Attitude adjustment - getting over losing work

06/12/2007 03:34:25 AM · #1

This is partly rant. Be careful if you can't stomach a bit of rant.

Well, just got a call cancelling my second photo shooting gig. It had been a repeat of the first job (see my portfolio if you want to see some of the shots).

The circumstances were like this: School hired a pro photog a 2 years ago to shoot their little kiddie grad show (quite a big deal and entirely unlike anything I've ever heard of in north america - a 4 hour show with plays, music, dancing songs, almost all of which is done by little preschoolers... kinda mindboggling when you watch it). The photog shot film and undoubtedly got majorly screwed by the changing colors of stage lights and probably by the generally difficult shooting conditions and quickly changing action.

Plus he wasn't all that cheap.

One year ago, I went and subbed for 2 weeks at their school as a teacher. I used that money to buy my 30D and took a borrowed lens to shoot the kids... this was my first experience ever with a DSLR or SLR and I had a pretty major learning curve.

A few weeks later, they had their show again and at that time asked me to shoot their pics. I had a pretty low hit rate and didn't get all the kids as a result. Regardless, I still presented 273 images that were what I would call 'acceptable' and what they called 'great'.

I did miss some of the kids, which was somewhat inevitable considering that there are generally about 150 students in the performance and they change costumes probably 8 times during the evening. And a good portion of the kids I only knew for a brief period of time.

I was paid fairly low, but didn't really mind as they simply didn't have any other options for photographers in the area and they weren't going to go with another film shooter... and I only had my DSLR for a little while.

So this year, I got a phone call to go back. But this time, I have a LOT more experience and a better equipment. I am no longer affected by the poor performance of a cheap plastic lens. My hit rate for shots in the last few shows I shot is in the range of 60% with similar lighting conditions. Much better results all around. I can deal with shots in rapid succession MUCH better now and could likely shoot carefully to get as high as 80% for machine gunning the 'principal handing out the diploma' shot at around 1 shot per second for 30 kids in a row for 12 groups of diplomas/kids. I was really looking forward to putting what I have learned into practice for them.

I asked for a bit more money this time.

She said she would think about it.

I got a call today saying that I needn't worry, I don't have to come (I also live 2.5 hours farther away than I did last year), but if I want to come as a guest and watch, I may. Further, I may take pictures if I like, but no cash was offered.

They said that they would get one of their teachers to take pictures. This means 'pocket digicam'.

I am feeling pretty bad that this is viewed as a better option than me shooting with a 50mm f/1.4 USM on my 30D.

I guess that in the end, they will discover so many problems, from battery issues to excessive noise to crappy light from direct flash to poor flash recycle times and mixed color temperatures from the stage lighting and flash... and on and on.

So next year, perhaps I will have recourse to charge a proper rate.

it just makes me feel bad to enter this type of situation where they choose something so inferior. Partly because they simply may not be able to discern the difference between a badly focused, grainy shot because they are just shoving 4x6 prints into albums for the parents.

I feel devalued.

Of course, I keep telling myself to buck up and not get down about it, but it really makes me feel like crap about what I am able to do.

I am not actively presenting myself as a 'professional photographer' at this point, but I do feel that my results are decent and better than what the average person can turn out with a P&S digicam.

How do you view this type of situation so it doesn't bring ya down and you don't get discouraged when it happens to you?

Feel free to give personal experiences.

this is about successes not in photography or in business, but in attitude.

klstover

Panasonic DMC-FZ8

06/12/2007 03:39:58 AM · #2

I don't know anything about the business side of photography. But there's something that's sort of true about life in general. People have unique things they bring to the table. They should be valued for this, but sometimes it gets overlooked because people simply do not appreciate whatever it is that person does well.

Those of us on DPC are generally pretty discerning about photos. Some people are very impressed by shots that would score 4's here. I think this, combined with maybe a bit of a restricted budget, caused your situation. Well, that and probably they did not actually realize the growing that you have done that would make you charge more than what they were expecting. I wouldn't at all assume that they thought less of you as a photographer or anything like that.

