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DPChallenge Forums >> Challenge Results >> It's time now the league is going
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 05/21/2007 09:51:49 AM · #1
Well many if not most are seeing scores that are nowhere in the normal area since the new league started. People here take this far too serious and it shows in the way they score. With 72 teams in the league it makes "unbiased" voting difficult for many and in this case a majority it seems. The need to win is too strong. Yes I know there are a few who continue to vote as they have always, thanks to you from everyone at DPC. For those who are voting even .1 lower .... shame on you.
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Maybe time for a voting revision. Let's keep this thread on line with valid suggestios only that the SC's can kick around. So here's mine.
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1. Use the existing SC's to establish a vote benchmark for each challenge. Ensure that the SC's will vote fair on the quality of the entry only. Must have at least 12 unbiased votes to establish a benchmark score. This can be done anytime during the voting and is not shown to anyone at anytime.
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2. When the voting is finished and before the scores are tabulated all DPC votes that are more than 2 points either side of the benchmark are thrown out. This completely eliminates troll votes and friend votes. It still gives a 4 point spread of valid votes to be tabulated.
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So can we trust the SC's to be fair, I think so, again they cannot vote on teammates photos either during the benchmarking. This way all DPC members can participate in voting but an impartial standard is set based on the entry, not on keeping scores low in hopes your team will win. Afterall, if all scores go up equally the same outcome in winners but we're not all backstabbing each other like it appears now..
 05/21/2007 09:59:34 AM · #2
Eliminate one high, and one low vote as they do in gymnastics.
 05/21/2007 10:02:30 AM · #3
I think it's extremely premature to "insinuate" that the overall voting averages are down. Let's have a look at the next few challenges, before making any assumptions.
 05/21/2007 10:07:00 AM · #4
Originally posted by tooohip:
I think it's extremely premature to "insinuate" that the overall voting averages are down. Let's have a look at the next few challenges, before making any assumptions.


Exactly what I was going to say. Except I'm going to add "Sheesh."
 05/21/2007 10:09:17 AM · #5
Originally posted by levyj413:
Originally posted by tooohip:
I think it's extremely premature to "insinuate" that the overall voting averages are down. Let's have a look at the next few challenges, before making any assumptions.


Exactly what I was going to say. Except I'm going to add "Sheesh."


Allow me, SHEESH!
 05/21/2007 10:17:55 AM · #6
Remember that scores are almost always low the first night. I don't know why, but it's been true for every challenge since I joined a year ago.

I take your concern seriously, but I'm equally serious in suggesting that we wait a few challenges, and see what happens. There really are low-scoring challenges. Heck, my 3rd-highest placement ever (15th), and 2nd-highest percentile ever (94%), came on my Bits & Pieces entry: 6.0346.

Message edited by author 2007-05-21 10:22:14.
 05/21/2007 10:26:41 AM · #7
I can name 5 people who are doing their personal worst right now for no reason at all.

Me im doing above my average around what im shooting these days. solid 5.0.... go team 5.0!
 05/21/2007 10:27:50 AM · #8
There's also this: selective desaturation is generally kind of tacky. It's hard to vote high on a "good" photo when it looks like the kind of thing one would purchase in the center of the mall. {ducks and runs}
 05/21/2007 10:33:05 AM · #9
I agree â€Â¦ it's an interesting (if not difficult) challenge to take a photogrpah that is worthy of this sort of edit without it seeming "tacky" as you say.

Originally posted by citymars:
There's also this: selective desaturation is generally kind of tacky. It's hard to vote high on a "good" photo when it looks like the kind of thing one would purchase in the center of the mall. {ducks and runs}
05/21/2007 10:33:37 AM · #10
It's ok, instead of suggestions to be a "Team", to encourage and build up others, to help others grow and enjoy the experience, to pat others on the back, to be a "good Samaritan" it's easier to just be sarcastic and childish. I've been in jobs where this kind of behaviour is common, it's called the Military, industry and big business where people feel it's easier to stab in the back that just do good themself for promotions and raises. Many feel that holding everyone back is better because it narrows the field to a lower more compact level of performance. Read the forums, it is happening here more now than before. Troll and friend voting has been a BIG problem here at DPC as can be seen by programs in place to try to eliminate some of it. It is real or there would not be ways to slow it down within the scoring program.
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Instead of being childish put a program together that will compare past voting averages on all members and compare it to the first league vote. Then if there is no difference I will SHEESH with ya. Based on furum comments the exit polls are saying the legue voting is way below standard.

So either come up with a way to prove that the dozens of comments in the forums are unfounded or suggest a solution. We would love to see a statistical breakdown at the end of this challenge. The first suggestion was strickly based on dozens of furum comments made in the last 9 hours. Childish attacks for a simple suggestion is unwarranted.
 05/21/2007 10:37:45 AM · #11
I must add that the previous "De. Sat" challenge had a blue ribbon score of 7.25. So as "tacky" as the challenge idea was, everyone seemed to vote much higher on it then than now. This is just based on looking at the forum and seeing many high-scorers with a not-so-good score. I agree with you PhantomEWO. Sheesh!
 05/21/2007 10:38:26 AM · #12
Originally posted by PhantomEWO:
So either come up with a way to prove that the dozens of comments in the forums are unfounded or suggest a solution.


First, I guess you didn't see my followup, where I mentioned other low-scoring challenges.

Second, my suggestion for the solution AND the proof is to wait a few challenges and see what happens. Someone on my team is running nearly a point above average in selective desat. So is the voting high or low?

