I wish I knew what I was doing - DPChallenge Forums

Olympus 8mm f/1.8 M.Zuiko Digital ED Fisheye PRO Lens

05/12/2007 05:19:42 PM · #1

For ages now Iâ��ve been researching every conceivable dSLR in the lower end of the range. Finally I thought I had decided â�� Nikon D80 sounded like a fantastic camera. Only trouble was it was a bit large for my tiny hands and rather expensive.

Then I saw a Nikon D50 at what sounded like a wonderful price. A couple of days later, after recommendations from several DPC members, I went back to the (computer) shop with every intention of buying it. But they didnâ��t have a charged battery and told me Iâ��d have to come back the next day (today) if I wanted to try it out. Iâ��m convinced the staff there have no idea how the camera works either, so Iâ��m reluctant to go back.

I then went into another shop close buy, which didnâ��t have the D50 but had all the newer models. The ones that felt most comfortable were Nikon D40x and Canon 400D. The salesman recommended the Canon as he felt (as I do) that the limited availability of lenses that work as autofocus on the D40x was not in its favour. I said Iâ��d think about it and came home to do some more research.

Finally I convinced myself that I could live with its pros and cons. Until I started inspecting sample images from various review sites. When I compared photos of the same building taken with various different cameras, the photo taken with the Canon 400D looked awfully soft compared to any of the others. Even with unsharp mask it doesnâ��t look right. Is this a problem with this camera or is there a way around it?

Sadly the photo that looked most appealing was the one taken with the Nikon D40x. Iâ��d love to have that camera because its size is perfect for me, but donâ��t think Iâ��d be able to get the lenses I want. I feel like I know less now than I did in the beginning. I have to make a decision one way or another, but I just donâ��t know what to do next.

Canon EF 24-105mm f/4.0L IS

05/12/2007 05:25:31 PM · #2

Photo's from dSLR's tend to come out of the box soft. As long as its soft across the board im not sure it would be a concern. Most dSLR's do not sharpen the image. 99% of all point and shoots do if not 100%.

I think the D40/x is hammered up a bit in the output department for amateurs. as far as jpeg processing goes.

The purpose of not sharpening the image is so you can post process it the way you want. Typically theyll be their softest in RAW. Of course dont forget some cheap lenses will cause things to be soft sometimes just around the outside.

Being soft and not sharpened is a good thing to me.

Message edited by author 2007-05-12 17:27:01.

robs

Canon EOS R6 Mk II

05/12/2007 05:26:13 PM · #3

I would not make a decision on how sharp a web-ready image appears. It's far closer then with film but I think the lenses are still the hardware that makes sharp images not the body (film, all bodies were basically the same apart from features,speed). The nut behind the shutter is still likely to make far more difference then any of this stuff... I would look at the lenses you want longer term and buy into the body you can afford with this system.

yakatme

Lytro Illum Light Field Digital

Nikon AF-S Nikkor 17-35mm f/2.8D IF-ED

05/12/2007 05:27:21 PM · #4

From what you posted, the only reason I see for you not going with the D50 is that the battery wasn't charged and the salespeople seemed clueless.

Go with the D50.

Olympus 8mm f/1.8 M.Zuiko Digital ED Fisheye PRO Lens

05/12/2007 05:38:02 PM · #5

The problem is that ALL the 400D images seem soft and one of the reviews actually complained about that. I've examined photos of the same thing taken with 3 other dSLR's and they all look much better. Seeing that they were taken by the same photographer I can't imagine that it's the user to blame.

Originally posted by yakatme:

From what you posted, the only reason I see for you not going with the D50 is that the battery wasn't charged and the salespeople seemed clueless.

Go with the D50.

My main problem with the D50 is size. It's as big as the D80 and I'm not sure my tiny hands will be able to cope with it. And, for stock photography, I'd prefer to have 10mp as it would give me room to crop. But I'm still considering it.

However, if I was sure the picture quality on the 400D would be good enough, I'd probably go that way. I'm REALLY confused right now.

yakatme

Lytro Illum Light Field Digital

Nikon AF-S Nikkor 17-35mm f/2.8D IF-ED

05/12/2007 05:40:41 PM · #6

I don't think that there is a problem with the picture quality on any Nikon or Canon DSLR.

