Wedding Photography - Ideas? w. sample shots

Canon EF 100mm f/2.8 USM Macro

08/03/2007 02:14:15 PM · #1

hello everyone,

i've done a few weddings so far, and am getting more and more comfortable with each. I lost my first 5 or 6 weddings when a harddrive crashed, and i only have the most recent wedding for examples to send out for my wedding work. Unfortunately, the lighting available was horrific, and it wasn't some of my best work.

i picked what i thought to be the best from the last wedding and made a site to send to someone that is thinking of using my services. i was just wondering if anyone had any suggestions.

also, i have a list of my prices / packages, and would like to know what you all think.

first, the link:
//www.jrowephotography.com/examples/

and my packages:
"1.) wedding shoot for prints $650.00 - comes with $100 worth of print credit with my lab (they do amazing work). this covers the entire day, preparation before if you wish, the ceremony, reception, etc. i'm flexible on anything, so just let me know any ideas you may have.
i spend countless hours editing images, and i do not charge by the hour like most people do. This is included in the shooting fee.

2.) wedding shoot for cd of edited pictures $850.00 - this comes with all the edited files on cd to keep and get prints from the lab of your choice. it comes with a copyright release form that will give you all rights to the images. a lot of people like this one b/c of being able to have the images on their computer, e-mailing, etc. like i said, it gives you full-copyright priveledges of them, and you can distribute them as you wish. "

i'm looking at trying to figure out a way to make my own albums, making the pages with fotofusion and printing, getting them bound, and make the album and making it a part of this package price. if anyone has any insite on that, i would be greatly appreciative.

thanks so much for those of you pros that have some time to help me out ;)

Spork99

OM System OM-1

08/03/2007 02:42:15 PM · #2

I think a lot of your samples are too similar, you need to edit more. I'd rather see 10 images that blow me away than 20, 10 of which stand out and 10 which are lesser variations.

Are you specializing in B&W only? If not, you really need to showcase some of your color work. Show that you understand how to use color in photographs.

I think that generally, you're underpricing your work, especially if you're selling rights, but you know your market better than I do.

Oh, and I would not say that you're selling the copyrights, that would prevent you from using the images for self-promotion. If you want to give them lifetime reproduction rights to the images, say that. IMO it's unwise for you to re-assign the actual copyright to them. You would be giving up all of your rights to the work and they would not really be gaining anything beyond what they want.

I also think that printing and binding your own work is going overboard. There are several online album vendors that deliver a high quality product and all you need to do is upload the jpegs of the pages, designed as you want.

Prof_Fate

08/03/2007 02:44:19 PM · #3

I do not intend these comments to be harsh or mean, but just to be REALISTIC...you're going (or are) charging money, you ARE a professional in an industry that I and others are trying to make a living in, so I don't want to see this industry get a bad rep and be devalued by folks that are out to make a quick buck or have no idea of how to properly run a business.

Give this a read:
//photobusinessforum.blogspot.com/2007/08/business-practices-pita-and-obstacle.html

You're not charging enough to be a working pro - but then, since you didn't back up ANYTHING, you are NOT much a pro. Sorry, but it shows a sever lack of forethought or responsibility not to back up something irreplaceable.
You want to make a living? You need $40,0000 in income, and on that you'll pay 1/3 in taxes. Variable costs run 20% (prints, albums, etc). General overhead (computer, equipment, advertising, insurance, etc) can run $15,000 easy. SO you need to get $75,000 or more, and on how many weddings? I know guys that shoot 50 a year...a $1500 average. To sell, shoot, PP and do an album can take 30 hours - so that's $50/hour. call around for ANYTHING - car repair, plumbers, computer geeks and you'll find most charge that or a lot more.

As to pricing- PRICE WHAT YOUR LOCAL MARKET IS GETTING! Here that's $2000, and close to the city it's $3500. Don't be giving it away so cheap. DON"T do just a CD with images. It devalues you and your work, and you're not even doing 1/2 the job. Sell an album - the COST for a NICE 10x10 30 side album is $225 and you can get $2000 for that on a good day, 1000 on a bad one, and I know some photogs getting $50,000 for albums that size. No sh1t.

