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DPChallenge Forums >> Tips, Tricks, and Q&A >> How do I use Neat Image..
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 06/04/2007 02:11:44 PM · #1
How do I use Neat Image on certain parts of an image.. I see descriptions on how photo's are post processed and it keeps coming up.. Does anyone have a thread saved on this already or a quick lesson on how to do it??? Thanks so much,
Kristin
 06/04/2007 02:14:24 PM · #2
I end up using different layers. Duplicate my image, NI on the top layer and then mask out what I dont want affected. Thats the only way I know how to do it - though not basic legal.
 06/04/2007 02:21:09 PM · #3
lol.. it was your image that I just read that on... That's what made me ask this question.. Thanks for responding so quickly.. I don't know how use NI on just a layer..
How do I do that??? lol..
If it's a lengthy explanation, no need to go into it..(unless of course, you're feeling uber generous with your time today)

I was hoping their was some sort of selection tool I was unaware of within NI so this could be easily done..
 06/04/2007 02:22:45 PM · #4
Can't you just select an area and use it there?

I don't know anything about it..
 06/04/2007 02:24:03 PM · #5
Neat Image your shot but keep the original. Therefore, you have one layer that is the original and one that is the neat imaged one. Then put a layer mask on the neat image layer and paint white where you want the neat inage to show up and black where you do not want the neat image showing through.
 06/04/2007 02:24:59 PM · #6
Originally posted by KelvinC:
Neat Image your shot but keep the original. Therefore, you have one layer that is the original and one that is the neat imaged one. Then put a layer mask on the neat image layer and paint white where you want the neat inage to show up and black where you do not want the neat image showing through.


Brilliant !!!!!!!!! So freakin obvious now that you just explained it to me.. Thanks all...
 06/04/2007 02:29:25 PM · #7
Originally posted by KelvinC:
Neat Image your shot but keep the original. Therefore, you have one layer that is the original and one that is the neat imaged one. Then put a layer mask on the neat image layer and paint white where you want the neat inage to show up and black where you do not want the neat image showing through.


hmmm interesting. I need to learn more about layer masks. I think that's what my boyfriend is always raving about when i just go through and erase parts of a layer and he goes "You're doing it all wrong! agh! there is such a better way!!"

lol.
 06/04/2007 02:32:58 PM · #8
hmm.. I think I am going to have to learn about the layer masks too. I use the erase tool. I thought I was doing it right. LOL.

ok I found the tutorial. I am going to read through it right now.
Layer Mask

Message edited by author 2007-06-04 14:33:58.
 06/04/2007 02:35:46 PM · #9
Originally posted by kandykarml:
How do I use Neat Image on certain parts of an image.. I see descriptions on how photo's are post processed and it keeps coming up.. Does anyone have a thread saved on this already or a quick lesson on how to do it??? Thanks so much,
Kristin

First off, if you own the plugin then then simply make a selection before you invoke Neatimage.

If you are using a free version of Neatimage then duplicate the data layer, invoked Neatimage for smoothing for the most needed area it is needed in the image, then add a Mask to the NeatImaged layer and mask out any over neatimaging that occurs above that.

Message edited by author 2007-06-04 14:40:12.
 06/04/2007 02:37:30 PM · #10
Sorry for not explaining well in my post. I drive my wife nuts trying to explain stuff to her. I always think I am making sense - and yet I rarely do.

My world opened up big time when I discovered layers. But discovering layer masks and how to use them opened up a whole new universe. THere must be some sort of tutorial around here somewhere. I wouldnt know where though.
 06/04/2007 02:41:22 PM · #11
No offence Kristin but in my opinion I'd kill Neat Image completely, I did it years ago. You have more control using Photoshop alone. For example using the Filter/Noise/Median filter on a luminosity mask, or on the image and set the blending mode to "lighten", and then adjust the layer opacity to suit. You have much more control over your image this way. There are many ways to create more subtle "NeatImage" type effects using Photoshop alone.
 06/04/2007 02:48:57 PM · #12
Originally posted by kiwiness:
No offence Kristin but in my opinion I'd kill Neat Image completely, I did it years ago. You have more control using Photoshop alone. For example using the Filter/Noise/Median filter on a luminosity mask, or on the image and set the blending mode to "lighten", and then adjust the layer opacity to suit. You have much more control over your image this way. There are many ways to create more subtle "NeatImage" type effects using Photoshop alone.


