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06/27/2007 09:41:34 AM · #1 |
I feel like I should know the answer to this, but I'm a little confused. In Basic Editing, can I apply an adjustment layer with a transparency (in other words, not at 100%)?
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06/27/2007 09:42:58 AM · #2 |
Originally posted by eqsite:
I feel like I should know the answer to this, but I'm a little confused. In Basic Editing, can I apply an adjustment layer with a transparency (in other words, not at 100%)? |
No |
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06/27/2007 09:46:44 AM · #3 |
Yes you can, that's the whole purpose of an adjustment layer.
"use only Adjustment Layers (or their equivalent). An Adjustment Layer is a special type of layer containing no image data that lets you experiment with color and tonal adjustments without permanently modifying the pixels. Adjustment Layers must be applied in Normal mode."
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06/27/2007 09:47:48 AM · #4 |
| Yeah, I would think the answer would be yes. |
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06/27/2007 09:53:42 AM · #5 |
Originally posted by TCGuru:
No |
Originally posted by doctornick:
Yes... |
Originally posted by LanceW:
Yeah... |
LOL! That clears it up :) Is the distinction whether or not the layer contains pixel data? So an adjustment layer does not contain pixel data? Is that correct? |
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06/27/2007 09:57:22 AM · #6 |
Correct. A Photoshop adjustment layer, like hue/saturation, doesn't contain pixel data. And yes, you can set transparency to anything you like. I've had entries validated doing just that, so I'm not guessing here.
For that matter, I don't see where you couldn't set transparency to whatever you want in actual image layers. You have to use normal blending mode, but for example, you could apply various levels of sharpening and then blend them using transparency.
I'll report my own post to see if we can get an SC member to comment.
Message edited by author 2007-06-27 09:58:35.
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06/27/2007 10:04:37 AM · #7 |
Originally posted by levyj413:
For that matter, I don't see where you couldn't set transparency to whatever you want in actual image layers. You have to use normal blending mode, but for example, you could apply various levels of sharpening and then blend them using transparency. |
Are you sure about this bit?
Originally posted by Basic Editing Rules:
You may use only Adjustment Layers (or their equivalent)... |
How does that reconcile with this? |
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06/27/2007 10:06:44 AM · #8 |
Originally posted by levyj413:
Correct. A Photoshop adjustment layer, like hue/saturation, doesn't contain pixel data. And yes, you can set transparency to anything you like. I've had entries validated doing just that, so I'm not guessing here.
For that matter, I don't see where you couldn't set transparency to whatever you want in actual image layers. You have to use normal blending mode, but for example, you could apply various levels of sharpening and then blend them using transparency.
I'll report my own post to see if we can get an SC member to comment. |
You can do that in Advanced/Expert, but not Basic -- you can't have any pixel-containing layers there at all. Oversharpening (or blurring) a copy of the image and then dropping the opacity to let the unsharpened background show through is a pretty common Advanced rules technique. |
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06/27/2007 10:10:44 AM · #9 |
Originally posted by GeneralE:
You can do that in Advanced/Expert, but not Basic -- you can't have any pixel-containing layers there at all. Oversharpening (or blurring) a copy of the image and then dropping the opacity to let the unsharpened background show through is a pretty common Advanced rules technique. |
Thanks. That's what I was afraid of. So, just to be clear, an adjustment layer (Hue/Sat, Curves, Levels, etc.,) is ok to use a transparency, but sharpening, etc., it's not? |
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06/27/2007 10:19:49 AM · #10 |
Originally posted by GeneralE:
Originally posted by levyj413:
Correct. A Photoshop adjustment layer, like hue/saturation, doesn't contain pixel data. And yes, you can set transparency to anything you like. I've had entries validated doing just that, so I'm not guessing here.
For that matter, I don't see where you couldn't set transparency to whatever you want in actual image layers. You have to use normal blending mode, but for example, you could apply various levels of sharpening and then blend them using transparency.
I'll report my own post to see if we can get an SC member to comment. |
You can do that in Advanced/Expert, but not Basic -- you can't have any pixel-containing layers there at all. |
I'm not sure what you mean by "there at all," Paul. I mean, of course you have pixel-containing layers. Otherwise there wouldn't be an image?
Also, can you point to where it says in the basic rules that you may not set opacity below 100%? I read the rules several times but didn't see it.
Thanks!
