Good Eyes - DPChallenge Forums

Canon EF-S 18-55mm f/3.5-5.6 USM

Canon EF 50mm f/1.4 USM

07/23/2003 09:30:55 AM · #2

I guess the fact that you scored so low really nails home the fact that people really do hold the challenge topic to be of the utmost importance when voting. I guess it never really occured to me. Maybe I should start shooting more on topic.

I have to admit that, even though I only glanced over the 'Round' pictures, I didn't see the roundness in your image. I don't think that would have stopped me from voting it high though. It's a nice shot.

e301

07/23/2003 09:39:30 AM · #3

Must be up there with your symmetry shot for being misunderstood JJ. Glad to see your imagination's still out-running most of us.

I didn't vote on Round - not sure i'd have got it either :-)

Ed

BLEE

Canon PowerShot A70

07/23/2003 09:51:42 AM · #4

i knew exactly what you meant but i couldnt see it in the photo.
shouldve faked a crop circle while you were there.

Alpine99

Canon EOS-550D Rebel T2i

07/23/2003 09:56:10 AM · #5

I like both this shot and the symmetry shot.. I like the fact you're tying to push the bounds of the challenge.. maybe a bit too far, because I have to admit I never got it!

frisca

Nikon D70

Nikon AF Nikkor 50mm f/1.8D

07/23/2003 11:47:28 AM · #6

I love it when JJ pushes the topics...its inspiring. I didn't get to vote on his picture, but I think I would not have gotten it either, so I'm glad he reminded me to look more carefully, though I rarely mark down much for not obviously meeting the topic.

autool

Canon EOS-20D

Canon EF 28-105mm f/3.5-4.5 II USM

07/23/2003 12:01:46 PM · #7

Jean,
Thanks for the un-needed recognition, it should have scored higher. I don't think a lot of the speed voters would have seen it if they were standing in the middle of the circle,and it had been smaller.
Great picture!
Dick

timmi

Canon EOS-5D Mark II

Canon EF 24-105mm f/4.0L IS

07/23/2003 01:12:35 PM · #8

I thought it was a great shot. There is definitely a roundness to it. I also thought it was a good landscape shot. I wish more people here opend up their mind and were more 'objective' to wider interpretation of the topics.

Similarly, my "contrasts" shot is receiving low scores, because (as some commented) doesn't fit the description of the challenge. :-))) Oh, well, I am still having fun, so there!

Message edited by Konador - Removing entry description from post.

e301

07/23/2003 01:24:41 PM · #9

timmi - you shouldn't really refer to an image so directly whilst voting is going on still.

And I still don't think your photo met the challenge: at least in no more of a way than every single photo ever taken could be said to - apart maybe from the Burt Reynolds shot.

:-)

ed

Canon 12x IS USM (S3 IS built-in Lens) -- 36-432mm (35mm EQ)

07/23/2003 02:37:41 PM · #10

Sorry, but I'm one of those that voted you a little lower on this shot. I'll admit I didn't see it, though I assumed from your title that there must be some round aspect to it somewhere. But the most prominent features in the frame were rectangular. Even if the subject (the farm land) was layed out in a round pattern as shown in the map, "roundness" wasn't portrayed well in your shot. The challenge said "show us roundness" - OK, you showed us something that, from another perspective, way in the distance, has a hint of roundness to it, but IMO you didn't show us that in your shot. It was a challenging idea, but the execution failed (and was probably impossible outside of going up in an airplane or hot-air balloon).

Now, I hope I've been reasonable above, because now I'm going to let out a hint at how offended I am at this compaint. This isn't a mystery contest: guess what my photo is, or how it fits the challenge. To suggest that the voters failed, and only a select few deserve congratulations for having seen a vague hint of roundness that exists in about 1/2% of your picture is plain assinine. The voters didn't fail - you failed by not meeting the challenge. You didn't show me roundness. Get over it, learn from it (or, hey, don't, no skin off my back) and move on.

I try to be very open and lateral in interpreting how a picture might meet the challenge. I didn't expect all spheres, perfect circles, or even complete circles. But I did expect to look at something that, at first glance, showed some hint of roundness. Your shot showed brush in over 1/3 of the shot, and straight lines through another 1/3. Hey, it was a nice shot. Great view, nice landscape, good composition. But it didn't show roundness.

You should have taken a nicer picture of that map and submitted it. Would have done better...

Message edited by author 2003-07-23 14:38:22.

GeneralE

Canon PowerShot S3 IS

07/23/2003 02:50:18 PM · #11

The challenge was "show us roundness." It didn't say stick a donut on my nose. To say a piece of art must make it easy for the viewer to see it/get it is [delete clever but pejorative phrase], but to expect a "difficult" piece to score lower is logical.

But what's wrong with pointing out that a few people saw something in an image that many others apparently overlooked? This site is supposed to be about learning.

robsmith

Canon EOS-300D Rebel

Sigma 12-24mm f/4.5-5.6 EX Aspherical DG for Canon

07/23/2003 03:05:55 PM · #12

Originally posted by ScottK:

Snip ...

Now, I hope I've been reasonable above, because now I'm going to let out a hint at how offended I am at this compaint. This isn't a mystery contest: guess what my photo is, or how it fits the challenge. To suggest that the voters failed, and only a select few deserve congratulations for having seen a vague hint of roundness that exists in about 1/2% of your picture is plain assinine. The voters didn't fail - you failed by not meeting the challenge. You didn't show me roundness. Get over it, learn from it (or, hey, don't, no skin off my back) and move on.

I don't think Jean-Jacques was complaining about votes, or lack of. If you look at his profile he has more than enough skill to be highly placed with 'safe' entries.

