DPL Season 1 Playoffs - DPChallenge Forums

Sony 24-70mm F4 Vario-Tessar T* FE OSS

Canon EF 35mm f/2 IS USM

06/22/2007 01:32:39 PM · #27

some good points ... I'm on a team now, but this will be my last season as I don't really enjoy submitting to challenges that don't interest me. Once I'm no longer on a team, I think I may end up feeling the same way you do ... but I can only speculate.

I feel I have to add, though, that I don't believe that DPC has been hurt in any way by the DPL ... it's just sort of a click within the group, and it always sucks being outside the click (umm ... so I hear)

:)

Originally posted by CEJ:

Originally posted by Sheryll:
In reply to the OP on how DPL is affecting DPC...

But those who choose not to be part of DPL have a better opportunity to grow without DPL members skewing votes and getting lost among 400+ entries when several of them are by already established ribbon winners (ie ribbon hogs et al).

JMO

I somewhat agree with this. DPC is ALREADY a competition site. I really don't understand why it has to be a competition site within a competition site. I find this whole DPL rather a distraction from the true nature of the site. So much so that I procrastinated in renewing my membership to the last minute unsure if I still was comfortable with the atmosphere here. DPL is fine for those who want to participate, but even with its own forum (which I have turned off) the forums I do read STILL seem consumed with DPL related stuff of one form or another.

I am glad that those who participate enjoy it. But some of those of us that don't for whatever reason find the whole thing annoying. For me, it is the most annoying thing here surpassing the threads with people giving us way to much information on their personal lives and pleading for us to participate in those as well through sympathy, advice or whatever. I wish there was a way to turn those off too.

Sorry if that sounds cold. I am not a cold hearted person. Just seems that when I joined here these threads were few and far between and DPL wasn't invented yet. The whole atmosphere in general seemed better, major discussions were still about photography, arguments were about interpreting technicals and not religion or politics, challenge themes made more sense and were generally followed in the submissions, technical challenges were more prevalent.

Bear_Music

Samsung Galaxy S24 Ultra

06/22/2007 01:39:06 PM · #28

One thing that's worth remembering is that when DPC was first started it was pretty much unique. A lot of effort went into making it a special place, but as time went by other sites sprang up that worked on the same principle as DPC. One thing that has kept us empowered is our sense of community. A lot of what CEJ is complaining about has to do with the community aspect of the site, and DPL is definitely a community-bonding experience.

While I agree that DPC, in general, is seeming less "photographic" and more "social" as time goes by, I have enough experience in the world of online communities to know this is pretty much inevitable.

And DPL, whether you love it or hate it, is something WE have that "they" don't have, as yet; it's something that brands us as different from the other competition sites. Since it began as a grass-roots effort that was hosted outside the confines of DPC and piggybacked on the DPC challenges, and since it proved to be wildly popular, I think the enfolding of it into the DPC fabric is a very Good Thing.

R.

Sheryll

Canon EOS-5D Mark II

Canon EF 24-105mm f/4.0L IS

06/22/2007 01:43:37 PM · #29

Originally posted by hopper:

Simply voting everyone low only lowers the average score, it doesn't alter individual placing ... it useless to attempt to cheat this way. People will still place exactly the same, just with a lower score.

Not really. If all but one team (lets say 7 people) all vote the entire challenge with 1-4 scores then it would lower the challenge average (granted only a little) except their own scores which they don't/can't vote on who are not getting those troll votes.

Now I realize that the likelihood of cheating in this manner first of all is even happening and second of all is happening in a way that truly changes overall outcome. But IF it were occurring then the few individuals who may or may not be doing this are still giving a 1-4 vote on a non DPL entry even if it is a 10 image which DOES hurt that entries overall score and if so then that individual doesn't get the true score and the true evaluation of where they stand in there own growth or even their own potential growth.

I don't know maybe I'm all wrong about it but like I said its Just my opinion. I do think that having DPL challenges separate from the general DPC challenges is a good idea. If it does get separated then I have other ideas but as I tend to go long I'll save it for later.

levyj413

Apple iPhone 15 Pro Max

Tamron SP AF 17-50mm f/2.8 Di II LD Aspherical (IF) for Nikon

06/22/2007 01:54:55 PM · #30

Oh - there's really a seeding meaning of A vs. B vs. C? I didn't realize. I thought it was evenly distributed, with the top seeds and the bottom seeds all going into all of the divisions.