Albums - call GP albums in chicago, get one of their Optimus self stick albums - samples are 50% off. Use fotofusion, render (export they call it) high res jpgs and have them printed, you stick them in the book. An 8x10 is a cheap size as that is a standard print size. profilmet.com does 8x10s for $1, and a quick stick from GP in 8x10 with 20 sides is $50 - $70 your cost for an album. Charge them $600 for that, or $700 for a CD, or $100 for a CD with the purchase of an album - 99% will take BOTH!

Trust me on this - charge appropriately, and they will pay it. I'm shooting weddings this year i booked last year for $900, and my latest booking was for $2533 - for later this year. I am getting $1700 for exact same thing now that last year was $1100.

You'll also find as you go up in price, the people get nice and more cooperative too.

BTW, if mom is paying you'll get 30-50% more than if the couple is paying. As my prices have gone up I've also gotten a lot more Mom's - at the $800-1500 range it's all self-pays, and they're cheap, er, poor, er...budget challenged.

Find local PPA type organizaion or your state PPA - join. Attend EVERYTHING you can and listen, talk to the photographers that have been running studios for 10, 15, 30 years. Attend the trade shows and meet the vendors, see the products you can sell. ASK QUESTIONS! LEARN!

and Enjoy!
Good luck

Message edited by author 2007-08-03 15:04:04.

NVPhoto

Canon EOS-40D

Canon EF 50mm f/1.8 II

08/03/2007 03:20:24 PM · #4

Prof,
Im glad you responded to this question because I always read your posts about weddings and business because the advice you give is always great in regards to execution of a professional wedding. Although I agree with all the things you say on the "how to" part, I usually disagree with your advice to beginners. I look at your business as someplace I would like to be and I think my business is someplace you have already been.

Im not trying to start an argument, but i do have some questions about some things you have written to aspiring wedding photogs..

1. Is charging $600 devalueing my work?
2. Is charging $600 for a wedding really taking anything away from your business as a true pro in the industry. (not being sarcastic when I say "true pro")

For me, the $600 gigs are essentially my good sumaritan/practice/killing time type weddings. I live in a heavily college populated town w/ a large group of young professionals and an even larger group of less than affluent young people. The gigs I book for low prices are people who will never or already turned down the $2000+ wedding photog so their options are me for $600 or disposables on the tables. Also, a lot of these cheap weddings, Im hired on a moments notice so if I am available I might as well take the job because otherwise I will just have an empty day. I also take them because its fun and practice and the amount of work after the wedding is usually minimal. I have my first "real" wedding in April next year. Charging $1900 w/o an album. They are asking for a lot. I wouldn't have had the opportunity to even attempt this gig if it hadn't been for the cheap weddings I did this summer.

At least in my area, there is room for both. The $600 wedding and the $2000 wedding are swimming in different ponds. What helps me around here also is the fact that I will customize a package to anyone's needs and alot of the wedding photogs won't do that. I will offer someone a half day and a CD of images for $500 when another photog will say its full day and an album or we won't do it. To me this kind of shows that the bigger pro got first chance to land it, but it wasn't for them so they passed.

I am obviously trying to build up to charging more and more, and I will with time. I needed to start somewhere.

Where did you start in wedding photography, what were your steps? I know you are a full time career photographer, but how did that happen? Again, not sarcastic just curious of your steps taken.

For the record, I always have backup equip and excessive memory regardless of the cheap wedding. I take the mindset that its a cheap wedding for me, but it is their special day. I treat it just the same as I would a $2000 gig.

JM

08/03/2007 03:42:59 PM · #5

I think $600-900 is pretty standard around here. Yes, some of the big places charge a lot more, but for the independent photographers $600-900 is pretty average.

I'm planning on dressing Spawn's girlfriend up as a bride and doing some pictures of her (and probably Spawn) just to have something beside my sister in my portfolio.

Message edited by author 2007-08-03 15:47:11.

08/03/2007 06:17:28 PM · #6

Originally posted by Spazmo99:

thank you so much, i see what you mean, and agree. i will change accordingly. i really appreciate it!

