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05/18/2007 02:07:06 PM · #51 |
Originally posted by fotomann_forever:
Sometimes the shots are just soo ho-hum I don't want to say anything for fear of being mean :-D |
I would rather be told that the shot is boring or the subject doesn't work, then continue to think I am taking great shots. If people aren't told their comps are just plain uninteresting, how will they ever be able to look at their photos more constructively. I receive very few comments on my portfolio images, unless I am participating in a 30 day. That leads me to believe that the images are just blah, since nobody can find anything to say. HOwever, that may not be the case in all of them. I will always be negative about my attempts because I assume no comments means really bad photo. So I change the style and subject, still get no comments and I wonder if everything I take is a bad subject and uninteresting.
Another thing I have noticed is I can take a shot a lot like some of the highly commented images in peoples portfolios. My shot may even be better focused or composed, yet I receive nada for comments. So that has a lot to do with who you are. The "popular" phototographers can take a shot of a pile of s--- and get 100 comments of that is really a great photo. I have looked through the gallery a lot and can't believe the wonderful images that have received no comments, so I go to town and make comments. I wish more people would do that.
So, anybody got any great pile of s--- images to share.
Message edited by author 2007-05-18 14:12:11. |
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05/18/2007 02:07:11 PM · #52 |
Somebody already said this, but User E didn't bother to read any of the reponses. Neither did user F or G. The longer the thread gets, the more redundant it gets.
I think in general though, User B DOES tend to get credit, it's just that the same answer is reposted due to time constraints or lack of interest in reading all of the answers that have already been posted. I read about half and then skipped ahead to replying. My apologies to Users 10 through 23 if I have repeated their insights. No slighting was intended :) |
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05/18/2007 02:07:55 PM · #53 |
Originally posted by fotomann_forever:
Sometimes the shots are just soo ho-hum I don't want to say anything for fear of being mean :-D |
Agreed...they ask what is wrong and I want to say everything. It's just not interesting or what have you...but I'm not going to say that, it's rude...but I know we have all thought it once or twice. |
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05/18/2007 02:08:57 PM · #54 |
Originally posted by CEJ:
Originally posted by stdavidson:
Try this... keep a log of questions asked and by whom and the answers they do (or don't) get. I'm confident that if you quantitatively record this data that you will find no relationship between who asks a given question and the quality of answers they get. |
It was this exact activity that prompted me to start this thread after a few initial observations a few months back that just seemed odd to me when I made them. I even ran an experiment sort of and it only proved that there is some sort of dynamic at work in the ether. Perhaps my post does not portray what I was thinking exactly, but from the responses it seems I am not the only one who senses/d or observes/d 'something.' |
Originally posted by MattO:
...
If someone who posts a "eh, whatever" snapshot to you, it may be a wow, look what I just learned I can do. I've seen it numerous times even with established people of this community who are members of the "in crowd"
Example over 100 views on these photos not a single comment |
I will give MattO credit for finding an example of ONE to prove a point. Examples of ONE can be used to support ANY premise.
Show me REAL evidence and I will become a champion for the underappreciated and ignored.
I will go one step further. If either of you find an ignored forum message of which neither of you are qualified to respond and are unable to find someone who can, then direct it to me through a PM and I will either address it myself if I have the expertise or find a qualified person to respond.
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05/18/2007 02:10:01 PM · #55 |
Originally posted by MattO:
Besides the fact that I'm not a Portrait type of photographer and I dont think I could honestly give an opinion on something that I myself suck at. :-)
MattO |
Matt, PLEASE comment on things you suck at. Rather, comment on things regardless of your own skill. You look at pictures just like everyone else, and your opinion is as valid as anyone else's. Meaning it's your opinion, and it's useful information to the photographer.
Whether the person chooses to listen or act is another thing, but don't let your lack of ability to TAKE a shot make you think you shoudn't have an OPINION about that type of shot.
