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DPChallenge Forums >> Challenge Results >> Flower=Urban Legend????????
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 11/11/2002 01:29:00 PM · #1
I was very surprised that the flower shot won 2nd place. Don't get me wrong, it is an awesome flower shot, but without the title, it had nothing to do with the challenge.
 11/11/2002 01:41:25 PM · #2
but it was an excellent photograph as a whole and granted without the title it may not relate to the challenge - but it may not be an urban legend - yet a superstition or belief ...

overall it was a very nice photo - congrats!
 11/11/2002 01:47:16 PM · #3
The majority has spoken. Can't we just be happy for the winners. They did a terrific job.
 11/11/2002 01:49:40 PM · #4
To me, if about 1/3 of the petals been missing, it would have been stronger AND fit the challege (for those familiar with the superstition or game) without the title.
 11/11/2002 01:53:39 PM · #5
Originally posted by GeneralE:
To me, if about 1/3 of the petals been missing, it would have been stronger AND fit the challege (for those familiar with the superstition or game) without the title.

That's the way I felt, I am familiar with the superstition the photographer was reffering to, but felt it wasn't represented in the photograph.

 11/11/2002 02:23:49 PM · #6
I agree with paige.. The one that does it for me is "Dawn of Armegeddon".. There is nothing in that photo that says to me 'superstition'.. Granted, it is a killer photo of a sunset/rise but if all we need to do to place high is just send in our best photos and ignore the challenge then whats the point of setting challenges in the first place.. I'm all for a "freestudy" photography competition, but when there is a definitive task/topic/study to be met then maybe people should try to stick to it. This isn't sour grapes, I am happy with all the photos I submit, regardless of how they score, but at least I put a bit of effort into meeting the challenge, like some of the others who didn't place as well..

Also, it seems people are having problems with this style of challenge.. As JMSetzler put it in the DPfanatics forum, they are "Gimmicky" challenges.. But with the recent "macro" and probably the "Technology" challenge we will see the number of entries rise once more as people are given more of a subject focus.. Time will tell...

Originally posted by Paige:
Originally posted by GeneralE:
[i]To me, if about 1/3 of the petals been missing, it would have been stronger AND fit the challege (for those familiar with the superstition or game) without the title.

That's the way I felt, I am familiar with the superstition the photographer was reffering to, but felt it wasn't represented in the photograph.

[/i]



* This message has been edited by the author on 11/11/2002 2:41:16 PM.
 11/11/2002 04:28:46 PM · #7
I'm convinced we should try leaving out titles and see how people fair.

If we didn't rely on the title of an image we would be more concerned about MEETING THE CHALLENGE! It's frustrating when you put some time and energy coming up with something creative and unique and having a picture win 2nd place that doesn't really meet the challenge at all without its clever title.

Obviously the aesthetics of the image are quite a bit more important than the subject matter of the image. That's kind of sad.
 11/11/2002 05:03:00 PM · #8
Originally posted by BigSmiles:
I'm convinced we should try leaving out titles and see how people fair.



Wow that's a great idea! Best idea I have heard since I started on here... good thinking!

 11/11/2002 05:13:01 PM · #9
Originally posted by Anachronite:
Originally posted by BigSmiles:
[i]I'm convinced we should try leaving out titles and see how people fair.

Wow that's a great idea! Best idea I have heard since I started on here... good thinking!
[/i]

I think the "Untitled" challenge has been in the pool (and has been much discussed) for quite some time. It has been pointed out that every photo entered into a challenge has at least the name of the challenge itself as a functional, if not explicit, title
 11/11/2002 05:41:49 PM · #10
I'm starting to see the point to the untitled challenge, but I think it would have been very difficult to meet the challenge for superstitions without a title.
 11/11/2002 05:47:23 PM · #11
You would have to make sure your photograph tells the story on its own. There is no REASON why titles are necessary. They're helpful, sure but they're not necessary. I think it would improve our skills as photographers to not rely on titles every now and then

Plus it prevents people from submitting flower and sunset pictures and calling them superstitions.
 11/11/2002 07:13:05 PM · #12
I also was very surprised with these results. Most of the comments, including mine, that the flower picture received were about the petals. I agree that it is a beautiful picture of a flower, but there is a reason for the challenge.

