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05/13/2007 12:14:00 AM · #1 |
Ok, this is kinda my first time approaching this issue from this point of view. I have just started work on a large midterm project which needs to be presented in Chinese talking about my home country. Seeing as I don't actually live in my home country nor have I even had a camera for a significant amount of time while I was in my home country, I have no pictures of my own to use.
So I naturally hit the net looking for some piccies.
Then I started thinking from another point of view... (mostly because I was so appalled by how much people were charging for badly composed, low contrast, out of focus *crAP* pictures with their watermark plastered overtop... 200 bucks for a low contrast, badly composed, questionably focused pic of two buffalo walking away from the camera.. yikes)
Am I being naughty? HRM... How would I feel if someone was using my pics for their school presentation... I'd feel pretty good. I believe I have seen in the past mention that educational use (for instruction or for use by students) is generally appropriate without permission, but I thought I'd throw this out there and get some comments from "y'all".
The presentation will be burned to a CD through the PowerPoint "burn a CD for use on a computer even if that computer doesn't have PowerPoint software installed" function, but will be used only once. The only gain I will get is a grade.
The presentation length will be 8-10 minutes long.
Additional food for thought is that I am in Taiwan, so this is probably more of an ethical issue than a legal issue...
Feelings? Thoughts?
(for those of you who are wondering, I've collected about 20 pics and have stopped pending an answer - and I have not yet gone to DPChallenge's archives) |
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05/13/2007 12:19:03 AM · #2 |
| not sure I have anything you would want but you can use anything of mine here or on my website for your school presentation. |
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05/13/2007 12:19:08 AM · #3 |
| And the ethics and screaming start in........ |
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05/13/2007 12:20:41 AM · #4 |
Originally posted by RainMotorsports:
And the ethics and screaming start in........ |
I see no ethics problem. I mean it would be pretty petty to charge a student for a school project. |
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05/13/2007 12:28:31 AM · #5 |
Originally posted by Elvis_L:
Originally posted by RainMotorsports:
And the ethics and screaming start in........ |
I see no ethics problem. I mean it would be pretty petty to charge a student for a school project. |
However, it is pretty unethical for anyone to just take without asking as well. Bottom line, is, always ask to use because it doesn't matter if you are a student or a pope, theft is theft and everyone has the right to charge for their service.
if its not yours ALWAYS ASK!
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05/13/2007 12:29:40 AM · #6 |
Originally posted by Elvis_L:
Originally posted by RainMotorsports:
And the ethics and screaming start in........ |
I see no ethics problem. I mean it would be pretty petty to charge a student for a school project. |
That and fair use allows for educational purposes. (At least in the US, not sure how it's written in international law.)
Short answer: You're not selling it? You're not putting it up on your website and building your reputation on it? You are presenting it to a limited audience for the purpose of education? Pfffft! No infringement.
(Do you people not read the copyright information in front of every single video you rent?!) |
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05/13/2007 12:31:35 AM · #7 |
Originally posted by littlegett:
Originally posted by Elvis_L:
Originally posted by RainMotorsports:
And the ethics and screaming start in........ |
I see no ethics problem. I mean it would be pretty petty to charge a student for a school project. |
However, it is pretty unethical for anyone to just take without asking as well. Bottom line, is, always ask to use because it doesn't matter if you are a student or a pope, theft is theft and everyone has the right to charge for their service.
if its not yours ALWAYS ASK! |
I don't think they have to legally, just like you don't legally have to ask to take someones photo just if you want to make money from it. |
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05/13/2007 12:35:40 AM · #8 |
When I was in college, many,many,many moons ago. Not only did I learn how to drink beer, and use a bong, but, I actually learned some things from my classes, and my instructors.
Communication Law, with a Psychology minor is what I was after just so you know.
Any how, yeah...at least back in the '80s, before dvd's, before mp3, before streaming video, before digital imagery, a student could acquire images, film clips, and what ever for free. As long as the student used the info for said studies, and not for any profit.
All a student had to do, at least back then, was acknowledge the original author, artist, owner of what ever the student borrowed.
Hope this helps.
Message edited by author 2007-05-13 00:36:25.