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05/18/2007 02:17:52 PM · #56 |
Originally posted by JunieMoon:
I would rather be told that the shot is boring or the subject doesn't work, then continue to think I am taking great shots. If people aren't told their comps are just plain uninteresting, how will they ever be able to look at their photos more constructively. I receive very few comments on my portfolio images, unless I am participating in a 30 day. That leads me to believe that the images are just blah, since nobody can find anything to say. HOwever, that may not be the case in all of them. I will always be negative about my attempts because I assume no comments means really bad photo. So I change the style and subject, still get no comments and I wonder if everything I take is a bad subject and uninteresting.
Another thing I have noticed is I can take a shot a lot like some of the highly commented images in peoples portfolios. My shot may even be better focused or composed, yet I receive nada for comments. So that has a lot to do with who you are. The "popular" phototographers can take a shot of a pile of s--- and get 100 comments of that is really a great photo. I have looked through the gallery a lot and can't believe the wonderful images that have received no comments, so I go to town and make comments. I wish more people would do that.
So, anybody got any great pile of s--- images to share. |
Very well stated ... I also feel the same way ... people say the way to get comments is to give them ... I've found that doesn't work unless I'm participating in a 30-Day side challenge ... I've made over 2700 comments and have recieved just over 500 ... I dig though the galleries for the hidden gems all the time ... but, at the end of the day, I learn a lot from the comments and observations that I make ... so my lack of comments received doesn't really bother me ... |
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05/18/2007 02:18:29 PM · #57 |
Originally posted by JunieMoon:
1) I receive very few comments on my portfolio images, unless I am participating in a 30 day.
2) Another thing I have noticed is I can take a shot a lot like some of the highly commented images in peoples portfolios. My shot may even be better focused or composed, yet I receive nada for comments. So that has a lot to do with who you are. |
Guess what? There's a connection between those two. I knew very few people before I did the 30-day self-portrait challenge last September. WHAM! Got to know many folks, and now I'll sometimes get comments on portfolio shots even before I ask for them.
Then I did the Where You Live project in Feb. Wham! More friends (and of course several names are now coming to mind who I didn't list up above).
The reason "popular" photogs get comments on their portfolio shots is, yes, that they're well-known, so people go check out their stuff to see what they've been up to.
But that's not sinister, it's normal. Until you're known, no one will know to check up on your latest.
Saying that it's "who you are" makes it sound like there's something wrong. Think of it this way: whose lives do you keep up with? Your friends? Or random people you pass in the street? Did you keep up with your friends' lives before you met them and became friends? Was it wrong of you not to ask random people what was up in their lives?
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05/18/2007 02:19:42 PM · #58 |
Originally posted by stdavidson:
I will go one step further. If either of you find an ignored forum message of which neither of you are qualified to respond and are unable to find someone who can, then direct it to me through a PM and I will either address it myself if I have the expertise or find a qualified person to respond. |
It's not so difficult Steve. For example, go to the Individual Photograph Discussion forum section and you'll find a few in the last week or so. Probably could do the same in other forum sections as well. Just look down the columns for number of replies and seek out those with 0 replies. |
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05/18/2007 02:20:24 PM · #59 |
Originally posted by stdavidson:
[Show me REAL evidence and I will become a champion for the underappreciated and ignored.
I will go one step further. If either of you find an ignored forum message of which neither of you are qualified to respond and are unable to find someone who can, then direct it to me through a PM and I will either address it myself if I have the expertise or find a qualified person to respond. |
Trust me on this, I love DPC and what it does, but there is a dynamic working here. Click on the individual Photo discussion tab. Go through several of the discussions of people asking for help. There will be one maybe 2 responses, Maybe one or two comments on many of the threads. These people are asking for us to help them. Here is another quick example of what I'm talking about.
Many views 1 comment no replies
I could go through many pages and bring several up to show my point. There are also many with just a couple. But someone "popular" on the sie puts up a shot there are 25 replies and 20 comments even if they arent asking for help.
