaining about?? |
Because people had already entered the challenge', and there were several mutually-exclusive guesses at what the challenge description meant - which means that any more specific clarification would have turned one or more of those into a DNMC. We did not wish to create a situation where someone had entered in good faith, and then turn their entry into a DNMC by changing the challenge description.
Keep in mind that a significant portion of our user base consists of non-native English speakers. Given that even native English speakers were having trouble with the description, you can imagine the difficulty for someone who did not grow up with the language.
We were getting tons of requests to clarify what the challenge description mean -- more than I recall ever seeing before. Leaving the description unchanged wasn't an option.
I agree this is an imperfect solution, but it was the best among a bunch of bad options. :(
Sorry for any inconvenience.
~Terry
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08/06/2007 08:02:14 AM · #167 |
Originally posted by glad2badad:
Will the EXIF data on your photo show whether your camera was upside down when you took the shot? No. Will the voters be able to tell? Probably not.
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EXACTLY!!! |
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08/06/2007 01:55:13 PM · #168 |
Originally posted by CVette:
Originally posted by glad2badad:
Will the EXIF data on your photo show whether your camera was upside down when you took the shot? No. Will the voters be able to tell? Probably not.
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EXACTLY!!! |
First of all, yes it does. it shows as "orientation".
second of all, some things can be taken at someone's word. For example we do not know for sure who actually took the picture being entered, but we trust that it was the member. We also trust that folks do not have two different accounts, one at home and one at work for different IP addresses. |
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08/06/2007 02:39:48 PM · #169 |
Sheesh.
basssman7: are you here purely for competition? If so, then okay, be upset. But if you're here to push yourself, then celebrate. You spent time outdoors (man, what I wouldn't give for more of that) and took a picture in an unconventional way that you're proud of. In other words, you challenged yourself and succeeded.
Hahn23: you had me going for a while - you seemed to get that this wasn't life and death. Then you had to go and accuse the SC of kowtowing to DrAchoo just because he wins ribbons. Bad boy!
Both of you: remember that this thread is hardly the only way for people to express puzzlement. And for everyone who does express it in some way, many more won't bother. For example, this thread seemed to sum up my own confusion quite well, so I didn't bother posting.
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08/06/2007 04:50:22 PM · #170 |
| Anyone have any extra blood pressure medicine? |
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08/06/2007 05:19:50 PM · #171 |
Originally posted by CVette:
Originally posted by glad2badad:
Will the EXIF data on your photo show whether your camera was upside down when you took the shot? No. Will the voters be able to tell? Probably not.
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EXACTLY!!! |
It's irrelevant anyway. For example, in a vertically-oriented shot some of us hold camera rotated to left, some to right; who's to say which is "really" upside-down? That was never the point of the challenge, don't be ridiculous.
R.
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08/06/2007 05:22:17 PM · #172 |
Originally posted by Bear_Music:
It's irrelevant anyway. For example, in a vertically-oriented shot some of us hold camera rotated to left, some to right; who's to say which is "really" upside-down? That was never the point of the challenge, don't be ridiculous.
R. |
I like to hold my camera so the inverse philatelic side is pointed to the navel-oriented philharmonic side. You mean not everyone does that?
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08/06/2007 05:26:04 PM · #173 |
Originally posted by levyj413:
Originally posted by Bear_Music:
It's irrelevant anyway. For example, in a vertically-oriented shot some of us hold camera rotated to left, some to right; who's to say which is "really" upside-down? That was never the point of the challenge, don't be ridiculous.
R. |
I like to hold my camera so the inverse philatelic side is pointed to the navel-oriented philharmonic side. You mean not everyone does that? |
Of course not. We don't allow mail-in challenge entries, and the only Music permitted in DPC is created by Bears.
R.
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08/06/2007 05:32:41 PM · #174 |
O.K. I have a shot for this challenge....
and it better work.....I had to stand on my head to get it! |
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08/06/2007 05:40:00 PM · #175 |
Originally posted by Bear_Music:
Originally posted by levyj413:
I like to hold my camera so the inverse philatelic side is pointed to the navel-oriented philharmonic side. You mean not everyone does that? |
Of course not. We don't allow mail-in challenge entries, and the only Music permitted in DPC is created by Bears.
R. |
THAT explains the 84 DQs I have. Stoopid SC didn't have the guts to tell me straight up. Kept mumbling sumthin' 'bout "spot editing" in Basic and "compositing" in Advanced. Sheesh. Now I know the truth.
Message edited by author 2007-08-06 17:40:14.
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