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06/27/2007 10:24:00 AM · #11 |
Originally posted by Basic Editing Rules:
You may use only Adjustment Layers (or their equivalent)... |
Jeff, from my previous post -- this is the area that I think is causing me confusion. I would interpret this as you can't have any layers other than adjustment layers (with the obvious exception of the base image which is arguably not actually a layer since it doesn't include an alpha channel). |
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06/27/2007 10:27:24 AM · #12 |
| You cannot have any pixel-containing layers except the Background or base layer, or whatever you want to call it. |
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06/27/2007 10:31:15 AM · #13 |
Oh. "You may use only adjustment layers" means "you may not have multiple image layers," I suppose.
Sure could be clearer.
Going back to the reasoning on adjustment layers' opacity, it seems to me that applying half as much adjustment would be the same as setting opacity to 50%, so there's no reason to ban changing opacity.
Message edited by author 2007-06-27 10:34:06.
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06/27/2007 10:33:39 AM · #14 |
Originally posted by levyj413:
Where does it say that? I believe you, and I don't think I've ever done anything other than having my image layer at 100% opacity, but I'm really not seeing it in the rules themselves. |
Here:
use only Adjustment Layers (or their equivalent). An Adjustment Layer is a special type of layer containing no image data that lets you experiment with color and tonal adjustments without permanently modifying the pixels. Adjustment Layers must be applied in Normal mode.
It doesn't necessarily say that you "CAN NOT" use something like a duplicate copy of a layer, but it does say you may "use only Adjustment Layers (or their equivalent). An Adjustment Layer is a special type of layer containing no image data."
The key point there being a layer that contains NO image data.
Message edited by author 2007-06-27 10:34:36. |
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06/27/2007 10:57:01 AM · #15 |
After you make any change in Photoshop, you can immediately (before doing anything else) go to "edit/fade" and fade the opacity of the step you just did. This is effectively the same as duplicating the base layer, applying the change, then fading the duplicate layer.
For example: in my normal workflow I'd duplicate the BG layer, apply sharpening to that duplicate layer, and fade the layer opacity slightly to fine-tune the sharpening. In basic editing, where pixel-containing layers are not allowed, I'd sharpen on the base layer and then used "edit/fade" to accomplish the same thing. Doing it on duplicate layers is somewhat preferable because you can fudge it back and forth as often as you want, whereas the "edit/fade" option is a one-time-only step, but the end result is the same.
R.
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06/27/2007 11:00:36 AM · #16 |
Originally posted by Bear_Music:
After you make any change in Photoshop, you can immediately (before doing anything else) go to "edit/fade" and fade the opacity of the step you just did. This is effectively the same as duplicating the base layer, applying the change, then fading the duplicate layer.
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And this is legal in Basic? If, what it is doing is creating a duplicate layer, applying the change, and then fading the result, why would that be legal? It is creating a pixel-containing layer in the background.
Message edited by author 2007-06-27 11:00:49. |
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06/27/2007 11:56:49 AM · #17 |
Originally posted by eqsite:
Originally posted by Bear_Music:
After you make any change in Photoshop, you can immediately (before doing anything else) go to "edit/fade" and fade the opacity of the step you just did. This is effectively the same as duplicating the base layer, applying the change, then fading the duplicate layer.
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And this is legal in Basic? If, what it is doing is creating a duplicate layer, applying the change, and then fading the result, why would that be legal? It is creating a pixel-containing layer in the background. |
It is legal in Basic. It does not create a layer, it merely cuts back the opacity of the last-applied operation. For operations like gaussian blur or USM, where it's not possible to use an adjustment layer, this is an excellent work-around for Basic. |
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06/27/2007 11:59:39 AM · #18 |
Originally posted by kirbic:
Originally posted by eqsite:
Originally posted by Bear_Music:
After you make any change in Photoshop, you can immediately (before doing anything else) go to "edit/fade" and fade the opacity of the step you just did. This is effectively the same as duplicating the base layer, applying the change, then fading the duplicate layer.