Now that I look at the averages, I can see they generally drop from A to B to C, but I didn't notice that before now.

fotomann_forever

06/22/2007 02:07:45 PM · #31

Originally posted by Bear_Music:

Originally posted by fotomann_forever:

Ofcourse if the DPL were in its own challenges it'd be a lot less of an issue.

Not really; the issue here is whether team members show non-DPL images in their private threads.

R.

Regular challenge entries in those private threads could be treated just like they are in public threads now. Removed and reprimanded.

hopper

Canon EF 35mm f/2 IS USM

06/22/2007 02:10:27 PM · #32

I just learned that today myself :)

Originally posted by levyj413:

_eug

Nikon AF Nikkor 50mm f/1.8D

06/22/2007 02:11:01 PM · #33

Originally posted by levyj413:

Now that I look at the averages, I can see they generally drop from A to B to C, but I didn't notice that before now.

Yup. Just like in high school football.

Canon 12x IS USM (S3 IS built-in Lens) -- 36-432mm (35mm EQ)

06/22/2007 02:15:21 PM · #34

Originally posted by levyj413:

Oh - there's really a seeding meaning of A vs. B vs. C? I didn't realize.

Yes, the original intent was to seed the teams within the divisions, with the highest-ranked 24 teams in the A Divisions. I think we're still discussing whether and how to promote/demote teams within existing divisions, or whether they will be entirely reconstituted next season.

Elvis_L

Canon EOS-5D Mark II

Canon EF 17-40mm f/4.0L USM

06/22/2007 02:15:56 PM · #35

I will just go on record that I don't like the tiebreaker scenario. If we win this week we will be tied with the exposed(we are playing them this week) they have a slightly higer avg than us and would get the tiebreaker. How can they go to the playoffs when we beat them?in all sports I know the tiebreaker is first the head to head record, which would be us if we win.

Canon 12x IS USM (S3 IS built-in Lens) -- 36-432mm (35mm EQ)

06/22/2007 02:16:31 PM · #36

Originally posted by fotomann_forever:

Regular challenge entries in those private threads could be treated just like they are in public threads now. Removed and reprimanded.

But the private threads are private, and largely unmonitored.

hopper

Canon EF 35mm f/2 IS USM

06/22/2007 02:18:47 PM · #37

what if 3 teams tie - you beat one and lost to one, but the one you beat beat the team you lost to ... then who wins the tie-breaker?

Originally posted by Elvis_L:

_eug

Nikon AF Nikkor 50mm f/1.8D

06/22/2007 02:20:13 PM · #38

Originally posted by GeneralE:

Originally posted by fotomann_forever:
Regular challenge entries in those private threads could be treated just like they are in public threads now. Removed and reprimanded.

But the private threads are private, and largely unmonitored.

LARGELY? I can understand SC 'monitoring' their team threads, but what other examples would fit here? ;)

Elvis_L

Canon EOS-5D Mark II

Canon EF 17-40mm f/4.0L USM

06/22/2007 02:22:24 PM · #39

Originally posted by hopper:

what if 3 teams tie - you beat one and lost to one, but the one you beat beat the team you lost to ... then who wins the tie-breaker?

Originally posted by Elvis_L:
I will just go on record that I don't like the tiebreaker scenario. If we win this week we will be tied with the exposed(we are playing them this week) they have a slightly higer avg than us and would get the tiebreaker. How can they go to the playoffs when we beat them?in all sports I know the tiebreaker is first the head to head record, which would be us if we win.

there are always levels like first head to head then, score or marign of victory something like that if it gets down to it then a coin flip:)

fotomann_forever

06/22/2007 02:22:49 PM · #40

Originally posted by GeneralE:

But the private threads are private, and largely unmonitored.

Give a few members the ability to look at those threads, but not post. Hit report post.. SC busts in and beats down the bad guys. :-D

Canon 12x IS USM (S3 IS built-in Lens) -- 36-432mm (35mm EQ)

06/22/2007 02:28:05 PM · #41

Originally posted by _eug:

Originally posted by GeneralE:

Originally posted by fotomann_forever:
Regular challenge entries in those private threads could be treated just like they are in public threads now. Removed and reprimanded.