05/12/2007 05:41:55 PM · #7

These didnt seem to soft.... BUT they have been thouroughly processed.

Canon EF-S 18-55mm f/3.5-5.6 II

05/12/2007 05:42:27 PM · #8

Originally posted by yakatme:

I don't think that there is a problem with the picture quality on any Nikon or Canon DSLR.

Just mis exposure right mr D80?

superdave

Canon EOS-400D Rebel XTi

05/12/2007 05:42:34 PM · #9

They are soft straight out of the camera but its nothing sharpening can't fix. The xti takes incredible pictures. A friend let me borrow the d80 for a few weeks after i bought the xti. He said if i went with the Nikon he would cover the difference. I went with the xti. I can send you some unedited photos for you to mess around with and sharpen.

yakatme

Lytro Illum Light Field Digital

Nikon AF-S Nikkor 17-35mm f/2.8D IF-ED

05/12/2007 05:44:28 PM · #10

Originally posted by yakatme:

I don't think that there is a problem with the picture quality on any Nikon or Canon DSLR.

Also, I'll add that there are review sites such as DP Review that have better eyes than I have and very good methods of determining picture quality. Pick a site that you trust and go with there recommendation. In my experience, they know better.

Olympus 8mm f/1.8 M.Zuiko Digital ED Fisheye PRO Lens

05/12/2007 05:53:37 PM · #11

Most of the reviews were pretty positive, but one, (I can't remember which site it was), said:
"What I didn't care for:
Images on the soft side at default settings"

I presume if one is unhappy with the default settings there is a way to get around this, but never having used a dSLR, I'm not too clear on how easy or difficult it is. I tried unsharp mask on some of the samples and they still looked much worse than similar Nikon samples.

Admittedly the images look okay at smaller sizes, but when dealing with places like iStock, what they look like at 100% becomes very important. Lately they've been finding artifacts in everything I submit, even when every other stock site I submit to accepts them. If I spend money on a dSLR, I don't want them rejecting everything for being out of focus.

Brad

Olympus OM-D E-M1

Olympus 40-150mm f/2.8 PRO M.Zuiko

05/12/2007 05:55:03 PM · #12

Originally posted by GinaRothfels:

I have to make a decision one way or another, but I just donâ��t know what to do next.

Gina,
As others mentioned, digital images are soft by nature. Even Canon recommends sharpening and has settings for USM based on it's cameras. Another thing it the quality of the lenses used and how the images were post-processed and if they had any in-camera sharpening done.

I've post-processed RAW images from the MKII 1Ds and even they are on the soft side really, but after a light pass of USM, print real well (recent magazine cover shot).

Between the two, find out what fits your hands, which one has the controls in a logical place to you, which one has a better availability of lens and service and then make a decision, as either camera will yield more than satisfactory results.

05/12/2007 05:55:11 PM · #13

Originally posted by GinaRothfels:

I don't want them rejecting everything for being out of focus.

Is that the reason they give because out of focus and soft can be 2 different things.

Message edited by author 2007-05-12 17:55:28.

Olympus 8mm f/1.8 M.Zuiko Digital ED Fisheye PRO Lens

05/12/2007 05:56:12 PM · #14

Originally posted by superdave:

Thanks for the offer. With a slow dial-up connection, I think that might be tough on my computer. Though a 100% crop or two would be appreciated if it's not too much bother.

Olympus 8mm f/1.8 M.Zuiko Digital ED Fisheye PRO Lens

05/12/2007 05:59:35 PM · #15

Originally posted by RainMotorsports:

Originally posted by GinaRothfels:
I don't want them rejecting everything for being out of focus.

Is that the reason they give because out of focus and soft can be 2 different things.

With iStock I never know what the reason is going to be. With some of the images I actually found it difficult to tell where the focus was supposed to be.

Olympus 8mm f/1.8 M.Zuiko Digital ED Fisheye PRO Lens

05/12/2007 06:04:48 PM · #16

Originally posted by Brad:

Between the two, find out what fits your hands, which one has the controls in a logical place to you, which one has a better availability of lens and service and then make a decision, as either camera will yield more than satisfactory results.

