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05/04/2007 03:35:27 PM · #26 |
I hand out 1s probably more than others. My reasons are pretty solid for doing so.
1. DNMC, I am a stickler for this. If it is blatantly a DNMC it gets a 1 no matter what the photo looks like. They are themed challenges for a reason, if you want to enter any photo, enter free studies and don't waste voters time.
2. My only other reason is when the photo is technically terrible. I know its a learning site and that can be a bit harsh, but the truth sometimes hurts, but thats how you learn. No one benefits from their awful photo being voted a 6 to not hurt feelings. A teacher will fail a student if the work isn't up to par this shouldn't be any different. Competition here is getting stiffer all the time and people know what a winning shot looks like.
I never give photos that I just don't like a 1, thats not right. I tend to vote on technical merits first and then personal taste. If a photo is technically sound and a subject and comp I like it will get the 8-10. Technically sound and something I find rather boring Ill give it a 4-7.
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05/04/2007 03:44:11 PM · #27 |
Originally posted by stdavidson:
Originally posted by Rankles:
If a photograph doesn't meet the challenge in the slightest it can't get more than a four using my voting method, of which everyone's differs. Yours may have escaped with a 2 but I wouldn't have hesitated too much over giving it a 1 as even on it's own merit it doesn't stand too well. Everyone votes differently. By the way I didn't vote on that challenge.
You've got some good kit and some good portfolio shots, I'm sure you'll do better next time. |
It saddens me to read something like this.
Trashing a composition based on an interpretation of a challenge is a valid opinion all right, and I support you having an opinion and voting it, but this has nothing to do with photography and improving the photographer's ability to take better pictures. |
No you don't understand. I ALWAYS leave comments for votes below a three explaining why I voted as I did. In the case of a fantastic photograph not meeting the challenge I explain this in the comment. I have a 2:1 vote to comment ratio these days.
I don't just vote down the photo, I always give an opinion and reasoning.
The challenge fit is the single most important feature of any photograph on this site. If it wasn't, people would be winning landscape challenges with powerful portraits and vice versa. Missing the challenge description a bit like the threadstarter is negligible but ignoring it entirely does not deserve even a medium mark.
Originally posted by Jmnuggy:
I hand out 1s probably more than others. My reasons are pretty solid for doing so.
1. DNMC, I am a stickler for this. If it is blatantly a DNMC it gets a 1 no matter what the photo looks like. They are themed challenges for a reason, if you want to enter any photo, enter free studies and don't waste voters time.
2. My only other reason is when the photo is technically terrible. I know its a learning site and that can be a bit harsh, but the truth sometimes hurts, but thats how you learn. No one benefits from their awful photo being voted a 6 to not hurt feelings. A teacher will fail a student if the work isn't up to par this shouldn't be any different. Competition here is getting stiffer all the time and people know what a winning shot looks like.
I never give photos that I just don't like a 1, thats not right. I tend to vote on technical merits first and then personal taste. If a photo is technically sound and a subject and comp I like it will get the 8-10. Technically sound and something I find rather boring Ill give it a 4-7. |
You have an almost identical voting style to me, except my DNMC's can go up to a three if they're technically great but abosultely nothing to do with the challenge.
To refer to our voting style as saddening is to miss the point og this site - competition and learning. So long as all our low votes come with suitable comments I see no problem.
Message edited by author 2007-05-04 15:46:01. |
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05/04/2007 04:34:30 PM · #28 |
Originally posted by Rankles:
Originally posted by stdavidson:
Originally posted by Rankles:
If a photograph doesn't meet the challenge in the slightest it can't get more than a four using my voting method, of which everyone's differs. Yours may have escaped with a 2 but I wouldn't have hesitated too much over giving it a 1 as even on it's own merit it doesn't stand too well. Everyone votes differently. By the way I didn't vote on that challenge.
You've got some good kit and some good portfolio shots, I'm sure you'll do better next time. |
It saddens me to read something like this.
Trashing a composition based on an interpretation of a challenge is a valid opinion all right, and I support you having an opinion and voting it, but this has nothing to do with photography and improving the photographer's ability to take better pictures. |
No you don't understand. I ALWAYS leave comments for votes below a three explaining why I voted as I did. In the case of a fantastic photograph not meeting the challenge I explain this in the comment. I have a 2:1 vote to comment ratio these days.
I don't just vote down the photo, I always give an opinion and reasoning.
The challenge fit is the single most important feature of any photograph on this site. ... |
I agree with most everything you say and have two comments:
1-You have bragging rights. You comment on all images scored 3 or less and I rarely do. The ones I give a score of 3 or less are usually so bad that I can't think of constructive criticism to give. However, I seriously doubt either of us vote many images at or below 3.
2-We disagree that "The challenge fit is the single most important feature of any photograph on this site".