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And this is legal in Basic? If, what it is doing is creating a duplicate layer, applying the change, and then fading the result, why would that be legal? It is creating a pixel-containing layer in the background. |
It is legal in Basic. It does not create a layer, it merely cuts back the opacity of the last-applied operation. For operations like gaussian blur or USM, where it's not possible to use an adjustment layer, this is an excellent work-around for Basic. |
Remember that the mode used while fading needs to be keept at "normal", the same as when using adjustment layers. |
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06/27/2007 12:04:35 PM · #19 |
Originally posted by kirbic:
Originally posted by eqsite:
Originally posted by Bear_Music:
After you make any change in Photoshop, you can immediately (before doing anything else) go to "edit/fade" and fade the opacity of the step you just did. This is effectively the same as duplicating the base layer, applying the change, then fading the duplicate layer.
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And this is legal in Basic? If, what it is doing is creating a duplicate layer, applying the change, and then fading the result, why would that be legal? It is creating a pixel-containing layer in the background. |
It is legal in Basic. It does not create a layer, it merely cuts back the opacity of the last-applied operation. For operations like gaussian blur or USM, where it's not possible to use an adjustment layer, this is an excellent work-around for Basic. |
Right, look at it this way: You don't know how much sharpening you want until you see its effect on the entire image. You have two choices in basic; one is to sharpen "x" amount, apply, examine, if it's too much undo, sharpen "y" amount, apply, examine, if it's too little undo, sharpen "z" amount (somewhere in between), apply, and save.
OR you can sharpen "x" amount (definite oversharpening), apply, and open "edit/fade"; now you have a slider, currently at 100%, and you can slide it back and forth while watching the effect on the entire image. You choose the correct amount, apply it, and save. End result is the same as applying less sharpening to start with, and applying less sharpening is exactly what you are doing here. It's just a very flexible way of fine-tuning. No pixel-containing layers are created.
R.
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06/27/2007 12:17:16 PM · #20 |
Originally posted by ursula:
Remember that the mode used while fading needs to be keept at "normal", the same as when using adjustment layers. |
D'oh! Yes indeed, be careful of this. Thanks Ursula! |
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06/27/2007 12:24:37 PM · #21 |
| this whole thread is making my head spin ... apparently I need a photoshop class! |
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06/27/2007 12:39:50 PM · #22 |
Originally posted by pamelasue:
this whole thread is making my head spin ... apparently I need a photoshop class! |
Pamela,
Open Photoshop and look at the menu bar. See the "edit" menu heading? Click on that and see (probably grayed out) a "fade" command.
Now open an image and go to "filters/sharpen/unsharp mask" and apply some really aggressive sharpening, way too strong. Click the button to apply it.
See your image? Way too sharp right? So before you do anything else, go to the 'edit" menu and the command will say "fade unsharp mask"; click that and you get a slider to reduce the amount of sharpening applied. Slide the slider to the left while looking at the image, and watch it change.
You can do this with virtually every photoshop adjustment you make.
R.
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06/27/2007 12:39:55 PM · #23 |
OK, thanks for the feedback. Now what if I'm not fortunate enough to have photoshop? Does that mean I'm out of luck for this technique, or can I legally achieve the same result by creating a duplicate layer, apply USM, fade the layer (in normal mode), and finally flatten the image?
It seems that if you are going to let me have this nifty shortcut in photoshop, you should let me get the same results without it. |
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06/27/2007 12:41:09 PM · #24 |
Originally posted by eqsite:
OK, thanks for the feedback. Now what if I'm not fortunate enough to have photoshop? Does that mean I'm out of luck for this technique, or can I legally achieve the same result by creating a duplicate layer, apply USM, fade the layer (in normal mode), and finally flatten the image? |
No, that is a pixel bearing layer. |
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06/27/2007 12:44:05 PM · #25 |
Originally posted by eqsite:
OK, thanks for the feedback. Now what if I'm not fortunate enough to have photoshop? Does that mean I'm out of luck for this technique, or can I legally achieve the same result by creating a duplicate layer, apply USM, fade the layer (in normal mode), and finally flatten the image?
It seems that if you are going to let me have this nifty shortcut in photoshop, you should let me get the same results without it. |
You can get the same results by applying less sharpening. If you sharpen and it looks like you went too far, undo and try it again with less sharpening, repeat until you get it right. This isn't a magic button that allows us to do something otherwise illegal, it's just a shortcut that allows us to try out varying degrees of adjustment more quickly.
I agree with you that it makes functional sense to allow us to work with a single duplicate of the BG layer in Basic editing, and to fade that layer then merge into the BG layer when we have it right, but that has been suggested before and SC doesn't think it's a good idea to allow exceptions to the no-pixel-layers-allowed rule.
R.
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