MattO
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05/18/2007 02:20:56 PM · #60 |
Ya'll are talking about those 30-day side challenges. Well, I'm sure everyone has heard the phrase you get out what you put in. And in that, the 30-day side challenges get you in contact with others. You can't be invisible and all of a sudden expect to be heard. It doesn't work that way.
Those that are more visible are more visible because they put themselves out to be seen.
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05/18/2007 02:21:51 PM · #61 |
I start from the basic assumption that whatever I say is so astonishingly correct that people who want to contribute to the thread have to ignore my comment (because it demonstrates how wrong they are) or repeat part of it (because I have already answered the issue).
I now have no more worries about being ignored.
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05/18/2007 02:22:43 PM · #62 |
But what if you want to be invisible but also be heard. Sneak up to people in a dark room and whisper to them...they turn around and aren't there. Sounds cool to me.
Message edited by author 2007-05-18 14:24:14. |
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05/18/2007 02:23:44 PM · #63 |
Originally posted by DefyTime:
But what if you want to be invisible but also be heard. Sneak up to people in a dark room and whisper to them...they turn around and aren't there. Sounds cool to me. |
:-D
Message edited by author 2007-05-18 14:26:53.
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05/18/2007 02:25:28 PM · #64 |
Damn it Leroy...I just edited my text because I spelled invisible wrong...now I look like a buffoon!! ;)
Edit - Forgot the smilie face...don't want people to think I'm a baffoon and an ass.
Message edited by author 2007-05-18 14:27:36. |
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05/18/2007 02:26:20 PM · #65 |
Originally posted by Matthew:
I start from the basic assumption that whatever I say is so astonishingly correct that people who want to contribute to the thread have to ignore my comment (because it demonstrates how wrong they are) or repeat part of it (because I have already answered the issue).
I now have no more worries about being ignored. |
Or maybe you're missing a substantial amount of the community at DPC that have the 'Rant' forum section turned off? 5 of your last 10 forum posts are 'Rant's. :P |
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05/18/2007 02:26:58 PM · #66 |
This kind of reminds me of the debate over the Pentax K10D at DPReview in the Pentax forums. (sort of).
People see a problem.. post about said problem.. other people say "oh yes, I see it, that's definitely a problem!"
Other people say, "There's no way that's a problem, you're just seeing things."
Other people say, "I suppose you have a problem, but it's never been a problem for me."
It's all about selective recognition.
Is social segregation happening on DPC? You bet. Happens everywhere. People of like minds and personalities and behaviors tend to draw to each other and group together. This is human nature. It happens here and it happens in every single large social grouping known to man.
Are some groups more tolerant of outsiders and "newbies" than others? Yes.
Are some groups becoming, or already are, a problem? Hard to say. Depends on where you fit in the large scheme of things and whether or not you actually *care* about "belonging".
Some groups try their hardest to remain exclusive, some groups don't actually realize that they're exclusive, some groups welcome anyone with open arms, and some groups are so open-armed that they scare people with a sense of false joy ;)
Welcome to mini-society.
This all ties into the original premise because it shows that there is no easy answer to any of the questions poised.
Will some people get answers quicker or more frequently than others? Sure.. but there are so many factors that go into each individual thread that it'd be almost impossible to point out exactly why each one goes the way it does. One won't get a lot of responses because it was posted at 2am eastern time -- when nobody is on the site just then -- by a person that isn't well-known by the 2 or 3 people that are on -- showing a photo that none of the 2 or 3 people really care for anyway...
Another will be posted at 2am eastern time when a surprising number of people have insomnia -- and may not like the poster -- but are bored and easily amused...
Another will be posted at 2pm eastern time -- when everybody seems to be out for the afternoon -- even though this is a well known and respected user -- but it's a horrible snapshot...
