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06/04/2007 08:31:49 PM · #1 |
OK, I'm trying to clean up an image. Most of (if not all) the noise was generated in post.
When I run it through NeatImage, I get these things that look like pits in the image. No matter how many times I run it through again, the pits remain.
Anyone else had this problem?
Anyone know how to fix it?
Thanks.
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06/04/2007 08:34:51 PM · #2 |
Is there anyway you can post the picture?
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06/04/2007 08:41:12 PM · #3 |
| yep there's only so much you can do. I'm using the free version, I'd call them more like jpeg artifacts. |
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06/04/2007 09:09:04 PM · #4 |
| NeatImage (and other digital camera noise reducing programs) are designed to be used to reduce camera noise. When you run them to reduce "other" types of noise, the results can be unpredictable and undesirable. |
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06/04/2007 09:13:46 PM · #5 |
| NI it first to remove the noise you are subsequently amplifying with your processing. Might work out better. Also if you jack the reductions up too high you get some pretty sh*tty effects. Don't know if the freebie has advanced mode where you can bring up the channel window, but using that gives you better insight into exactly where the noise is and more control in reducing it. |
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06/04/2007 09:30:03 PM · #6 |
If you're getting lots of extra noise/artifacts due to processing that means you don't have enough dynamic range in the photo to do what you're trying to do. I would suggest either doing true HDR (w/ bracketed exposures) or exposing to the right more without blowing out the highlights so you can maximize your signal to noise ratio.
If none of that applies then I suggest getting better at masking and applying some aggressive blurs. Remember there's a lot more to masking then simply using black or white. There's grey too many shades of it in fact. Use all three to have your noise reduction effect each area differently. |
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06/04/2007 09:43:35 PM · #7 |
Could it be oversharpening? If you post an image with the problem, I am sure that someone will know what is going on and how to take care of it.
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06/04/2007 09:44:05 PM · #8 |
I've noticed that happen with higher ISO images. Perhaps if it's not too widespread you could try fixing them will a healing brush afterwards.
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06/05/2007 08:31:49 AM · #9 |
#1. NeatImage/noise reduction is a step that must be done as early as possible in the process.
neat Image has been tuned to see noise that a camera makes, not noise that post processing makes. It's really quite different.
Therefore, in order to remove noise created in post, you will need to use MUCH stronger NI than normal.
#2 do what Yanko says. blur layers can do things that NI cannot. do your masking right and you should be able to control things quite well. I've recently been working on improving my skills in this area (not easy IMHO) and have seen marked improvements in the results.
#3 Learn a bit about how Unsharpen Mask works. You might be surprised how much control you can have with a layer of blur, a layer of strong sharpening (even better if you have a layer each for darkening and lightening too), and some simple brushes. Try building a layer from the original JUST of a heavily 'plasticized' NeatImage version and see what you can get with it in that mix.
yeah, it's a bit of a learning curve, but learn it sooner and you will just get better at it. |
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06/05/2007 09:19:14 AM · #10 |
It would be great to create a tutorial (like what Judi did for infrared) for taming the noise in photos via PS and not NI. I for one would love to learn so that I didn't use NI.
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06/05/2007 01:59:49 PM · #11 |
| You cant remove noise that is created when youve used an effect or youve made a lighting effect that has created the noise, its kind of only there because of the effect so to speak. You could try filter > noise > despeckle or dust and scratches |
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06/05/2007 02:20:45 PM · #12 |
For any noise reduction process there is a pixel width over which it operates. Making that wide might be the source of the "pits" you are seeing assuming they have a wider pixel width than the noise you have. That is a common problem.
The question is how to deal with it. If you simply widen the pixel width for noise reduction then you get oversmoothing that has other undesirable side effects.
The fundamental problem is that noise reduction is a battle between eliminating real noise and loss of detail. The more noise you reduce, the more detail you lose. You want to get rid of the noise without losing detail. Those are opposite and incompatible goals.
If you have a lot of electronic noise then the best you can do is balance noise reduction against loss of detail.
If you reduce noise and still have "pits" then you have use the blur tool, by hand, to smooth the pits.
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06/05/2007 08:49:20 PM · #13 |
nicely explained steve.
regarding noise reduction in PS without NI, that's a pretty complicated thing to put into a tutorial for two reasons.
1. everyone does it their own way.
2. each tool for its purpose. nothing wrong with NI. it is just another tool that needs to be learned and used well.
not impossible to do of course...
there's a lot of information in this thread already that you could use though. |
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06/08/2007 06:57:48 AM · #14 |
Just played around a bit with a 0.5 second ISO 1600 image and built myself a new action. I now do this BEFORE any other editing and leave these layers BELOW my adjustment layers... - note the sharpening layers in luminosity mode are NOT legal in BASIC.
From Background layer - Duplicate layer (use right click, not CTRL-J to prevent it getting locked) - Layer name Fuzzy
Repeat. - Layer name Sharpening Base
Apply 'kirbic' sharpening - see below
Layer mode set to luminosity, Opacity to 40% (sharpening base)
Fuzzy layer to NeatImage, strong settings (60%, 100%)
Opacity 70%
Duplicate Fuzzy layer, apply Kirbic Sharpening, Opacity remains at 70%
I have been getting extremely fantastic results from this. Much better than sharpening only after doing the adjustments. If I get a chance, will post 100% crop of this shot, almost straight from camera. Pretty wild IMHO.
"Kirbic" Sharpening is just a name I gave a specific action for sharpening after I brought up the topic around a year or so ago here in the forums.
I believe it is: USM 200 - Threshold 0.3 Radius 2
I'm sorry, don't have specifics, I made it a long time ago from Kirbic's suggestion but it's unimportant, point is, this fairly strong sharpening meant to be faded.
Technically speaking, this method is pretty much how USM works in theory, but by adjusting the opacity of different layers, you can tune the effects very effectively. naturally, layer masks also work quite well, but I haven't used any since I started with this method. it's Very good. |
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