I like these kind of challenges, with a very specific theme. I would not call them "gimmicky", instead I think they make you work harder on your creativity to shoot something that is a great picture and meets the challenge.

I like the idea of getting rid of the titles. The image itself should communicate a message, and the challenge. This could raise the bar in the site for better pictures.
 11/11/2002 08:31:27 PM · #13
I agree with the titles not being used to save a photo. I almost never even look at them when voting. One thing I always strive for in my own photos is to meet the challenge before it has a title, and to be technically good as well. I also try to throw in a technique here and there(this was my first attempt at motion).
I also felt that the flower photo should have had some petals already picked and several laying around. otherwise it doesn't meet the challenge without the title.
 11/11/2002 09:57:01 PM · #14
Ever heard of "red at night, sailor's delight...red in morning, sailor's take warning" or something like that? It has to do with a red sky predicting the weather to come, and IS a superstition. That is what I assumed the red sky pics were of since there were more than one.
The problem with people complaining about titles is that the picture might just fit the challenge, but the voter doesn't know it. Sure, they could spell it out in the title and then people complain about THAT. What do you want? I'd rather have a few cues because I know that I don't know everything and often forget half of what I do know. I don't want to mark someone's pic down just because I'm stupid.
Along the same lines, I wish everyone would stop automatically giving 1-3 scores b/c they don't see how it fits the challenge. That is just lame.

* This message has been edited by the author on 11/11/2002 9:58:58 PM.
 11/11/2002 10:18:24 PM · #15
Originally posted by indigo997:
I wish everyone would stop automatically giving 1-3 scores b/c they don't see how it fits the challenge. That is just lame

I personally don't see how people can just through out 1's so easily, and to even comment rudely on your shot, when they have no idea how long it took to set it up and work on it. In my book, 5 is an average shot, most people take these. 6-7 is above average, fewer take these but they have a little more detail in them as far as craftsmanship. 8-9 is semi-pro looking. Good attention to detail composition, lighting, etc. 10 pro looking all the way. Wouldn't change a thing to make the shot better. Every detail has been worked to perfection by the artist. On the flip side, 3-4 need some help with lighting and composition to bump them up to 5's and 1-2's look like last minute polaroids put up for one reason or another, but need a lot of work to put them into the running.

Rarely do I lowball a shot because it doesn't fit. I look at the quality and feel of the shot... does it grab me? If so, then it's at least a 5 even if I don't 'get it'.

-crabappl3
 11/11/2002 10:23:42 PM · #16
This site, at the end of the day, is run by the Lowest Common Denominator (LCD). You're never going to come up with a system that will bypass it. However you try to build in mechanisms to ensure that photos win or place on merit, they will always end up winning or placing based on POPULARITY. Don't fight it, work with it. If the winning photos matter that much to you, try to be the kind of photographer the LCD likes. Otherwise, forget about the placement and just enjoy the exercise.
 11/11/2002 11:54:45 PM · #17
And people thought I berate DPc voters :) LOL


Originally posted by lisae:
This site, at the end of the day, is run by the Lowest Common Denominator (LCD). You're never going to come up with a system that will bypass it. However you try to build in mechanisms to ensure that photos win or place on merit, they will always end up winning or placing based on POPULARITY. Don't fight it, work with it. If the winning photos matter that much to you, try to be the kind of photographer the LCD likes. Otherwise, forget about the placement and just enjoy the exercise.