06/12/2007 03:41:00 AM · #3

i think your first job with them had yielded only "so-so results" in their minds, and even though you have improved lots since then (and with better gear), to them, you are still the same guy that'd probably produce similar results (or maybe slightly better) because that is how they remembered you by. asking for higher pay on this 2nd job was a mistake. i know i should offer comfort to you but i'm not that good with these kind of stuff. i'm just sharing what i think is happening, and well, it's not your fault. they just think they can produce similar results with their own staff and gear, that's all.

06/12/2007 03:45:06 AM · #4

Originally posted by klstover:

Those of us on DPC are generally pretty discerning about photos. Some people are very impressed by shots that would score 4's here.

this is very true. often, to the average folk out there (and they are the majority, mind you), all that matters is having a photo to capture the moment. noise, loss of details, and many things we are so nit-picky about, meant little to them. i can confirm these because most of my friends are like that. they would drool over phone-cam photos of special moments, but threw only a glance or two at good technical photos that shows something of no value to them.

Message edited by author 2007-06-12 03:45:44.

06/12/2007 04:15:01 AM · #5

quite so. I didn't actually quote a price, I just told them that I would like a bit more. I left it up to them as I did the first time.

I am wondering if I should show up anyhow, take the pictures, then email a couple of samples a couple of weeks after the show. Quote them a price for the DVD of pics...

Then again, what my brain tells me about this is that they will probably be satisfied with the crap photos.

I too feel that perhaps they were only so-so satisfied with the pics last year. The fact that I would likely be able to deliver far better results this year kinda fades into insignificance because I have nothing to found that idea upon in their minds.

hrmph.

Canon EF 24-105mm f/4.0L IS

06/12/2007 04:22:02 AM · #6

Originally posted by eschelar:

I am wondering if I should show up anyhow, take the pictures, then email a couple of samples a couple of weeks after the show. Quote them a price for the DVD of pics...

maybe you should. even if they dont purchase the dvd, at least they know what you could produce (your improvements since the 1st shoot). sometimes, word of mouth helps to promote :)

Melethia

Canon EOS-80D

06/12/2007 04:34:43 AM · #7

I agree. Show up and shoot anyway. For one thing, it's more practice. For another, you could have business cards to give to parents who may be interested in what you've captured. A DVD slide show (not something you could use to print from) is an excellent idea and marketable on its own.

I know it seems odd to say "don't take it personally", but, well, don't take it personally. It's quite possible the school has limited funds to support a "pro" even if you don't consider yourself such.

So go. Have fun. Enjoy the show. Shoot away! And share when you get back. I do remember the shots you did the first time - I thought they were quite delightful!

Tamron AF 28-300mm f/3.5-6.3 XR Di LD Aspherical IF for Canon

06/12/2007 04:38:18 AM · #8

Originally posted by Melethia:

For another, you could have business cards to give to parents who may be interested in what you've captured.

a good advise :) get their contacts and send them parents sample photos too - might turn into a profit ;)

sabphoto

Samsung Galaxy S8/S8+

06/12/2007 04:52:58 AM · #9

similar to what was said by others, I would see if the school would allow you to sell the pictures yourself instead of them paying you. Then maybe as people enter they can receive a bus card or flyer and you would have them posted say on DPCprints where they could buy as much or as little as they desire. This way you can show the school that you have grown and maybe actually make money too. Plus I think if they see your images in addition to the possible lousy P&S shots they may think twice next year and higher you.

pix-al

Canon EOS-5D

06/12/2007 05:00:48 AM · #10

If it is not too much bother for you, I would let them know that you will attend as a guest, with your camera.

Inform them that your shots will be available for a fee should they be dissapointed with the gepgraphy teachers P&S pics.

Attend, send them samples so they can compare to the P&S shots.

