selective desaturation breeds mediocrity

Olympus 40-150mm f/2.8 PRO M.Zuiko

05/21/2007 11:51:45 PM · #1

ok, I'm sure that got some people's attention...

BUT HEAR ME OUT

I've never been a fan of this technique - possibly instigated by the posters in my high school councilors office of black and white little boys handing black and white little girls a full colour rose, next to the poster of the kitten dangling from a tree limb proclaiming they 'don't do mondays'. *shudder*

Overcoming my previous misgivings, I grudgingly acknowledged some truly remarkable photographs in this challenge, however, I was struck by something else, and that is - how many truly mediocre (for some, this is very generous) photographs there were here, with the artist no doubt thinking, by making most aspects of the photograph black and white, and leaving some small portion colour, it will magically transport the image into the realm of good photography. This is not the case. Please, take a look at your photograph before desaturating it selectively. If it doesn't look like a photograph you would submit to a challenge before using this technique, chances are it won't be a winner (which contradictoraly, doesn't constitute good photography all of the time).

Phew, thank you for letting me vent. Hate mail starts - now...

Brad

Olympus OM-D E-M1

05/21/2007 11:55:47 PM · #2

Again ??

Canon EF 17-40mm f/4.0L USM

05/21/2007 11:59:02 PM · #3

In all hoesty, I was a bit disappointed that the last thread on this topic was locked before I could post something, and it was becoming a rather interesting topic. So sorry to bore you, but I think my post was put a bit more diplomatically than the last thread starter.

JamesKW

Canon EOS-5D

05/22/2007 12:03:00 AM · #4

No hate mail from me...I will state it here. I just love these post where someone rags on someone else's photograph as not being good photography. I almost left this site because of this exact kind of post. Well keep letting us know how bad we are, because I don't give a rats @$$. I have come to enjoy what I do for me and for those who are helpful in there comments and allow me to learn more about this great big world of photography. And yes

Brad, it always come up from someone. That's just my opinion, since we all have one:)

Message edited by author 2007-05-22 00:05:50.

Ivory

Canon EOS-300D Rebel

Canon EF-S 18-55mm f/3.5-5.6

05/22/2007 12:04:51 AM · #5

For a totally different perspective and point of view I love selective desat and always have. When its well done it looks amazing and in my opinion there are some very well done shots in this challenge!

Monique64

Canon EOS-30D

Canon EF-S 17-85mm f/4-5.6 IS USM

05/22/2007 12:05:21 AM · #6

I have to admit I was thinking along the same lines. I have only voted on half so far but found there are quite a few that look just like they were taken quickly, without much thought to composition and light in the hopes that desaturating it would make all the difference and hide the parts that aren't too good. There are some really great photos, some crappy ones and a lot that just seem to float around in the middle that dont have the pizzaz, but could have been oh-so-good with a better crop or a better contrast. Mind you I do have a picture in this challenge so hope that others dont feel my photo falls into this catergory (I dont think it does). There are lots that are better than mine.

P.S. I do love desaturated photos but feel that they require a lot more thought than some people realise.

Message edited by author 2007-05-22 00:06:28.

Sigma 28-105mm f/2.8-4.0 Aspherical for Canon

05/22/2007 12:09:09 AM · #7

Originally posted by Monique64:

P.S. I do love desaturated photos but feel that they require a lot more thought than some people realise.

Exactly my point, in a much more diplomatic nutshell

Rooster

Canon EOS-400D Rebel XTi

05/22/2007 12:11:30 AM · #8

I never had guidance councilors with posters like those so I guess I'm less traumatised than you. But thanks for sharing your pain. God knows there isn't enough pain out there in the world so thanks for giving us a taste of yours.

All I can say is the best fotogs here never feel the need to diss others shots. The not-so-great fotogs here always feel the need to... well you get where I'm going with this, yeah?

Not trying to pick one with you here but thought I would fulfill your manifest destiny created by your post.

CHEERS!

Message edited by author 2007-05-22 00:12:13.

taterbug

Nikon D300

Nikon AF Nikkor 50mm f/1.4D

05/22/2007 12:14:44 AM · #9

Boy, I've heard a lot of people expressing similar thoughts on this. I think there are some factors not being considered here. A big one- it's a SELECTIVE DESAT CHALLENGE!!!! Ya had to do sd to enter it :-) Remember, there is a large degree of skill levels on the site. This may have been the first time trying this technique for a lot of people. Some people may actually like sd, and this gave them a good op to do it. This is the first member challenge for WPL. There are 72 teams of 5-7 people. Yes, a lot of people may have felt pressured to enter at least something.

Almost 600 entries, yeah, there is probably a lot of mediocrity there. There is in almost any large challenge. So vote 'em a 5, or 4 or 6, or however one's voting scale works and so be it. And if someone feels so put off by sd, don't vote on it! You know, if you hate flower shots, don't vote in a flower challenge :-)

TooCool

Canon EOS-300D Rebel

Canon EF 50mm f/1.8 II

05/22/2007 12:17:37 AM · #10

Originally posted by taterbug:

You know, if you hate flower shots, don't vote in a flower challenge :-)

But there's always that one damn good flower shot that ya might miss...

yanko

Canon EOS-5D Mark II

Carl Zeiss 50mm ZE f/1.4 Planar T for Canon

05/22/2007 12:21:05 AM · #11

Well I pulled my entry since I think it flew over people's heads or was just plain crap. Either way it's one less to worry about.

