Freakin Paypal - DPChallenge Forums

Panasonic Lumix G 14mm F2.5 ASPH

08/02/2007 01:54:08 AM · #1

I sold an item on ebay 8 months ago and now the guy filed a chargeback with his credit card company. So I am being stiffed for $200 and he has the item I sold him. I sent them all the paper work that I have in order to straiten this out, but from what I understand paypal will probably stick me with the bill. I have no tracking number because he lived 1 mile away and just came and picked up the item.

This sucks. Here was his feedback for me on ebay...

"Fantastic transaction, could ask for faster shipping (one mile away!), super item"

Olyuzi

Panasonic Lumix DMC-GX7

08/02/2007 07:04:24 AM · #2

What was the buyers reason for the chargeback after so many months? I didn't realize a chargeback could be obtained so easily, doesn't it have to go through some sort of arbitration process?

toddhead

Canon EOS-5D Mark II

Canon EF 24-70mm f/2.8L II

08/02/2007 07:10:11 AM · #3

Paypal really screws the seller. If you don't have proof you sent the item you are screwed almost 100% of the time.

MrEd

Sony DSLR-A100

Sigma 15-30mm f/3.5-4.5 EX Aspherical DG DF for Minolta

08/02/2007 07:56:55 AM · #4

Originally posted by Olyuzi:

What was the buyers reason for the chargeback after so many months? I didn't realize a chargeback could be obtained so easily, doesn't it have to go through some sort of arbitration process?

The chargeback was with the credit card company, who would have paid PayPay, who would have paid Jason. Since the CC company isn't getting paid, it becomes a cascade effect.

Originally posted by toddhead:

Paypal really screws the seller. If you don't have proof you sent the item you are screwed almost 100% of the time.

1/2 true..they don't look to 'screw the seller', it's just common practice. Remember this thread? If he didn't have the tracking number, there would have been nothing he could do either.

P.S. Jason, you know he lives '1 mile from you'....you wouldn't happen to know where?

Spork99

OM System OM-1

Canon EF 100mm f/2.8 USM Macro

08/02/2007 09:11:20 AM · #5

You should go over to his house and ask that the item he bought be returned to you. It should be in the same condition it was when he took possession.

If he gets ornery about it, I'd simply take him to small claims court and ask for the money or the item. The summons might prod him into settling the deal with you. Should you get in front of a judge, have your paperwork in order and you should be fine. Judges take a very dim view of people trying to get something for nothing.

Apple iPhone 5

Nikon AF-S DX Zoom-Nikkor 18-55mm f/3.5-5.6 ED

08/02/2007 09:32:56 AM · #6

Chargebacks are a nightmare for online sellers. If you get a chargeback request from a credit card company they ask you to provide proof like a signed delivery note that the goods were delivered to the customer. Which makes things difficult if you're selling downloadable goods, for example.

Basically, the customer can contact the credit card company, say 'I didn't authorise that payment' and 90% of the time they'll get the refund.

Canon EOS-5D Mark IV

Canon EF 100-400mm f/4.5-5.6L IS

08/02/2007 10:04:45 AM · #7

Isn't his feedback on ebay proof enough he got the stuff?

MrEd

Sony DSLR-A100

Sigma 15-30mm f/3.5-4.5 EX Aspherical DG DF for Minolta

08/02/2007 01:23:43 PM · #8

Originally posted by eyewave:

Isn't his feedback on ebay proof enough he got the stuff?

Unfortunately...no. Sometimes people leave feedback as soon as you tell them it was shipped. Dumb, but it happens.

Added: I am surprised the CC company allows a chargeback so long afterwards.

Message edited by author 2007-08-02 13:24:40.

Sigma 24-70mm f/2.8 IF EX DG HSM for Canon

08/02/2007 09:25:53 PM · #9

Originally posted by MrEd:

P.S. Jason, you know he lives '1 mile from you'....you wouldn't happen to know where?

I will probably make him an offer he cannot refuse...lol

I am going to take him to small claims court if paypal doesn't do the right thing. My mother actually handed him the item, so I have her testimony + all the other information and reciepts. I figure a judge will tell him to pay up, or at the very least it will hassle him, and he will have to explain himself. I am not going to make it easy on him that is for sure.

Message edited by author 2007-08-02 21:29:39.

coronamv

Canon EOS-350D Rebel XT

08/03/2007 11:53:02 AM · #10

Have you tried to contact the buyer and ask why he did a charge back?

NVPhoto

Canon EOS-40D

Canon EF 50mm f/1.8 II

08/03/2007 12:29:59 PM · #11

you could cancel your paypal account before they take your money back.

I had someone not send an item or pay me back and had to dispute it through paypal. Paypal took as much money from this assholes checking account they could, $175 out of $800 I was owed. Paypal essentially tapped him out so there wasn't anything left for me to take. This guy screwed me because there wasn't enough for paypal to recover.

I could have taken him to court, but that is more time and money.

Make it difficult for them to pull any BS and they probably will go away.

fotomann_forever

08/03/2007 12:43:39 PM · #12

I've been preaching for a while now that paypal is the anti-christ... and that is exactly the reason why.

fotomann_forever

08/03/2007 12:45:05 PM · #13

Originally posted by Jmnuggy:

you could cancel your paypal account before they take your money back.

can't do it, but you could freeze or close the bank account it is hooked to.

MrEd

Sony DSLR-A100

Sigma 15-30mm f/3.5-4.5 EX Aspherical DG DF for Minolta

08/03/2007 12:46:08 PM · #14

Originally posted by coronamv:

Have you tried to contact the buyer and ask why he did a charge back?