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05/13/2007 12:44:26 AM · #9 |
Originally posted by American_Horse:
Communication Law, with a Psychology minor is what I was after just so you know.
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And now you help make films and shows in which many of the actors need lawyers and shrinks:) |
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05/13/2007 12:47:19 AM · #10 |
Add another vote to the same side. You're not making money, and you're not even trying to pass off the photos as your own.
If you know the photographer's name, give him/her credit and go right ahead using the photos.
I have no idea if that answer would always be legally correct, but in my opinion it is at least morally right. |
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05/13/2007 12:55:36 AM · #11 |
| If you make money with this presentation, if you sell it as part of a consulting fee or charge admission, then the people who make the images you use are entitled to a fair share of your profits. I know a guy who does seminars and he pays for every shot in his powerpoint show, but people pay him to see the show, so he owes the photgraphers the $500 or so bucks he pays them. |
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05/13/2007 01:00:23 AM · #12 |
Originally posted by BrennanOB:
If you make money with this presentation, if you sell it as part of a consulting fee or charge admission, then the people who make the images you use are entitled to a fair share of your profits. I know a guy who does seminars and he pays for every shot in his powerpoint show, but people pay him to see the show, so he owes the photgraphers the $500 or so bucks he pays them. |
It is his midterm exam. not sure about other schools but where I went to college we didn't charge others to see our exams:) |
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05/13/2007 01:02:00 AM · #13 |
I think it is still nice to ask. I'd give any picture I have for education purposes as long as I'm asked nicely and I know what will happen to my picture.
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05/13/2007 03:39:37 AM · #14 |
Hi, i was in the same dilemma as you, not sure whether i could use a couple of photos or not.
I checked with all the people in charge at my uni and they said that as its for educational purposes, and will not make a profit and will only be used once, that its ok.
But they did say try to contact the owner, just to let them know and to be polite and if they do reply with a no, honour their opinion.
Also, you should reference anyone else photo you use, i usually put a thumbnail version of it in my bibliography/appendixes, and then reference where i got it from, when, and who it was taken by, and any other information about it.
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05/13/2007 04:42:03 AM · #15 |
Does one not need to put a bibliography of all refence material used at the end of a paper? I know we always had to when I was a student some 20 yrs ago. At that time (I was a biology major) we were referecing articles from Scientific American and other types of publications.
Using photos in your paper would seem to me, at least, to be fair, providing you quote the source and credit the photographer at the end of the paper, in the same way you would refence any other material used.
Just my 2 pence. |
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05/13/2007 04:42:18 AM · #16 |
thanks. Will carry on then.
No money will be made. The presentation will be made at a small aboriginal village in the mountains as part of a culture exchange event. I will probably have well over 200 small to medium sized photos (medium being 1024x768, small being smaller) in the presentation, maybe more. I don't think I will have the time or means to contact everyone for permission.
Incidentally, now that I am thinking of it, I'll probably be using a couple of songs from some of my CD's as well... hope that doesn't cause a problem.
I will include a credits section at the end, but I have a feeling that those managing the equipment will kill the presentation as I will be one of the very few there who is from a western country and Chinese, Japanese, Korean do not generally use the English alphabet, so a list of names will be seen as rather unimportant to them.
It is indeed nice to ask, but in this case, it might not be practical. I've not even finished the first of 6 chapters and time spent is already becoming an issue with balancing with other things I need to do. |
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05/27/2007 07:39:24 AM · #17 |
Well, many hours of work later, I presented the .ppt last night at the Aboriginal village. The Village is called Kalibuon. The population is around 800 in a town just across from Jade Mountain which is considered a Holy mountain to the BuNung people.
It was pretty neat to see how the kids were in that town. I thoroughly enjoyed how the kids spoke BuNung language with each other quite naturally where many other aboriginal groups see the widespread use of Chinese or Taiwanese as the language of choice to the point where kids grow up in a household with their grandparents, but cannot communicate with them either to speak or to listen. Education is somewhat lower in the town, however it was quite refreshing to see kids acting like kids, running around, riding bikes, practicing cartwheels and handstands... One of the highlights of my evening before the presentation was playing a game of imaginary basketball with 5 neighborhood kids (8-12 yrs old)... 5 on one with no ball and no net. It was an absolute hoot running around calling the game according to who had the ball and where it was going... The kids really played well and I even got to see a super cool layup to 'no-look pass' with an assist slam dunk... Needless to say, I lost... 14-2... This kind of fun is really a nice change when compared to the serious, stressed out life of city kids for whom education is paramount.