Then you simply have a person that nobody knows, posting a relatively uninteresting photo, at a time of day when everyone is on, and the thread gets a ton of views, but nobody really has the inclination to care. Flip side, you get someone everyone knows, posting a very DPC *WOW*! photo at a time when everyone is online, and the hero-worship gene kicks into action and suddenly they're the new poster boy/girl for all that is godly.
You see what I'm getting at? It all runs together. It all isn't fair. It's all life.
The only thing we can hope for is to recognize, on a personal level, if we're being too exclusionary or "cliquey" as you will, and work to change that for ourselves.
It doesn't hurt to be outspoken either, if you can... if you truly care about being a part of everything.
Message edited by author 2007-05-18 14:33:50. |
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05/18/2007 02:28:58 PM · #67 |
Originally posted by glad2badad:
Originally posted by Matthew:
I start from the basic assumption that whatever I say is so astonishingly correct that people who want to contribute to the thread have to ignore my comment (because it demonstrates how wrong they are) or repeat part of it (because I have already answered the issue).
I now have no more worries about being ignored. |
Or maybe you're missing a substantial amount of the community at DPC that have the 'Rant' forum section turned off? 5 of your last 10 forum posts are 'Rant's. :P |
I come out of rant occasionally! I do think it a shame that mildly contentious issues have to be hidden away for fear of making people think...
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05/18/2007 02:31:36 PM · #68 |
Originally posted by Artyste:
This kind of reminds me of the debate over ... |
Bravo, Glen. Well, articulated.
Message edited by author 2007-05-18 14:31:55.
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05/18/2007 03:11:02 PM · #69 |
Originally posted by MattO:
Originally posted by stdavidson:
[Show me REAL evidence and I will become a champion for the underappreciated and ignored.
I will go one step further. If either of you find an ignored forum message of which neither of you are qualified to respond and are unable to find someone who can, then direct it to me through a PM and I will either address it myself if I have the expertise or find a qualified person to respond. |
Trust me on this, I love DPC and what it does, but there is a dynamic working here. Click on the individual Photo discussion tab. Go through several of the discussions of people asking for help. There will be one maybe 2 responses, Maybe one or two comments on many of the threads. These people are asking for us to help them. Here is another quick example of what I'm talking about.
Many views 1 comment no replies
I could go through many pages and bring several up to show my point. There are also many with just a couple. But someone "popular" on the sie puts up a shot there are 25 replies and 20 comments even if they arent asking for help.
MattO |
If you are suggesting that I should go off and help solve a problem I don't even believe exists just because you THINK it does then you are barking up the wrong tree.
If you have tried unsuccessfully to solve the problem and still need help and seek my assitance then I am your man.
But if you feel that I or other people like me should go off and solve it without any effort on your part just because you point it out then that ain't gonna happen.
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05/18/2007 03:13:38 PM · #70 |
Originally posted by Artyste:
You see what I'm getting at? It all runs together. It all isn't fair. It's all life. |
That was one of the most articulate, sensible things I've ever read on the Internet. Thanks!
Note that I'm pointedly ignoring the fact that fotomann already said that, because he's person A, and I wanna be person B. All of you after this, I hereby command that you quote my praise, not his. ;)
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05/18/2007 03:16:26 PM · #71 |
Originally posted by stdavidson:
If you are suggesting that I should go off and help solve a problem I don't even believe exists just because you THINK it does then you are barking up the wrong tree.
If you have tried unsuccessfully to solve the problem and still need help and seek my assitance then I am your man.
But if you feel that I or other people like me should go off and solve it without any effort on your part just because you point it out then that ain't gonna happen. |
I'm not suggesting anyone do anything. I'm simply pointing out that I do feel that the OP has a point and can go into the forums and prove it at least to my satisfaction. If you feel there isnt then OK thats fine. But you did ask that you wanted some proof that I felt it did exist. I simply was trying to show you my POV on this. I'm not going to try and solve the problems of the world(DPC) nor am I asking you to. Heck I cant solve the problems that I encounter in the real world let alone the cyberworld.