 11/12/2002 01:57:54 AM · #18
Originally posted by paganini:
And people thought I berate DPc voters :) LOL


The trick is to berate them collectively, not individually, and couched in statistical/socialogical terms rather than personal ones.;)
 11/12/2002 02:25:12 AM · #19
Originally posted by crabappl3:
Originally posted by indigo997:
[i]I wish everyone would stop automatically giving 1-3 scores b/c they don't see how it fits the challenge. That is just lame

Rarely do I lowball a shot because it doesn't fit. I look at the quality and feel of the shot... does it grab me? If so, then it's at least a 5 even if I don't 'get it'.

-crabappl3[/i]

Which takes me back to what I said, why bother with topics at all????
 11/12/2002 02:32:41 AM · #20
To me meeting the challenge does matter ... otherwise we are going to get an open contest every week ... I have been giving the benefit of the doubt more than usually in the superstition .. but the description of the challenge did mention explicitly that you had to accomodate everybody with a 'well known' superstition ....
 11/12/2002 08:21:00 AM · #21
Thats why subjects like "technology", "garbage", "lightsource" are better as they are moe specific..

Saying that, technology can range from flint-axe to the spaceshuttle.. Even electric lightbulb would be classed as technology as before they was invented people had to watch the television in the dark :-)



Originally posted by lionelm:
To me meeting the challenge does matter ... otherwise we are going to get an open contest every week ... I have been giving the benefit of the doubt more than usually in the superstition .. but the description of the challenge did mention explicitly that you had to accomodate everybody with a 'well known' superstition ....




* This message has been edited by the author on 11/12/2002 8:18:40 AM.
 11/12/2002 10:03:53 AM · #22
Originally posted by paganini:
And people thought I berate DPc voters :) LOL

There was no criticism in what I said at all! Who am I to dictate taste to the majority? If you think it's "berating the voters" to just point out that this is a popularity contest, then why are you here?


* This message has been edited by the author on 11/12/2002 10:01:33 AM.
 11/12/2002 10:14:57 AM · #23
"I personally don't see how people can just through out 1's so easily, and to even comment rudely on your shot, when they have no idea how long it took to set it up and work on it"

I do not vote a 'performance' ... the viewer does not have to know if it took time for the setup .. it's not becasue it was 'hard to do' that it makes it a good shot.

Personnaly .. my average is 5, and I usually do a -1 to a -3 if it does not meet the challenge at all. that's how I vote.
If I encounter a very nice shot, not meeting the challenge ... I comment like " ...... 8 an other week, 5 this week" so that the photographer knowd that I like the picture a lot ...


"Rarely do I lowball a shot because it doesn't fit. I look at the quality and feel of the shot... does it grab me? If so, then it's at least a 5 even if I don't 'get it'"

You can give the benefit of the doubt .. but I do not think it's a good idea not to lower when it does not meet the challenge.

But that's only me ;-)
Lionel
 11/12/2002 10:49:04 AM · #24
what is ironic is that on other weeks, this discussion is exactly the opposite : ) ..

yes, it's true. many times the discussion is "why can't the voters be more relaxed about interpreting the challenge?"

"why must the voters be so literal?"

and other variants.

so here they are, not being literal, and we're still not happy!

LOL .. never win



 11/12/2002 11:29:56 AM · #25
Originally posted by indigo997:
Ever heard of "red at night, sailor's delight...red in morning, sailor's take warning" or something like that? It has to do with a red sky predicting the weather to come, and IS a superstition. That is what I assumed the red sky pics were of since there were more than one.
The problem with people complaining about titles is that the picture might just fit the challenge, but the voter doesn't know it. Sure, they could spell it out in the title and then people complain about THAT. What do you want? I'd rather have a few cues because I know that I don't know everything and often forget half of what I do know. I don't want to mark someone's pic down just because I'm stupid.
Along the same lines, I wish everyone would stop automatically giving 1-3 scores b/c they don't see how it fits the challenge. That is just lame
What's with the name calling here?
You don't know what "everyone" scores on each photo nor do you know why they score that way. I personally do know what the Flower shot was reffering to, it just did not represent the title, IMO, it desperatley needed a few plucked petals.



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