I think DPC is a teaching and learning site, not a competition site. In my opinion its most important feature is learning how to point a camera, compose a picture, check and set lighting and other camera settings correctly for a scene and snap the picture. After capturing the picture a person needs to learn how to apply minimal post processing to correct a camera's inability to accurately capture the scene as envisioned by the photographer and then go on to produce a pleasing output.
If you can't do that then no amount of "challenge fit" will mean anything. In my personal opinion, and ONLY my opinion, the challenge topic is just an excuse to learn those other things.
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05/04/2007 05:06:44 PM · #29 |
I do think that the challenge topic is important, but it's not the only criteria to take into consideration. I have a hard time giving anything better than a 4 to a DNMC photo.
I think of it this way: A teacher gives her class an assignment to write an essay about fish. One student turns in an essay about butterflies instead. It's the most beautifully written essay on the subject she's ever seen, but the topic of the assignment was wholly ignored. She's not going to reward the kid with an A, but neither is she likely to give it an F. It's probably going to be a C or D. Why not an A? Because for all the essay's beauty, the kid simply couldn't follow directions.
If the topic wasn't important, every challenge would be a free study.
In my DPC world, ONLY as it regards DNMC entries:
4 is a gorgeous photo
3 is an okay photo
2 is a bad photo
1 is utterly tasteless or has no redeeming qualities whatsoever
The rest of the scale operates along the same lines, but has a higher start value, so to speak. There's no "formula" to speak of, but 8 and 9 are exceptional entries, and a score of 10 is reserved for personal favorites.
I can't remember the last time I gave a 1 or 2, by the way.
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05/04/2007 05:12:39 PM · #30 |
Originally posted by Rebecca:
I think of it this way: A teacher gives her class an assignment to write an essay about fish. One student turns in an essay about butterflies instead. It's the most beautifully written essay on the subject she's ever seen, but the topic of the assignment was wholly ignored. |
Problem here is that all too often the topic is listed as something like "Ocean Life" ... and the beautiful essay on plankton is trashed because the voters were expecting a fish. |
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05/04/2007 05:12:51 PM · #31 |
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05/04/2007 05:15:34 PM · #32 |
Originally posted by GeneralE:
Originally posted by Rebecca:
I think of it this way: A teacher gives her class an assignment to write an essay about fish. One student turns in an essay about butterflies instead. It's the most beautifully written essay on the subject she's ever seen, but the topic of the assignment was wholly ignored. |
Problem here is that all too often the topic is listed as something like "Ocean Life" ... and the beautiful essay on plankton is trashed because the voters were expecting a fish. |
Good thing I know there's more than fish in the sea, since it's my voting philosophy. ;-)
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05/04/2007 05:28:40 PM · #33 |
Originally posted by stdavidson:
I agree with most everything you say and have two comments:
1-You have bragging rights. You comment on all images scored 3 or less and I rarely do. The ones I give a score of 3 or less are usually so bad that I can't think of constructive criticism to give. However, I seriously doubt either of us vote many images at or below 3.
2-We disagree that "The challenge fit is the single most important feature of any photograph on this site".
I think DPC is a teaching and learning site, not a competition site. In my opinion its most important feature is learning how to point a camera, compose a picture, check and set lighting and other camera settings correctly for a scene and snap the picture. After capturing the picture a person needs to learn how to apply minimal post processing to correct a camera's inability to accurately capture the scene as envisioned by the photographer and then go on to produce a pleasing output.
If you can't do that then no amount of "challenge fit" will mean anything. In my personal opinion, and ONLY my opinion, the challenge topic is just an excuse to learn those other things. |
I think at the end of the day it has very littl effect due to trhe vast array of voting styles here.
I mean, your votes cast is pretty high. Higher than mine, so I'm guessing you vote very few 3s or lower but then you probably get to cast many more votes than I do and thus have less time for comnmenting.
It's all relative really. Until problems begin to arise from either side of the scale such as portraits winning landscape challenges or really good images being marked down too strictly as a DNMC then it all balances out and from what I've seen here most ribons are well deserved. |
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05/04/2007 05:55:20 PM · #34 |
I give very few ones and twos. But this is balanced
out by my reluctance to give out nines and tens.
So no, I don't grade on a curve.
I have standards for each number in my mind.
Kind of like dog shows at Westminister
Ever browse through the worst rated pics gallery here
at DPC? They are so bad, some make me laugh.
When I encounter a photo on that level, I give it a one.
If it looks like the average four year old took
the photo, I give it a one.
Twos are given for photos that are very bad. Pic way too
small,or very blurry, or annoying glare, colors way off etc.
I give twos to DNMC that are average otherwise. If it's DNMC
but good otherwise, I give a three.
On the other extreme, nines and tens, creativity
comes to play. It may be a very clear great looking shot
that meets the challenge, but if not creative or unique,
I can't give anything higher than an eight.
Nines and Tens are ones I reserve for those
that I expect to challenge for a ribbon. Nothing less.
As a result, 1-2, and 9-10 combine for less
than 5 pct of all the votes I've given. Which seems right
to me. Most photos here at DPC are not in the extremes
bad or good.