MattO
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05/18/2007 03:24:15 PM · #72 |
Originally posted by MattO:
Originally posted by stdavidson:
If you are suggesting that I should go off and help solve a problem I don't even believe exists just because you THINK it does then you are barking up the wrong tree.
If you have tried unsuccessfully to solve the problem and still need help and seek my assitance then I am your man.
But if you feel that I or other people like me should go off and solve it without any effort on your part just because you point it out then that ain't gonna happen. |
I'm not suggesting anyone do anything. I'm simply pointing out that I do feel that the OP has a point and can go into the forums and prove it at least to my satisfaction. If you feel there isnt then OK thats fine. But you did ask that you wanted some proof that I felt it did exist. I simply was trying to show you my POV on this. I'm not going to try and solve the problems of the world(DPC) nor am I asking you to. Heck I cant solve the problems that I encounter in the real world let alone the cyberworld. |
When you feel the problem significant enough to do something about it then I will help. Until then I will stand by my belief that it is NOT real.
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05/18/2007 03:25:09 PM · #73 |
And there is no spoon either ;-)
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05/18/2007 03:28:20 PM · #74 |
Originally posted by stdavidson:
Originally posted by MattO:
Originally posted by stdavidson:
If you are suggesting that I should go off and help solve a problem I don't even believe exists just because you THINK it does then you are barking up the wrong tree.
If you have tried unsuccessfully to solve the problem and still need help and seek my assitance then I am your man.
But if you feel that I or other people like me should go off and solve it without any effort on your part just because you point it out then that ain't gonna happen. |
I'm not suggesting anyone do anything. I'm simply pointing out that I do feel that the OP has a point and can go into the forums and prove it at least to my satisfaction. If you feel there isnt then OK thats fine. But you did ask that you wanted some proof that I felt it did exist. I simply was trying to show you my POV on this. I'm not going to try and solve the problems of the world(DPC) nor am I asking you to. Heck I cant solve the problems that I encounter in the real world let alone the cyberworld. |
When you feel the problem significant enough to do something about it then I will help. Until then I will stand by my belief that it is NOT real. |
It's *real*.. it's just not a problem for you. Big difference. Like I'd stated earlier, it's all a matter of selective recognition :) |
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05/18/2007 03:41:53 PM · #75 |
Originally posted by Artyste:
Originally posted by stdavidson:
Originally posted by MattO:
Originally posted by stdavidson:
If you are suggesting that I should go off and help solve a problem I don't even believe exists just because you THINK it does then you are barking up the wrong tree.
If you have tried unsuccessfully to solve the problem and still need help and seek my assitance then I am your man.
But if you feel that I or other people like me should go off and solve it without any effort on your part just because you point it out then that ain't gonna happen. |
I'm not suggesting anyone do anything. I'm simply pointing out that I do feel that the OP has a point and can go into the forums and prove it at least to my satisfaction. If you feel there isnt then OK thats fine. But you did ask that you wanted some proof that I felt it did exist. I simply was trying to show you my POV on this. I'm not going to try and solve the problems of the world(DPC) nor am I asking you to. Heck I cant solve the problems that I encounter in the real world let alone the cyberworld. |
When you feel the problem significant enough to do something about it then I will help. Until then I will stand by my belief that it is NOT real. |
It's *real*.. it's just not a problem for you. Big difference. Like I'd stated earlier, it's all a matter of selective recognition :) |
Let me try this again. I want to help.
But are YOU doing ANYTHING other than complaining about the problem?
If so, I will help you. If not then I will not.
I don't believe this is real and YOU have provided ZERO evidence for your opinion. How can you possibly expect me to support you?
Note: Corrected spelling
Message edited by author 2007-05-18 15:43:27.
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