The one that really fits my hand best is the Nikon D40x, but the lens constraints make that seem a bad choice. The next best fit is the Canon 400D. The most tempting part about the Nikon D50 is the price. But I'm not sure I'll be able to cope with it. The frightening part is that if I ever wanted to upgrade, the Canon 30D is even bigger than the Nikon D50 and D80. Seems I'll be stuck using entry level dSLRs even if I want something better.

Olympus 40-150mm f/2.8 PRO M.Zuiko

05/12/2007 06:07:31 PM · #17

Heh ill tell you whats price tempting to me. Pentax K10D, Kit Lens, Battery Grip and Spare Battery for 1,150. Option jumps in time to time giving people updates on what differed K10D packages cost lol.

Brad

Olympus OM-D E-M1

05/12/2007 06:16:15 PM · #18

Originally posted by GinaRothfels:

The frightening part is that if I ever wanted to upgrade, the Canon 30D is even bigger than the Nikon D50 and D80. Seems I'll be stuck using entry level dSLRs even if I want something better.

Get bigger hands?

There probably isn't much an "entry-level" dSLR can't do, or be noticeable for the most part anyway. Only time the big guns really pay off it full-frame sensors to make better use of certain lenses, more MP to allow cropping, more sophisticated AF systems and FPS and yield bigger prints. It is probably more hype than anything unless you really will be needing to be on that outer boundary.

Message edited by author 2007-05-12 18:19:46.

Olympus 8mm f/1.8 M.Zuiko Digital ED Fisheye PRO Lens

05/12/2007 06:17:32 PM · #19

Originally posted by RainMotorsports:

Again the size is a problem. And I've read of people having problems with focusing when the battery isn't fully charged. I must admit that for a long time that was the camera I thought I was going to get. A part of me still wants it, but I don't think it's going to happen.

Olympus 8mm f/1.8 M.Zuiko Digital ED Fisheye PRO Lens

05/12/2007 06:18:52 PM · #20

Originally posted by Brad:

Originally posted by GinaRothfels:
The frightening part is that if I ever wanted to upgrade, the Canon 30D is even bigger than the Nikon D50 and D80. Seems I'll be stuck using entry level dSLRs even if I want something better.

Get bigger hands?

Just tell me where I can buy some :)

Olympus 40-150mm f/2.8 PRO M.Zuiko

05/12/2007 06:20:14 PM · #21

Originally posted by GinaRothfels:

Originally posted by Brad:

Originally posted by GinaRothfels:
The frightening part is that if I ever wanted to upgrade, the Canon 30D is even bigger than the Nikon D50 and D80. Seems I'll be stuck using entry level dSLRs even if I want something better.

Get bigger hands?

Just tell me where I can buy some :)

Gloves work!

Brad

Olympus OM-D E-M1

05/12/2007 06:34:50 PM · #22

Originally posted by GinaRothfels:

One large hammer in right hand, whack the hell out of the left hand for a while.
Switch hands and repeat on the other hand.

Want quality?
Entry-level camera and top of the line lenses will make you happy.
Top of the line cameras with entry-level lenses will leave you unhappy.

It's all about the glass.

MadMan2k

Sony Alpha a6400

Tamron 70-180mm F/2.8 Di III VXD

05/12/2007 06:41:49 PM · #23

Since you're considering a D50, why not the Rebel XT (350D)? Nothing wrong with the files from that, but the lens makes much more difference than the sensor. The kit lens is nothing special if you pixel peep or make big prints from it. If that's your intention, you'll want primes or high end zooms.

Olympus 8mm f/1.8 M.Zuiko Digital ED Fisheye PRO Lens

05/12/2007 06:47:22 PM · #24

Originally posted by MadMan2k:

The D50 is available a lot cheaper than the 350D. And going by the reviews there seem to be a few problems with the 350D that Canon has corrected in the 400D. I can't remember what they were right now and as it's way past midnight here, I won't have time to check up on them now. But if picture quality is okay, I think I'd be happier with the newer technology.