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06/02/2007 01:35:16 PM · #201 |
Originally posted by Zeuss:
All references are weak. But the Bible is fantasy.
You expect me to believe Jesus was born of a virgin impregnated by a ghost? Do you believe all the crazy tales of ancient religions? Julius Caesar was reportedly born of a virgin; Roman historian Seutonius said Augustus bodily rose to heaven when he died; and Buddha was supposedly born speaking. You don’t believe all that, do you? Why do you expect me to swallow the fables of Christianity?
I find it incredible that you ask me to believe:
- that the earth was created in six literal days;
- that woman came from man’s rib;
- that a snake, a donkey, and a burning bush spoke human language;
- that the entire world was flooded covering the mountains to drown evil;
- that all animal species, millions of them, rode on one boat;
- that language variations stem from the tower of Babel;
- that Moses had a magic wand;
- that the Nile turned to blood;
- that a stick turned into a snake;
- that witches, wizards, and sorcerers really exist;
- that food rained from the sky for forty years;
- that people were cured from the sight of a brass serpent;
- that the sun stood still to help Joshua win a battle, and it went backward for King Hezekiah;
- that men survived unaided in a fiery furnace;
- that a detached hand floated in the air and wrote on a wall;
- that men followed a star which directed them to a particular house;
- that Jesus walked on water unaided;
- that fish and bread magically multiplied to feed the hungry;
- that water instantly turned into wine;
- that mental illness is caused by demons;
- that a “devil” with wings exists who causes evil;
- that people were healed by stepping into a pool agitated by angels;
- that disembodied voices spoke from the sky;
- that Jesus vanished and later materialized from thin air;
- that people were healed by Peter’s shadow;
- that angels broke people out of jail;
- that a fiery lake of eternal torment awaits unbelievers under the earth â€Â¦ while there is life-after-death in a city which is 1500 miles cubed, with mansions and food, for Christians only.
Fantasy. But some people base their lives on it.
Carl |
Sounds crazy doesn't it? Know what else sounds crazy?
A cosmic explosion created our universe. What could've created the primevil atom that exploded?
A self replicating molecule created life. What could've created the self replicating molecule?
Crap, I'm bored already. I guess what I'm saying is that no matter what you believe, you must have faith. Faith that there is a God or faith that there isn't and even though there is absolutely NO PROOF either way, it is entirely up to the individual to believe what s/he chooses. I think both sides should learn to be more tolerant of each other as the way they come across at times makes me wish neither of them were right. |
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06/02/2007 05:08:29 PM · #202 |
Originally posted by dudephil:
Originally posted by Zeuss:
All references are weak. But the Bible is fantasy.
You expect me to believe Jesus was born of a virgin impregnated by a ghost? Do you believe all the crazy tales of ancient religions? Julius Caesar was reportedly born of a virgin; Roman historian Seutonius said Augustus bodily rose to heaven when he died; and Buddha was supposedly born speaking. You don’t believe all that, do you? Why do you expect me to swallow the fables of Christianity?
I find it incredible that you ask me to believe:
- that the earth was created in six literal days;
- that woman came from man’s rib;
- that a snake, a donkey, and a burning bush spoke human language;
- that the entire world was flooded covering the mountains to drown evil;
- that all animal species, millions of them, rode on one boat;
- that language variations stem from the tower of Babel;
- that Moses had a magic wand;
- that the Nile turned to blood;
- that a stick turned into a snake;
- that witches, wizards, and sorcerers really exist;
- that food rained from the sky for forty years;
- that people were cured from the sight of a brass serpent;
- that the sun stood still to help Joshua win a battle, and it went backward for King Hezekiah;
- that men survived unaided in a fiery furnace;
- that a detached hand floated in the air and wrote on a wall;
- that men followed a star which directed them to a particular house;
- that Jesus walked on water unaided;
- that fish and bread magically multiplied to feed the hungry;
- that water instantly turned into wine;
- that mental illness is caused by demons;
- that a “devil” with wings exists who causes evil;
- that people were healed by stepping into a pool agitated by angels;
- that disembodied voices spoke from the sky;
- that Jesus vanished and later materialized from thin air;
- that people were healed by Peter’s shadow;
- that angels broke people out of jail;
- that a fiery lake of eternal torment awaits unbelievers under the earth â€Â¦ while there is life-after-death in a city which is 1500 miles cubed, with mansions and food, for Christians only.
Fantasy. But some people base their lives on it.
Carl |
Sounds crazy doesn't it? Know what else sounds crazy?
A cosmic explosion created our universe. What could've created the primevil atom that exploded?
A self replicating molecule created life. What could've created the self replicating molecule?
Crap, I'm bored already. I guess what I'm saying is that no matter what you believe, you must have faith. Faith that there is a God or faith that there isn't and even though there is absolutely NO PROOF either way, it is entirely up to the individual to believe what s/he chooses. I think both sides should learn to be more tolerant of each other as the way they come across at times makes me wish neither of them were right. |
Agreed. Until we know, we don't know.
Carl
"Can't we all just get along?"
- Rodney King
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06/02/2007 05:23:28 PM · #203 |
Originally posted by Zeuss:
I find it incredible that you ask me to believe: |
Please quote the post where Matthew asks you to believe anything at all, let alone any single item from your long list.
The trouble with all of your arguments thus far, in my view, is that you are determined to merely react to the already-established status quo of belief, instead of taking on any particular point anyone here has made, or using well thought-out and reasoned arguments to deconstruct others' reactionary statements. This makes you as shrill as the god believers. |
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06/05/2007 06:35:48 AM · #204 |
Originally posted by Zeuss:
Agreed. Until we know, we don't know.
Carl
"Can't we all just get along?"
- Rodney King |
Zeuss - I am a strong atheist and pragmatist - I don't believe in any of the things in your long list. My point was that holding up a book that the authors admit is highly inaccurate as being better than the bible is foolish and undermines your argument.
I also disagree that we cannot know things about the universe. If you read some of the more accessible books on the history of scientific development (I would recommend Big Bang by Simon Singh or Bill Bryson's book Short History of Nearly Everything). We can see evidence of things like the big bang - eg the echo. We don't need to observe everything to know it happened. While it might not explain things like what happened before the big bang, we can get fairly comfortable that this is how the universe started.
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