Nikon AF Nikkor 50mm f/1.4D

05/22/2007 12:21:16 AM · #12

Originally posted by taterbug:

I think there are some factors not being considered here. A big one- it's a SELECTIVE DESAT CHALLENGE!!!!

Of course you made an extremely valid point here bug - and what I was trying to say with my first post was that I have truly learned to enjoy a well composed selective desat. image, however, I think my initial point stands as well. Too many people think of this as a way to turn a not-so-well composed image into an interesting photograph, which just doesn't work.

Just a not-so-great fotog feeling the need to... well you know where I'm going with this

Message edited by author 2007-05-22 00:25:15.

fotomann_forever

05/22/2007 12:21:20 AM · #13

On my way out the door all I will say is:

Opinions are like assholes; everyone has one and they all stink.

taterbug

Nikon D300

05/22/2007 12:27:09 AM · #14

Originally posted by fotomann_forever:

On my way out the door all I will say is:

Opinions are like assholes; everyone has one and they all stink.

Mine doesn't :-) I douse it daily with Eau de Toilette ! :-)

Brad

Olympus OM-D E-M1

Olympus 40-150mm f/2.8 PRO M.Zuiko

05/22/2007 12:38:49 AM · #15

Sometimes, and I do mean sometimes, people enter a challenge for the trial and error of attempting something new.
It's a learning process. For some it will be a painful one.

Oh and

taterbug - that is just a "little" too much information - lol
(or is it from the splashes)

Message edited by author 2007-05-22 00:39:33.

scalvert

Canon EOS-5D Mark III

Canon EF 24-105mm f/4.0L IS

05/22/2007 12:39:11 AM · #16

Originally posted by yanko:

Well I pulled my entry since I think it flew over people's heads or was just plain crap.

Maybe both, but fortunately I was wearing a hat. ;-P

scalvert

Canon EOS-5D Mark III

Canon EF 24-105mm f/4.0L IS

05/22/2007 12:46:36 AM · #17

I'm not a big fan of SD either, but one of the reasons this site exists is to encourage people to explore techniques that they might not otherwise try (or even appreciate). That's why we have challenges like Image Grain and Soft Focus. As with those, some/many/most people will just take an unremarkable photo and desaturate it for the sake of desaturating it. We can't reasonably expect 500 museum-quality entries. It's a learning process for some that makes the exceptional photos shine that much brighter, and sometimes it's not even the winners at the finish line, but the journey itself that is most worthwhile.

FWIW, two of my lowest scores ever were in Selective Desaturation and Image Grain. :-/

thegrandwazoo

Nikon D750

Nikon AF-S NIKKOR 24-70mm f/2.8G ED

05/22/2007 12:51:14 AM · #18

All these threads started over my image. I get it already you hate it...

:-P

yanko

Canon EOS-5D Mark II

Carl Zeiss 50mm ZE f/1.4 Planar T for Canon

05/22/2007 12:51:38 AM · #19

Originally posted by scalvert:

Originally posted by yanko:
Well I pulled my entry since I think it flew over people's heads or was just plain crap.

Maybe both, but fortunately I was wearing a hat. ;-P

I will try to be more accurate and hit flesh with my poo tossing. :P

_eug

Nikon D50

Nikon AF Nikkor 50mm f/1.8D

05/22/2007 12:51:40 AM · #20

Originally posted by scalvert:

We can't reasonably expect 500 museum-quality entries.

Well, why the heck not? ;)

Marc923

05/22/2007 12:52:39 AM · #21

Originally posted by thegrandwazoo:

All these threads started over my image. I get it already you hate it...

:-P

No, I really think it's all about my boring mediocre picture.

khdoss

Nikon D300

Sigma 30mm f/1.4 EX DC HSM for Nikon

05/22/2007 12:54:16 AM · #22

Can someone please explain exactly what selective desat means?
Because I could have sworn that it meant that there are some areas that are desat and some that are color. Is there a ratio at which it is suddenly does not meet the challenge? Is it 60/40 70/30..?

This is a serious question because I am seeing so many low scores comments from some awesome photogs.

I am one of the people who has never done a desat, and after reading and looking at other challenges, I thought I knew what I was doing..
I guess I was wrong...

Brad

Olympus OM-D E-M1

Olympus 40-150mm f/2.8 PRO M.Zuiko

05/22/2007 01:02:08 AM · #23

Originally posted by khdoss:

Karen,
There is no formula. There is no percentage - it can be a very small portion of an image that is in color of even a large portion of it. It can be a whole thing in it's natural colors or it can be a single color remaining in just a part of the image.
It has to do more with how does the overall effect look and feel. Does it look like a random item was left in color just because or is it something to draw the eye to or create a mood. It can be very bold or a subtle effect.
Sometimes taking a shot with selective desat in mind is a flop, and other times, a random, boring shot can completely change when one element of it is remaining in color.
At least that's my take on it.

jackal9

Canon EOS-50D

Canon EF 28-135mm f/3.5-5.6 IS USM

05/22/2007 01:02:21 AM · #24

Originally posted by JamesKW:

Yep, gotta agree! sorry we can't all be Ansel Adams, some of us (many I suspect) are here to learn and have fun doing what we love, if we don't meet some pie in the sky standard so be it...thats kinda why I'm here to learn, have fun and get better. Selective Desat. is something you like or you don't...if ya don't then don't enter or vote, I don't see the problem.