Part of this is probably because there is only an elementary school in the village. When the kids get old enough, the family moves into town to be near the middle school/high school that is appropriate (kids' performance in school directly relates to which school they attend, much like Universities screen applicants to make sure students are of a level appropriate to the teaching).
It was very pleasant to enjoy listening to a language without feeling any need to pay attention to every syllable as well. I feel that there is a certain freedom with listening to a language that I understand none of and am not trying to learn.
Countries that were represented were Korea, Indonesia, Japan, Senegal, Paraguay and Mexico presented together with Canada bringin up the tail. Presentations were given in Chinese translated into BuNung language or Japanese (many of the older ones only speak their native language and Japanese, so don't even understand Chinese). Attendance peaked at around 100. Sure it doesn't sound like much, but that's like 12% of the entire town. Ages ranged from 5 years old to 87 for an amazing looking guy who didn't want a picture taken :(...
Some information statistics on my presentation:
The PowerPoint File has a runtime of 4:23 seconds and is set to 'Weekends and Pretty Things' by the Tragically Hip. This song was chosen for the sounds of nature including some Loon calls in the beginning which I played around with a bit with some creative use of PPT sound objects to get a few extra repetitions and fill in the first 30 seconds of the song a bit. I just noticed that in the statistics, 896 minutes were spent working on the .ppt file, excluding time spent gathering... I think I went out for dinner in the middle which ate up a couple of hours... I'm not sure if that's an embarrassing amount of time to have spent on it or not... I had to do a lot of learning as I went as it was my second PPT ever (the first is hardly worth mentioning) and all of the transitions are timed so it plays without any outside intervention, with all transitions nicely synchronized with the music... oh if only MS PP had a fast forward! I finished at around 3:00 am, about 5.5 hours before the meeting time to get on the bus.
I used 109 photographic images as well as a few non-photographic images on 15 slides.
Because the preparation took a lot longer than expected, I ended up completing only the first chapter of 6 topics prepared (originally planned to be around 40% of the total content), namely Canadian Geographical Locations.
Topics that I had to leave out include: Wildlife, Foods (especially including fruits and berries), Activities throughout Canada, Maple Syrup - start to finish and the People of Canada along with Social Issues. In the end, I'm glad I left out the last couple of chapters... not really appropriate for the audience. Runtime was supposed to be 10-15 minutes.
Because of this and because I was only able to finish to the end of the first chapter, I only ended up using a fraction of the 456 images that I collected for this purpose (note that I did not intend to use them all). Further, it would be a MAJOR undertaking to go back and search all of the individual names for each image, then try to figure out who needs thanks for the images, who needs thanks for using them and who needs thanks for just collecting the image, so as finals are also now approaching quickly, I decided just to hand out one big blanket thanks.
So...
Thanks to each and every one of you who put your images on the net. Thanks for putting the effort into taking these images, preparing them to look good and placing them into categories so people can view and enjoy them.
A great big thanks for those of you who have spent many hours, days, weeks, months and years learning how to make images from beginning to end so they look really good.
And to those of you who are not quite there yet, thanks as well because if you need something really obscure as I did and are running in a time frame, even an image of modest quality is helpful and appreciated. It sure fills in the gaps well.
Thanks for a fantastic resource for education, both photographic and other.
If I start naming names, I will feel a bit unbalanced, so I will mention only one name.
Special thanks to Karen Neuferland for letting me use the big pano of the harbour (and 9 other regular images). MS PowerPoint wasn't really what I would call smooth as it scrolled, but the picture looked really good by doing the move across in 3 slow shifts with 0.3 seconds to pause in between.
The grade for the midterm is based on the presentation, which also included a couple of other aspects, not the physical PPT file.
If I have time, I will try to post a couple of shots from the trip. Sorry, not really any good portraits as we spent most of the time hiking in the mountains and the few local people that we did encounter were generally fairly shy about pictures. |
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