I've tried to use the noise filter before without good results cause I don't know how to used right. I will definitely try this. tnx
 06/04/2007 05:06:00 PM · #13
Originally posted by timfythetoo:
Sorry for not explaining well in my post. I drive my wife nuts trying to explain stuff to her. I always think I am making sense - and yet I rarely do.

My world opened up big time when I discovered layers. But discovering layer masks and how to use them opened up a whole new universe. THere must be some sort of tutorial around here somewhere. I wouldnt know where though.


No need to say sorry.. I understand what you meant.. lol.. I'm so new to using layers that it takes explaining it to me as if I were a two year old to really make it click..
 06/04/2007 05:09:07 PM · #14
Originally posted by kiwiness:
No offence Kristin but in my opinion I'd kill Neat Image completely, I did it years ago. You have more control using Photoshop alone. For example using the Filter/Noise/Median filter on a luminosity mask, or on the image and set the blending mode to "lighten", and then adjust the layer opacity to suit. You have much more control over your image this way. There are many ways to create more subtle "NeatImage" type effects using Photoshop alone.


This is really interesting because I've read so many different articles on how great the noise reduction filters are since CS2 came out, and I even have a book that explains how to use them, yet I don't seem to notice any difference in the image.. I could also say the same for advanced smart sharpen too..

The layers & layer mask's are really challenging for me and I really don't understand everything they can do.. Especially when someone throws out "luminosity mask", then I really get lost.. Did you learn these things from any specific tutorials or any books on how to do these things???
 06/04/2007 05:10:34 PM · #15
Originally posted by JenniferDavidGA:
hmm.. I think I am going to have to learn about the layer masks too. I use the erase tool. I thought I was doing it right. LOL.

ok I found the tutorial. I am going to read through it right now.
Layer Mask


Thank you for providing this link... I just saved it to my fav's and will go through it when I have time today..
 06/04/2007 05:13:15 PM · #16
I'm not too good with photoshop but it seems there must be a way to use the history brush to do this. anyone know how?
 06/04/2007 05:50:51 PM · #17
Originally posted by kiwiness:
No offence Kristin but in my opinion I'd kill Neat Image completely, I did it years ago. You have more control using Photoshop alone. For example using the Filter/Noise/Median filter on a luminosity mask, or on the image and set the blending mode to "lighten", and then adjust the layer opacity to suit. You have much more control over your image this way. There are many ways to create more subtle "NeatImage" type effects using Photoshop alone.

Be it for lowly me to disagree with the great and powerful kiwiness whose rarely ever wrong, but this is what I've found...

There are two major types of electronic noise in an image... artifact noise and color noise. NeatImage still outshines CS2 for aritfact noise reduction, but CS2 is the hands down winner for color noise reduction.

This assumes that you are using them for their intended purpose, noise reduction, and not as effects filters.

Gary has probably just gotten used to having great cameras where noise reduction is rarely a problem. :)
 06/04/2007 08:11:58 PM · #18
Something that I was wondering about was if it is best to use Neat Image before doing any editing or if it is best to do it after all the editing is done?
 06/04/2007 08:29:27 PM · #19
Originally posted by kiwiness:
No offence Kristin but in my opinion I'd kill Neat Image completely, I did it years ago. You have more control using Photoshop alone. For example using the Filter/Noise/Median filter on a luminosity mask, or on the image and set the blending mode to "lighten", and then adjust the layer opacity to suit. You have much more control over your image this way. There are many ways to create more subtle "NeatImage" type effects using Photoshop alone.


This would not be legal in basic editing due to the blending mode.
 06/04/2007 08:32:43 PM · #20
Originally posted by KelvinC:
Something that I was wondering about was if it is best to use Neat Image before doing any editing or if it is best to do it after all the editing is done?


normally after the editing is done - editing brings out noise - just accentuate an S-curve and you will see what i mean. so even if you have the pro version then doing it on a full size image before resize isnt going to do much, and if you have the non-pro test version which you can use for anything up to 1000px then the choice is obvious... after editing. At least that is when i do it - if i need to anyway.