The problem right now is sample size. In particular, one sample does not allow you to draw conclusions. On the other hand, if the average vote given by all DPL members over, say, 10 challenges, is significantly below the same average of the 10 challenges immediately preceding DPL, then you have an argument.
 05/21/2007 10:40:18 AM · #13
Originally posted by daboardergirl:
I must add that the previous "De. Sat" challenge had a blue ribbon score of 7.25. So as "tacky" as the challenge idea was, everyone seemed to vote much higher on it then than now.


Yet the average was only 5.24, which is a low average. In fact, you have to go back to the end of Feb. to find another challenge with such a low average score.
 05/21/2007 10:41:31 AM · #14
Originally posted by PhantomEWO:
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Childish attacks for a simple suggestion is unwarranted.


I didn't see any childish attacks here at all.
 05/21/2007 10:46:15 AM · #15
I suggest the site administration takes a good look at what is going on after 6 challenges or so.


05/21/2007 10:47:01 AM · #16
Originally posted by daboardergirl:
I must add that the previous "De. Sat" challenge had a blue ribbon score of 7.25. So as "tacky" as the challenge idea was, everyone seemed to vote much higher on it then than now. This is just based on looking at the forum and seeing many high-scorers with a not-so-good score. I agree with you PhantomEWO. Sheesh!


Hate to tel you but look around thats was 2004. The member challenge that appeared after it also ribboned a 7.2. Had nothing todo witht he challenge. The open challenge after that also scored a 7.4.

I think that was the going rate then?

Message edited by author 2007-05-21 10:47:30.
 05/21/2007 10:49:53 AM · #17
Originally posted by RainMotorsports:
Originally posted by daboardergirl:
I must add that the previous "De. Sat" challenge had a blue ribbon score of 7.25. So as "tacky" as the challenge idea was, everyone seemed to vote much higher on it then than now. This is just based on looking at the forum and seeing many high-scorers with a not-so-good score. I agree with you PhantomEWO. Sheesh!


Hate to tel you but look around thats was 2004. The member challenge that appeared after it also ribboned a 7.2. Had nothing todo witht he challenge. The open challenge after that also scored a 7.4.

I think that was the going rate then?


That sort of is my point. But this is a "beat the dead horse" topic. Anyways..everything seems lower than usual now which is my concern.
 05/21/2007 10:50:37 AM · #18
I won't change my way of voting because DPL. Our team is only playing a single team so I don't think it is worth lowering everyone score to try to affect the few pictures from the opposing team. Anyway, on this challenge I'm doing slightly above my average ;). Not an awesome score but a nice one.
 05/21/2007 10:52:39 AM · #19
There are many variables - what's entered and who's voting and how. Because this is the first contest of the DPL, everyone felt obligated to enter something. This may have resulted in a larger percentage of mediocre (or worse) entries. There may also be more and different voters than usual. And then, there is the competition issue. But overall, this is a new animal. DPL is much more prominent than WPL was. Many factors are changing at once. May be best to let the water clear before we start fishing for cause and effect.
 05/21/2007 10:57:04 AM · #20
Originally posted by skewsme:
May be best to let the water clear before we start fishing for cause and effect.
Awesome metaphor, btw. :-)
 05/21/2007 10:57:12 AM · #21
Disregarding DPL entirely, I would not be suprised if the overall average vote cast is lower for the Selective Desaturation challenge than for others. It is a technique that is open to being done both badly and inappropriately; for many (myslef included) this will have been the first occasion that the submitter has tried the technique, and it is likely that the resulting photograph will be weaker than when submitting to a challenge that falls within the photographer's comfort zone. I currently have a weak entry reflected by a poor score - not just by my own, but by DPC standards. BUT, I have learned something in the process - even if that is that I will never use selective desaturation again!!!
 05/21/2007 11:01:18 AM · #22
SLOW DOWN....

Not even a half of a day has passed since voting started on the FIRST challenge in DPL's history.
 05/21/2007 11:03:13 AM · #23
Originally posted by yakatme:
SLOW DOWN....

Not even a half of a day has passed since voting started on the FIRST challenge in DPL's history.


C'mon now! We have got to be on our toes and have the world figured out within 24 hours!!! ;)
 05/21/2007 11:15:58 AM · #24
Originally posted by SaraR:
Disregarding DPL entirely, I would not be suprised if the overall average vote cast is lower for the Selective Desaturation challenge than for others. It is a technique that is open to being done both badly and inappropriately; for many (myslef included) this will have been the first occasion that the submitter has tried the technique, and it is likely that the resulting photograph will be weaker than when submitting to a challenge that falls within the photographer's comfort zone. I currently have a weak entry reflected by a poor score - not just by my own, but by DPC standards. BUT, I have learned something in the process - even if that is that I will never use selective desaturation again!!!

I TOTALLY agree. For me it's a very hard challenge to vote on for this reason.
 05/21/2007 11:30:13 AM · #25
I was predicting a low scoring challenge.

A) The last Selective Desat, although it had a 7.25 win, had a 6.77 for Yellow. That's lowish. It's well known that DPC isn't a huge Selective Desat fan.

B) I do think people are probably voting "conservatively". That doesn't mean they are dishing out 2s and 3s. In watching my votes I have yet to see a vote less than 4, but I will also note the vast majority of votes are in the tight 5-7 range. People probably are a little tighter with their 8-10 votes. (or maybe my picture just doesn't deserve them. :))

I think this will wear off and in a few weeks people will forget to vote in such a manner.
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