08/03/2007 06:25:15 PM · #7

Originally posted by Prof_Fate:

i understand your viewpoint here, and i don't mean to come across as harsh either, but my town and "market" is so cheap around here. there's a full-time studio that pretty much everyone uses (that my clients so far tend to prefer me over, go figure) in my hometown, and they charge around $1500 or so, and everyone gripes about how expensive they are. small town business sucks, period. i wish there was a PPA within driving distance, that would be amazing.

the problem i run into, is i stress quality and customer service, just like anyone should...but if i was to charge, say, $1,000 for a wedding, the client here would literally say "no thank you" and go to the local university and pick up another of the 100 students toting a camera and get them to do it for $300, or less! I consider myself a lot more than amateur, but working on professional. With the number of weddings i've done, i would not feel comfortable charging $1500+. will i one day, Lord yes. I'm doing this part time now, on the weekends, and when i get off from my full time job, and just trying to support my new L-glass obsession ;) (and pay off student loans).

i truly appreciate your insight, you sound like you're at the level i wish to be at one day.

any resources you could give me that helped you out i would greatly appreciate, and truly appreciate the ones you have given already.

i'm really looking into prints for albums, so anything with that would really help out now as well, i have 5 weddings coming up that i know i'll have to do albums on.

thanks so much!

08/03/2007 06:25:51 PM · #8

Originally posted by Jmnuggy:

couldn't have said it better myself, i agree 100%

08/03/2007 06:26:18 PM · #9

Originally posted by ragamuffingirl:

same to you :D and, i'll model the dress for you if the price is right :D

08/03/2007 06:34:33 PM · #10

raise your prices. I don't care where you live. Thats crazy.

Nikon AF Nikkor 50mm f/1.8D

08/03/2007 06:37:17 PM · #11

Originally posted by ragamuffingirl:

, but for the independent photographers $600-900 is pretty average..

when trying to make a living out of wedding potography "average" is the last thing you want to be. That means everything including your pricing structure.

Travis

wavelength

Nikon D300

08/03/2007 06:40:10 PM · #12

Originally posted by Travis99:

raise your prices. I don't care where you live. Thats crazy.

You'd be suprised how hard it is to get people who don't balk at even $500 prices when you get out of the cities.

If you're doing this on the side just to get some experience, $650 is a good starting point. I wouldn't give away the pics though, I'd make them pay for prints. Just IMO.

I did my first one basically for free, so getting paid anything would actually be a plus for me ;)

Nikon AF Nikkor 50mm f/1.8D

08/03/2007 06:41:49 PM · #13

well travis, what do you expect me to do ? when i say $1000 and get no weddings b/c the market around here is used to what i'm charging...i get no business then.

but then when i charge $600-900 i get 5 weddings booked in a period of a month.

i'd much rather make money than make none and base on "my costs are too low". i'm getting experience. i'm doing it part-time, and making good money doing it. if i charged more, i wouldn't get near as many gigs, in this town anyway. if i was in a bigger town, like Little Rock, yeah. i could charge $1500+ per wedding no problem. the problem is, magnolia arkansas does not appreciate flawless (or near flawless) photography.

everyone has a camera and "l33t ph0t0sh0p" skillz (or so they think) and paying the costs for big-town professional prices is out of the question here.

kyebosh

Canon EOS-20D

Canon EF 80-200mm f/2.8L

08/03/2007 06:46:48 PM · #14

I read that the wedding photographer is supposed to be 7-8% of the wedding's total cost. Around here the average wedding cost is over $30k, so 7% of that is $2100! Look to see if you can find an average price for your area, and remember, price for the weddings you want to shoot.

Also do any of the shots look good in color? I think that you should have at least a few color shots.

edit: but like you say... it's better to get weddings than to not get weddings.

Message edited by author 2007-08-03 18:48:19.

wavelength

Nikon D300

08/03/2007 06:47:25 PM · #15

Originally posted by jerowe:

Yep,

I'm only 20 minutes from the contiguous metro area of KC, and you'd be surprised at how cheap people get out in the "country".

It's changing as the city expands outward, but there are still a LOT of people who wouldn't even dream of getting a pro photographer, or even a semi-pro, to shoot their wedding out here. Just doesn't make sense to them. 20 minutes north, and suddenly $1500 is the cheapest you can find a pro going for.

Canon EF 24-70mm f/2.8L USM

08/03/2007 06:50:43 PM · #16

which is exactly why i'm trying to get away from the small city business. i'm a recent graduate with a double degree in Computer Information Systems and Business Administration, so I'm not doing this full time now, just on the side and on weekends to help funds (loans). maybe one day when i'm doing it full time i will charge $2,000 for a wedding (fingers crossed) but i'm going to build my credentials until i feel like i'm worth it. right now, with the market and with my experience in the field, i'm taking what i can get while enjoying the hell out of it.

and i will add some color shots, no doubt. thanks you guys / gals, i really appreciate all the input.

violinist123

Canon EOS-6D

08/03/2007 07:09:47 PM · #17

Pretty sure I paid 2,000 bucks almost a decade ago, and the photog was actually a friend of my parents...