I'm happy that people stick their necks out and submit pictures like this. I have learnt a great deal more about composition from these images than one of a ball in the middle of the frame.

From where I sit the horizon appears straight, does this mean the earth is flat?

MikeO

Fujifilm x100

07/23/2003 03:20:01 PM · #13

It can be a bit frustrating when you enter a challenge and most of the people leave comments like ''the reflection spoils it'' or ''nice shot but would be better without the reflection''. This was my round entry

//www.dpchallenge.com/image.php?IMAGE_ID=28554
The reflection was a key part - the roundess of the camera lens and the roundness of my head - but i dont think many noticed

:-(

joannadiva

Canon EOS-300D Rebel

07/23/2003 03:24:55 PM · #14

Originally posted by chinstrap:

got the same thing with mine

//www.dpchallenge.com/image.php?IMAGE_ID=27223

I thought the reflections were the point....most of the coments were to point out they were there

07/23/2003 07:19:21 PM · #15

I appologize for overreacting, at least in tone. You're right, he wasn't necesarily complaining about the votes, I suppose. I was reacting to the "congratulations" part, which I interpreted (i.e. I'm not saying he intended it, though if he didn't, why post it publicly???) as being a back-handed slap at anyone who didn't "get it", and got a little carried away. Sorry about that.

But I do still stand by the substance of what I said. I don't think you can really hide behind the standard of "art" and say that viewers didn't get it, but that's ok, they're the problem, because: it's art. I didn't say that a piece of art has to make it easy to see or get what's being conveyed - but ultimately it has to succeed at some level. And, even now that I know what this picture was trying to convey, I still say it didn't. Like I said: great idea, failed execution. (Hey, I've submitted a few of those myself!) Submitting a picture of a great idea that didn't work isn't "sticking your neck out", in the grand romantic meaning of the phrase. Its just trying and failing.

07/23/2003 07:31:14 PM · #16

Originally posted by joannadiva:

Originally posted by chinstrap:
It can be a bit frustrating when you enter a challenge and most of the people leave comments like ''the reflection spoils it'' or ''nice shot but would be better without the reflection''. This was my round entry

//www.dpchallenge.com/image.php?IMAGE_ID=28554
The reflection was a key part - the roundess of the camera lens and the roundness of my head - but i dont think many noticed

:-(

got the same thing with mine

//www.dpchallenge.com/image.php?IMAGE_ID=27223

I thought the reflections were the point....most of the coments were to point out they were there

FWIW (which may be nothing), I think the problem with both these shots may be that whenever the photographer gets themselves in the picture, especially in a reflective surface, it just feels like a mistake. It has to be really obvious that it's intentional, which can be hard to convey without being overly blunt.

Now on your shot, Joanna, the alternate title you put in your comment would have totally changed the message of this shot - it would have brought you in as the real subject of the shot, and it would tell a whole story. You might have raised your score a whole point. As it was titled, the title doesn't tell me much about what's happening, I have no context for why you're included, and you being in the shot seems like bad composition. In fact, now I keep going back and looking at it - it would have been perfect! The look on your friend's face is classic - I've seen that look myself! (I hope this is making you feel good, and not bad!) This is a perfect example of the difference a title can make.

pitsaman

Canon EOS-30D

Canon EF 50mm f/1.8 II

07/23/2003 08:09:22 PM · #17

Some people just love to discard photo (DOESN'T MEET THE CHALLENGE) even without looking at carefully,give it 1-2 and keep going like voting is some kind of race who is going to finish first!

Jaxson

Canon EOS-400D Rebel XTi

07/23/2003 08:40:53 PM · #18

Originally posted by pitsaman:

Some people just love to discard photo (DOESN'T MEET THE CHALLENGE) even without looking at carefully,give it 1-2 and keep going like voting is some kind of race who is going to finish first!

Maybe a way to eliminate this type of voting would be to make it compulsory to leave a comment if you're going to mark something a 1 or 2. This would help separate the jealous voters from the genuine voters. It's hard to think that a genuine voter would have marked either a 1 or 2 for the winner of the round challenge for example. In which case they more than likely would have left an interesting comment as to why.

Just my 2.5 cents.

Message edited by author 2003-07-23 20:43:48.

07/24/2003 12:10:59 AM · #19

Originally posted by pitsaman:

Some people just love to discard photo (DOESN'T MEET THE CHALLENGE) even without looking at carefully,give it 1-2 and keep going like voting is some kind of race who is going to finish first!

That's kind of presumptuous... FWIW, I gave this shot a 4, which is pretty high for me on a shot where I don't see a clear connection with the challenge. I seem to recall a list of "voting guidelines" that I think was attributed to John Setzler - not rules, just his personal scale. If I remember right, that scale didn't give a picture that didn't meet the challenge much above a 3. So I don't feel like I'm exactly alone in my opinion. (I can't find that list, so if I've miss stated anything related to it, let me know - and please post a link. I'd like to see it again. I also don't mean to imply I'm speaking for, know the mind of, or am in any way aligned with John.)

And, during the voting, I probably spent about a minute looking at this picture. I assumed there must be something round in the design of those fields, but I didn't see it. Today, I've probably gone back and looked at it half a dozen times. I see now where the "roundness" is supposed to be, but it still doesn't convey roundness to me. How long am I supposed to be expected to spend looking at a picture, trying to see something that may or may not be there? I think I was pretty fair, what more should I be required to give??? And to 300 pictures, no less!

(And, is this just because you're mad at me because I didn't think your sample picture fit the Fills the Frame challenge? ;-) I hope I'm not just permanantly on your bad side, I usually like your pictures and appreciate your opinions.)