If they actually place any value on the quality of the shots they are going to present to parents or whatever, I'm sure they will be on the phone to negotiate with you.

rjkstesch

Nikon D700

Nikon AF-S NIKKOR 24-70mm f/2.8G ED

06/12/2007 08:17:56 AM · #11

Here's a thought. Call them back. Ask to be their exclusive photographer with cards and flyers for the parents. Offer the school a percentage/small fee for the rights of exclusitivity based on the results of sales. Then shoot, including a DVD slideshow of the event, and sale the results.

You win with great shots and exclusitivity, they win with additional revenue, and the parents win with quality shots and a dvd of the performance.

You might even request that parents not be allowed in front of the front row of chairs. Then, only those with decent equipement will get the shots they want, and you'll have the great shots available for a reasonable charge.

Canon EF 300mm f/2.8L IS USM

06/12/2007 09:41:45 AM · #12

great ideas folks... thanks.

I think I will attend with my camera. But I will not share my photos unless asked. I may email some samples depending on how they react.

Just picked up the 50mm f/1.4 and I'm quite confident that with this lens, I would have little trouble of getting results that I would be happy with.

As to costs for the event, I kinda don't think it's a major issue. the school is a major, major cash cow.

Might be fun to shoot the event as an event rather than shooting for individual students. I'll see what happens.

I also told them to test shoot with the little camera they will use to see if the results will be suitable. they will do the test shoot the week before. I still might get a call, but I am not going to hold my breath.

Can't use DPCPrints as I won't have model releases and on top of that, very few of the parents have enough english ability to do something like that. Most are businessmen and a handful of them are doctors. The doctors can handle the english. The businessmen can't.

Will see.

Thanks again for the moral support. :)

Skip

Canon EOS-1D X

06/12/2007 09:42:17 AM · #13

ok, Keiran, first, take a deep, deep breath...

and another one...

this is just a fact of digital life. there are some people out there that truly understand the difference between what a true professional can deliver and what uncle bob can deliver. and there are TONS of people who can't tell the difference.

if you are a professional, and shooting is your livelihood, then you need to be able to weed out those who can tell the difference from those who can't, and you need to be able to do it VERY quickly.

on the other hand, if it's just a matter of picking up some extra glass money from time to time, then it's just like fishing: sometimes you land a keeper, and sometimes all you can do is toss 'em back.

you've gotten some pretty good suggestions for salvaging this situation. it now is a question of what's it worth to you, both in the short run or the long run. do you NEED these images in your portfolio? is there REALLY good money in it? is it REALLY worth your TIME to spend 5+ hours travelling? are you going to pick up some decent portrait or event work as a result of doing this job? if you list out the pros and cons of each suggestion (including a suggestion to simply shrug your shoulders and move on), is there any one compelling suggestion that would make the effort justifiable?

here's a couple more things to consider, business-wise. one, most sales are about relationships, not products, services, or anything else. it's about relationships. once they're established, they have to be maintained--and maintenance is not automatic. two, there is the value of your time. what is the best and worst case scenario for you in driving to that event and shooting it on spec? the big question is, are there any other schools or events CLOSER by that you could do this for?

i'm all for people making money with their cameras--especially people who've pulled them up through the dpc challenge grinder. the trick, though, is to constantly be looking at the big picture so that the little things don't leave you ranting...

good luck!

Prof_Fate

06/12/2007 09:55:49 AM · #14

Sounds like you want to go shoot it and then rub their noses in it - for your ego's sake.
Just let it go. As Skip stated, some folks just don't know the difference, and someone there may have a rebel and kit lens and figure they can do as good a job as you did last year. It's probably not personal even though it feels that way.

I've had similar experiences and at times wonder if I should have take the lower paying wedding, but stick to my resolve and deal with it.