You're worth what people are willing to pay. Your feelings really have little bearing on the matter.

Nikon AF Nikkor 50mm f/1.8D

08/03/2007 07:53:10 PM · #18

I think my sister's wedding was around 5k, and they paid the photographer $900. My sister's wedding was incredibly lavish by around here standards.

I think of all my friends who have gotten married the average cost of the wedding would be between $1500 -2000, with the most expensive single thing being the dress.

Now, my sister's boss got married and I'm sure dropped a bundle. My sister told me that they paid over $2000 for the photographer. The photographer brought two assistants, more than one camera, strobes, the whole works, and you know what? I was completely unimpressed with the quality of the pictures. Most of them looked like snap-shots to me.

wavelength

Nikon D300

08/03/2007 08:05:06 PM · #19

Originally posted by ragamuffingirl:

God, I had a whole post worked up a deleted it, and that very point was in it.

It seems to me that some of the people that I see charging $2k are just crap. Maybe it's because I've been over-saturated with seeing most of the greats of the industry's portfolios... But no, it's really that they charge that and are lazy photographers that know people really don't know any better. It's kind of sad, really. I know, the David Jays, Joe Buissinks and such get 15K plus, so they're on a different playing field, but it seems to me that many of the wedding photogs are jaded and treat it like a factory business more than a great work of art to shoot a wedding. I hear people say that they "have to" do wedding just to do the other stuff that they want to and survive. This is the mentality that brings about crappy, un-inspired wedding photography.

kyebosh

Canon EOS-20D

Canon EF 80-200mm f/2.8L

08/03/2007 08:39:48 PM · #20

Originally posted by ragamuffingirl:

Now, my sister's boss got married and I'm sure dropped a bundle. My sister told me that they paid over $2000 for the photographer. The photographer brought two assistants, more than one camera, strobes, the whole works, and you know what? I was completely unimpressed with the quality of the pictures. Most of them looked like snap-shots to me.

I wouldn't hire a photographer that didn't have more than one camera.

08/03/2007 08:55:23 PM · #21

Originally posted by kyebosh:

Originally posted by ragamuffingirl:

Now, my sister's boss got married and I'm sure dropped a bundle. My sister told me that they paid over $2000 for the photographer. The photographer brought two assistants, more than one camera, strobes, the whole works, and you know what? I was completely unimpressed with the quality of the pictures. Most of them looked like snap-shots to me.

I wouldn't hire a photographer that didn't have more than one camera.

I THINK they meant that they had more than one camera set up. I only own one camera, but I can easily rent a second from Glenn's Fair Price which is what I'd do in the case of a wedding. A second body is on my short list of things that I want, but it will probably be AT LEAST the end of the year before I get it.

08/03/2007 09:17:07 PM · #22

Originally posted by jerowe:

Think about this.

If you were going car shopping to buy a ferrari, would you even stop and look at the ford dealer?

Your mindset is that of most. That is a very typical answer, and I can understand why most people think this way. As did I. I live in a small town as well, and I book average about two weddings a month, and average a pretty penny for each. I may shoot less weddings than a $500-$900 photographer. But what does that mean? Less hassle, more free weekends.

You want clients to find you. You shouldn't find them. Like you said its your part time gig. Why not take a chance?

Travis

08/03/2007 09:26:26 PM · #23

By the way, I just loked at your website. If you really want to make some money, most brides look for a website that is mainly for weddings. And by the looks of your portraits, you could be charging at least 5 times what you are now.

If you want to travel, advertise to you closest big city. Or advertise as a destination wedding photographer.

If you think people dnt pay for wedding photograpy check out Joe Bussink, he made $170 thousand from one wedding.

Dude, its all what you make it.

Message edited by author 2007-08-03 21:26:46.

08/03/2007 09:33:01 PM · #24

I recently saw a bridal portrait in a British photography magazine that I thought was exceptionally beautiful. I went back to buy the magazine, but the next issue was out.