Originally posted by Jmnuggy:

you could cancel your paypal account before they take your money back.

2 valid questions....though you wouldn't know to cancel until the money was taken back.

PhotoDave

Canon EOS-5D Mark II

Canon EF 70-200mm f/2.8L IS USM II

08/03/2007 12:47:57 PM · #15

Originally posted by fotomann_forever:

I've been preaching for a while now that paypal is the anti-christ... and that is exactly the reason why.

I couldn't agree more, I will prob never have a paypal account and if by some miracle I do actually get one I would set it up for a separate bank account in a separate bank...

-dave

Prof_Fate

08/03/2007 02:17:05 PM · #16

I use paypal, often the virtual terminal as i don't have enough volume to justify a regualar CC machine.
I had a customer with an Amex card not remember/recognize the transaction and refuted it with Amex, THEN called me. Told amex it was ok. Guess what? It was APRIL till i got my money - and that was with all the paperwork, signatures, the customer's cooperation and everything.

It sucks to be the merchant in such cases, but this is there to protect the little guy when a big company just gets lazy, stupid, or high handed.

As an example, I just yesterday did this to Newegg. I ordered a new computer and their site says the memory and mobo are compatable - they are not. (you have to read the manual, only on the CD, that comes with the Mobo to find this out - a wee bit late in my case) So I call them and say take one or the other back and find me something that WILL work. No they can't help me find compatible parts, and it's their policy not to answer 'technical' questions - as in "find me memory with 5-5-5-15 timing" that's not technical, that is a simple database search on their part. They won't do it though.

And their site says 15% on memory, not NO restocking fee on Mobos...the 'customer service' (what a joke that is) was insistent that there was a restock on the mobo - had me click on the same thing she clicked on and her screen (or her mind) was seeing something different than their website was showing me.

I plan to wait until they contact me on this matter. As my CC company rep said 'this will light a fire under them'

Went though something similar with Dell 2 years ago - tried to cancel an order that the site says won't ship for 5 days (i ain't waitin' 5 days for them to put it in a box!) and it actually shipped - on teh UPS truck - in 3 hours so they wouldn't take it back without a restock fee. Bite me folks. They took it back, and paid shipping back to them too.

As to why that guys' card company will let a chargeback occur 8 MONTHS old I have no clue.

08/03/2007 02:37:15 PM · #17

Yes, after this I will cancel my paypal for sure. I am not going to do business on e-bay or paypal anymore. I more a buyer than a seller, but I will not buy from a place that does business like this.

Prof_Fate

08/03/2007 03:03:19 PM · #18

Originally posted by Jason_Cross:

Yes, after this I will cancel my paypal for sure. I am not going to do business on e-bay or paypal anymore. I more a buyer than a seller, but I will not buy from a place that does business like this.

Like what?
The way it works is realy simple, and it's easy to work the system. The store/vendor is the one that gets screwed in the end, not some CC company or insurance company.

I sold mail order for 10 years and saw all sorts of scams. The customer says they didn't get it, they didn't get it - YOU prove otherwise. I got 2 cameras delivered ($1400 box) with NO signature required. Got a 500Gb HD today - no signature required.
I can contest these and never pay for them - no evidence the UPS driver didn't give it to his wife at lunch instead of delivering it. No evident anything was shipped but a box of rocks. Who's to day some door to door salesman didn't steal if from my porch?
UPS can't prove otherwise, so they MAY pay (insurance), but good luck on that. My CC company won't take the loss- they'll take the money back from the vendor/store and them and the customer duke it out. In this case Visa paid paypal, paypal paid jason. The Visa card people are the one's i'd be pissed at.
The problem with paypal is Jason is NOT the merchant, has no merchant number. If he did then he could call the Visa company and talk to them one on one. AS it is he has to get paypal to do that for him, and they have less motivation than him to collect this money.

08/03/2007 03:29:58 PM · #19

It should be "buyer beware".

fotomann_forever

08/03/2007 04:48:56 PM · #20

Paypal is looking out for paypal and since they have more buyers than sellers, they will eff the seller in a heartbeat to save thier reputation as "safe". Screw 'em.

slo007

08/07/2007 03:17:27 PM · #21

I had a problem with Paypal once: they double charged my account and the bank charged me overcharge fees, since I was over the credit limit. I complained loudly by e-mail and phone, and they credited me the entire fee amount, about $22. I also cancelled overcharge at the bank, so next time they will bounce off the transaction instead of allowing it to go through.

Other than that, I despise eBay for requiring me to accept CC on sales. I could get away with requiring account transfers in the past, but now I must accept CC via PayPal. I hate it. It was scary when I sold a DVR for $300 and the winner had low feedback. But everything worked out okay.

NVPhoto

Canon EOS-40D

Canon EF 50mm f/1.8 II

08/07/2007 03:33:46 PM · #22

there are plenty of safeguards to your problems. First off, don't accept paypal if you don't wnat to accept CCs, make them send you a money order or bank check. Its not as fast, but it is secure.

If you only want high feedback people bidding, state that in your auction. When I sell anything of significant value, I state that anyone w/ less than 10 feedback and 95% positive email me before bidding. I also state that payment must be made within 48 hours of auction close if not, I repost and file a complaint with ebay about the deadbeat bidder.

Ebay is very efficient and safe as long as you take the proper precautions.

Prof_Fate

08/07/2007 04:50:36 PM · #23

Originally posted by Jmnuggy:

Exaclty.
You are taking paypal cause you sell more, make more money. there is more risk, but you've decided the risk is worth the rewards.

Call you local bank - they will set you up a merchant account. So will Costco. There are online alternatives to paypal as well.