ETA - also i find it is always a good idea to flatten an image before you apply NeatImage, that way the profile you build is editing specific and more exact.

Message edited by author 2007-06-04 20:34:04.
 06/04/2007 08:35:09 PM · #21
Originally posted by mad_brewer:
Originally posted by kiwiness:
No offence Kristin but in my opinion I'd kill Neat Image completely, I did it years ago. You have more control using Photoshop alone. For example using the Filter/Noise/Median filter on a luminosity mask, or on the image and set the blending mode to "lighten", and then adjust the layer opacity to suit. You have much more control over your image this way. There are many ways to create more subtle "NeatImage" type effects using Photoshop alone.


This would not be legal in basic editing due to the blending mode.


If you switch to LAB (i.e. image/mode/lab) you could then just apply it to the Luminousity Channel which I believe would be legal under basic. If I recall someone a while back asked if they could blur the blue channel in RGB in basic and was told yes but I could be thinking of something else so I may be wrong.

ETA: I don't think that would be a good way to apply it anyway. When I do noise reduction and apply it selectively I normally just focus on the dark areas.

Message edited by author 2007-06-04 20:36:17.
 06/04/2007 08:36:14 PM · #22
Originally posted by inshaala:
Originally posted by KelvinC:
Something that I was wondering about was if it is best to use Neat Image before doing any editing or if it is best to do it after all the editing is done?


normally after the editing is done - editing brings out noise - just accentuate an S-curve and you will see what i mean. so even if you have the pro version then doing it on a full size image before resize isnt going to do much, and if you have the non-pro test version which you can use for anything up to 1000px then the choice is obvious... after editing. At least that is when i do it - if i need to anyway.

ETA - also i find it is always a good idea to flatten an image before you apply NeatImage, that way the profile you build is editing specific and more exact.


Thanks. :)
 06/04/2007 08:46:11 PM · #23
Originally posted by KelvinC:
Neat Image your shot but keep the original. Therefore, you have one layer that is the original and one that is the neat imaged one. Then put a layer mask on the neat image layer and paint white where you want the neat inage to show up and black where you do not want the neat image showing through.


I usually use NI this way, but I don't bother masking anything off. I never really saw the point in only doing part of it. What is the point in doing that again?
 06/04/2007 08:52:45 PM · #24
Originally posted by wavelength:
Originally posted by KelvinC:
Neat Image your shot but keep the original. Therefore, you have one layer that is the original and one that is the neat imaged one. Then put a layer mask on the neat image layer and paint white where you want the neat inage to show up and black where you do not want the neat image showing through.


I usually use NI this way, but I don't bother masking anything off. I never really saw the point in only doing part of it. What is the point in doing that again?


NI can reduce detail in an image (it effectively (speaking very broadly here) blurs pixellation) so if you have an expanse of sky with a lot of noise - say you are taking a long exposure of a sunset with trees silhouetted and/or in detail - then NeatImaging the whole picture without a mask would just get rid of detail you want to keep in the trees whilst giving you the reduction of noise in the sky. Masking gets the best of both worlds where the noise isnt so apparent in the detail of the trees.
 06/04/2007 09:00:36 PM · #25
Originally posted by inshaala:
Originally posted by wavelength:
Originally posted by KelvinC:
Neat Image your shot but keep the original. Therefore, you have one layer that is the original and one that is the neat imaged one. Then put a layer mask on the neat image layer and paint white where you want the neat inage to show up and black where you do not want the neat image showing through.


I usually use NI this way, but I don't bother masking anything off. I never really saw the point in only doing part of it. What is the point in doing that again?


NI can reduce detail in an image (it effectively (speaking very broadly here) blurs pixellation) so if you have an expanse of sky with a lot of noise - say you are taking a long exposure of a sunset with trees silhouetted and/or in detail - then NeatImaging the whole picture without a mask would just get rid of detail you want to keep in the trees whilst giving you the reduction of noise in the sky. Masking gets the best of both worlds where the noise isnt so apparent in the detail of the trees.


I know what NI does. If you're pushing it that far, IMO you're just using it wrong. Guess that's why I never have to mask things, I'm not using it at plasticized levels.
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