Had one couple referred to me by another photographer - he got sick and has had to take a year off. They like my work better, but said I was too expensive. Turns out I was cheaper than the guy they'd booked and when they booked with me it was above my average...so you never know what people are really thinking vs what they are saying.

nards656

Canon EOS-300D Rebel

Tamron SP AF 24-135mm f/3.5-5.6 AD Aspherical IF for Canon

06/12/2007 10:10:19 AM · #15

Originally posted by Prof_Fate:

... someone there may have a rebel and kit lens and figure they can do as good a job as you did last year.

Can we veil our insults inside the envelope of some other camera, mebbe? Gosh. If I hear "a Rebel and a kit lens" one more time I think I'll go insane.

Tamron SP AF 24-135mm f/3.5-5.6 AD Aspherical IF for Canon

06/12/2007 10:11:07 AM · #16

Thanks for the words prof and skip.

There is a little additional here, I did some teaching work for them in the past and I am viewed as a minor demi-god by the kids. if you recall the description I gave when I wrote of my first set of shots at that school, you may remember that I was swarmed - even mobbed by children 3-6 years old so excessively that there was a real danger of them knocking me down. I'm a pretty big guy and i take a fair bit of knocking to go down... :)

The kids went pretty much crazy for about 20 minutes... like leonardo dicaprio walking down the hall at an all girls junior high school.

heh.

I would like to maintain a good relationship with them. They also employed my sister and took care of her for nearly a year that she lived in a part of non-urban taiwan - particularly important as my sister did not speak chinese at all when she came and folks in that part of TW do NOT usually speak much english if any.

Honestly, I'm not looking for any extra work out that way. It just so happens that I will be a LOT closer to the venue as I have some sub work teaching in Taipei on the days surrounding that weekend, therefore I will already by fairly close. This makes it become more like a 45 minute bus ride each way rather than 5+ hours. However, the money wasn't good last year and it's not likely to be much better this year. it's nowhere near covering any of the costs of my time, but it is a good way to turn my idle time into some income to help cover my equipment costs. i'm currently pulling less than 300 USD a month and the two months that I work during the summer need to go pretty far to bring my savings back up...

Oh and prof. Not really looking to shoot to rub their noses in it. I actually have good feelings towards them and I believe that they extended the invitation for me to go as a guest observer out of genuine good will. If I go to shoot, my view is to go as a safety net. If they don't like it, they have plan b. it will just cost them, that's all. This is why I only might send samples based on how they react... :)

Nards - I don't think there was an insult in there. The Rebel with a kit lens won't come close to what I can do with a 50mm f/1.4 USM, 17-50 f/2.8, 80-200 f/2.8L and a 30D, especially when you consider some post processing experience and dual 4GB cards with a photo bank which will allow me to shoot RAW without thinking twice. Sure, it can get some shots, but results simply will not be anywhere in the same league for consistency. The goal here is to get 2-3 good shots of each kid - many of which will NOT be posing all cutesy at the front of the stage. The conditions for this shoot are quite demanding. Remember too, shooting with a flash is really a bad way to go when people on stage are performing. Very uncouth. not to mention when you need to take a shot faster than one a second.

Message edited by author 2007-06-12 10:19:40.

nards656

Canon EOS-300D Rebel

06/12/2007 11:58:23 AM · #17

Originally posted by eschelar:

Nards - I don't think there was an insult in there. The Rebel with a kit lens won't come close to what I can do with a 50mm f/1.4 USM, 17-50 f/2.8, 80-200 f/2.8L and a 30D, especially when you consider some post processing experience and dual 4GB cards with a photo bank which will allow me to shoot RAW without thinking twice. Sure, it can get some shots, but results simply will not be anywhere in the same league for consistency. The goal here is to get 2-3 good shots of each kid - many of which will NOT be posing all cutesy at the front of the stage. The conditions for this shoot are quite demanding. Remember too, shooting with a flash is really a bad way to go when people on stage are performing. Very uncouth. not to mention when you need to take a shot faster than one a second.

I understand :) Lens envy. I'm not good enough to deserve that kinda stuff yet.