But the private threads are private, and largely unmonitored.

LARGELY? I can understand SC 'monitoring' their team threads, but what other examples would fit here? ;)

Oh I don't know, checking for TOS violations or other rules violations not related to DPL. For example, using it to plan a bank robbery or passing along links to hacked software would be frowned upon.

Not all SC members are on a team, and so have no personal interest in your photos if that's your concern. Otherwise, just don't write anything there you wouldn't want Langdon to read, because he always can eventually ... : )

Strikeslip

Canon EOS-5D

Canon EF 100-400mm f/4.5-5.6L IS

06/22/2007 03:57:25 PM · #42

Originally posted by DrAchoo:

... I do think some sort of wildcard would be nice to allow for teams like Critical Mass and Trigger Happy with incredible team averages to participate in the post-season. It would lengthen the playoff season though and that might be a downside.

Wild Card, Wild Card, Wild Card, Wild Card !

Nuzzer

Canon EOS-7D

Canon EF 24-105mm f/4.0L IS

06/22/2007 03:59:31 PM · #43

Originally posted by Strikeslip:

Originally posted by DrAchoo:
... I do think some sort of wildcard would be nice to allow for teams like Critical Mass and Trigger Happy with incredible team averages to participate in the post-season. It would lengthen the playoff season though and that might be a downside.

Wild Card, Wild Card, Wild Card, Wild Card !

I agree! Wild Card, Wild Card, Wild Card, Wild Card !

thegrandwazoo

Nikon D750

Nikon AF-S NIKKOR 24-70mm f/2.8G ED

06/22/2007 04:01:41 PM · #44

Originally posted by Strikeslip:

Must have been a Freudian slip to forget the Untouchables. We got an "Incredible Team Average" too.

:-P

Message edited by author 2007-06-22 16:01:51.

Strikeslip

Canon EOS-5D

Canon EF 100-400mm f/4.5-5.6L IS

06/22/2007 04:02:00 PM · #45

Originally posted by Nuzzer:

Originally posted by Strikeslip:

Originally posted by DrAchoo:
... I do think some sort of wildcard would be nice to allow for teams like Critical Mass and Trigger Happy with incredible team averages to participate in the post-season. It would lengthen the playoff season though and that might be a downside.

Wild Card, Wild Card, Wild Card, Wild Card !

I agree! Wild Card, Wild Card, Wild Card, Wild Card !

WORD-UP MY BRUTHA !!! :-d

kteach

Nikon AF Zoom-Nikkor 28-80mm f/3.5-5.6

06/22/2007 04:26:21 PM · #46

Originally posted by hopper:

Not being on a team, I think this is how I would feel if I were involved. Why can't we have the community building and learning aspects of the DPL teams where we can share photos, get advice etc., without the pressure of having to submit every week for the extra competition purpose? Is it possible to keep the DPL structure alive and maybe let teams choose to opt in to the DPL competition rounds when they come around? Hope that made sense.

Canon 12x IS USM (S3 IS built-in Lens) -- 36-432mm (35mm EQ)

06/22/2007 04:29:35 PM · #47

Originally posted by kteach:

Why can't we have the community building and learning aspects of the DPL teams where we can share photos, get advice etc., without the pressure of having to submit every week for the extra competition purpose? Is it possible to keep the DPL structure alive and maybe let teams choose to opt in to the DPL competition rounds when they come around? Hope that made sense.

Something like this is part of the discussion of possible changes before we go ahead with Season 2 -- remember that this season was officially a "beta" intended to see where there might be problems or room for improvement.

Melethia

Canon EF 24-105mm f/4.0L IS

06/22/2007 04:34:52 PM · #48

At some point team threads need to be stopped and started again from scratch. I say this because ours is so long that it takes forever to load!

Oh, and I'll add that I think as a result of DPL, I'll have three new entries on my top row after the next two rollover (probably), and a new personal best. So I do think it's a very valuable experience! (It's either DPL or y'all have finally come around to my way of thinking...)

Message edited by author 2007-06-22 16:37:46.

_eug