Message edited by author 2007-05-04 18:11:35. |
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05/04/2007 06:14:45 PM · #35 |
DNMC is certainly a subjective thing. For example, my shot that won the fitness challenge got:
1 - 1
2 - 1
3 - 4
4 - 4
...despite finishing at 7.6xxx. I can almost guarantee those votes came from people who didn't realize that my photo is of a professional athlete.
At least no one had the nerve to leave a DNMC comment...
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05/04/2007 08:16:42 PM · #36 |
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05/04/2007 08:23:29 PM · #37 |
Originally posted by doctornick:
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LMAO |
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05/04/2007 08:31:16 PM · #38 |
Originally posted by Rebecca:
Since the subject was kitchen ware, and you gave the voters a photo of store shelves (read: not in a kitchen), there were probably several that felt it was bordering on not meeting the challenge. You admit it it's not a technically fantastic photo. You have a very normal voting distribution, and the photo scored right about where it should. Forming lynch mobs are just unnecessary. It's something you'll either get used to as you become part of the community here or it will drive you away from the site. |
I seriously doubt people got low votes for not shooting in a kitchen. This wasn't a kitchen challenge. Heck in the top ten only 1 looked like it was shot in a kitchen and that was MAK's and maybe metatate's. The rest look like studio shots.
Message edited by author 2007-05-04 20:32:17. |
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05/04/2007 08:35:48 PM · #39 |
Originally posted by yanko:
Originally posted by Rebecca:
Since the subject was kitchen ware, and you gave the voters a photo of store shelves (read: not in a kitchen), there were probably several that felt it was bordering on not meeting the challenge. You admit it it's not a technically fantastic photo. You have a very normal voting distribution, and the photo scored right about where it should. Forming lynch mobs are just unnecessary. It's something you'll either get used to as you become part of the community here or it will drive you away from the site. |
I seriously doubt people got low votes for not shooting in a kitchen. This wasn't a kitchen challenge. Heck in the top ten only 1 looked like it was shot in a kitchen and that was MAK's and maybe metatate's. The rest look like studio shots. |
No, but this particular photo didn't scream "stuff you find in a kitchen!" so much as it screamed "stuff you find in a Chinese grocery!" It had a different perception of place.
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05/04/2007 08:47:47 PM · #40 |
I'd give this a 1...
 |
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05/04/2007 08:54:03 PM · #41 |
Originally posted by Art Roflmao:
I'd give this a 1...
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LMAO.
You have got to be the funniest guy on this site.. |
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05/04/2007 09:15:43 PM · #42 |
I would like to say something concerning a low vote for not meeting the challenge. I know a lot of people get mad when people drop their vote if they feel it dnmc. I personally don't have a problem with that. Although I will not give a 1 for dnmc I will definitely lower it a point or two.
The way I look at it is, if you are supposed to vote based soley on technical merit then there is no point in having challenge guidelines in the first place. It's like going to a little league game of some sort where everyone wants to be pc and not have a actual winner. If you want to learn, making mistakes and having others point them out (in a helpful way) is the best way to learn ANY subject.
J |
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05/04/2007 10:21:26 PM · #43 |
Originally posted by Art Roflmao:
I'd give this a 1...
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DNMC - it needs to be recursive. |
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05/04/2007 10:27:08 PM · #44 |
Originally posted by option:
DNMC is certainly a subjective thing. For example, my shot that won the fitness challenge got:
1 - 1
2 - 1
3 - 4
4 - 4
...despite finishing at 7.6xxx. I can almost guarantee those votes came from people who didn't realize that my photo is of a professional athlete.
At least no one had the nerve to leave a DNMC comment... |
Lawl I gave you an 8.
Did not know that was a professional athlete..
Hard to tell from so far away. |
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05/04/2007 10:30:33 PM · #45 |
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05/04/2007 10:31:47 PM · #46 |
Originally posted by zardoz:
Is it dead yet? |
Not quite yet, apparently. : ) |
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05/04/2007 10:33:36 PM · #47 |
Originally posted by smartypants:
Originally posted by zardoz:
Is it dead yet? |
Not quite yet, apparently. : ) |
Should I poke it with a stick? |
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05/04/2007 10:37:58 PM · #48 |
Originally posted by zardoz:
Originally posted by smartypants:
Originally posted by zardoz:
Is it dead yet? |
Not quite yet, apparently. : ) |
Should I poke it with a stick? |
No, that's quite all right; I'll do that. Why don't you get the grave dug, just in case? |
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05/04/2007 10:42:14 PM · #49 |
| wow, if I knew how long this would get when I started this post, I would have simply said to myself "bah, 1's, who needs em" and left it at that. |
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05/04/2007 10:46:14 PM · #50 |
Originally posted by S_Lanterman:
wow, if I knew how long this would get when I started this post, I would have simply said to myself "bah, 1's, who needs em" and left it at that. |
LMAO while leaning on my shovel. |
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