Gas Prices - DPChallenge Forums

05/01/2007 07:34:09 PM · #127

Originally posted by Rino63:

Originally posted by sfalice:

Originally posted by Rino63:
a goat???????

Sure. Get a Goat and hitch it to a Goat Cart and drive it to work.

interesting solution :)

Yeah the original goat got bad gas mileage (Pontiac GTO).

05/01/2007 08:22:23 PM · #128

Originally posted by ClubJuggle:

Good choice... if more people drove cars like that it would do a lot to slow the price increases.

~Terry

I don't buy that for a minute. In fact, if everyone drove a hybrid. I'd wager a $1,000 it would not make that much difference.

The I.C.E. is a dead end road. We need to get away from it completely.

05/01/2007 08:24:51 PM · #129

Europeans who complain about the cost of gas forget something....

A large portion of you $5-$8/gallon is tax. These taxes go to your government which then provides you healthcare and various other supports.

So all of that has to be taken into account. Another factor is that nations like Great Britain, etc. have very little oil of their own. The United States on the other hand has oil and coal reserves. It allows for some negotiating. Though not so much these days as we've become more dependent on foreign oil.

Message edited by author 2007-05-01 20:28:40.

05/01/2007 08:36:37 PM · #130

.

Message edited by author 2007-05-01 20:37:41.

Canon EF 70-300mm f/4.5-5.6 DO IS USM

05/01/2007 08:44:00 PM · #131

Originally posted by theSaj:

Originally posted by ClubJuggle:

Good choice... if more people drove cars like that it would do a lot to slow the price increases.

~Terry

I don't buy that for a minute. In fact, if everyone drove a hybrid. I'd wager a $1,000 it would not make that much difference.

The I.C.E. is a dead end road. We need to get away from it completely.

The total cost of ownership including manufacturing costs, mainetnence fuel and destruction.

It actually costs more cents per mile to operate an H2 Hummer then A Honda Civic Hybrid. Google it someone released a case study on it.

In short term spurts the hybrids make it seem a bit easier onthe wallets. They do reduce the consumption of fuel but NOT total pollution. The reduced fuel polution is equally met with additional manufacturing pollution and maintenece pollution (Batteries creation and disposal).

A combination of Hybrids and alternative fuel will make a difference in the oil crisis and hopefully one day will result in less total pollution, vehicle and manufacturing combined. But its not quite there yet.

That said i live pay check to paycheck i one day might be able to afford the hybrid and in turn be able to afford the gas. But right now i cant afford either.

cpanaioti

Canon EOS-40D

05/01/2007 08:55:24 PM · #132

Originally posted by DrAchoo:

Originally posted by cpanaioti:
final answer: reel mower (or just pave the yard and paint it green)

Woo hoo! That's how I mow my lawn. I love it. Quiet. Cuts well. Don't have to worry about my kids getting their foot chopped off. No gas. No upkeep. No worries.

Pic of Scotts Reel Mower

That looks like the mower I have. Thank god I don't still have the electric one. I'd need two extension cords to do the lawn and I refuse to use a gas mower. Too messy, too noisy.

joshua

Canon EOS-500D Rebel T1i

Canon EF 50mm f/1.8 II

05/01/2007 09:17:15 PM · #133

kind of a side question...what does it cost for public transportation in your neck of the woods? around chicago it's 2 bucks for the elevated train, 2 bucks for the bus each ride

_eug

Nikon D50

Nikon AF Nikkor 50mm f/1.8D

05/01/2007 09:25:55 PM · #134

Originally posted by joshua:

kind of a side question...what does it cost for public transportation in your neck of the woods? around chicago it's 2 bucks for the elevated train, 2 bucks for the bus each ride

$2 for bus or train. $.60 for a transfer.
If you buy tokens you can get 10 for $13 making it $1.30 per trip. (I'll never understand why they do that.)

Regional Rail for suburban commuters is based on how far you go.

05/01/2007 09:26:20 PM · #135

Originally posted by inshaala:

But it could be if the money went back into subsidised public transport systems and public awareness programs... but then where is the american dream in that?

Have you ever taken public transport. Besides the safety issue of waiting at bus stops, etc.

It is extremely slow. Necessitating nearly 2 hours for a 20 minute commute. That's almost a rule of thumb for buses. For every 10-15 minutes of commute it will take an hour of bus commute.

Furthermore, much of our industry has moved out of our cities. As have residents. It's much more diffused. So it's nigh impossible to get good coverage of public transport over such a broad area.

Our cities have mainly been relegated to large commercial business (ie: corporations who need to communicate with each other, banks, etc) and social support.

Originally posted by "justamistere":

A recent article from MSNBC is Annual pump price rise is fast furious this year. I always say if you buy a large vehicle you should expect to pay for the luxury of owning one.

And I always say that people who say such comments are being stupid. Yes, there are a number of people driving monster trucks and Hummers to work on their commute. Most of these make so much money that if you raised it to $30/gallon they'd still continue to drive.

That said, a great many number of trucks, SUVs, etc. that you see on the road are owned by people with businesses. Many of whom can't afford to have two vehicles so they purchase the one that allows them to get the job done. I have a DJ business and a trailer. I sure ain't going to pull that trailer with a Prius. The other major reason is for people with fair sized families. There is often little difference between the mini-van and the SUV. Some slight difference in MPG. So many families opt for the SUV because it can do anything the mini-van can and comes with other features and abilities.

I own a Dodge Durango. I get about 11-14 mpg driving in the city. On the highway it fares much better. 19-22mpg usually, and sometimes I can even coax 25mpg out of it. That said, I was not in a position to afford a high-mpg vehicle in addition to the Durango. But guess what...? Even with my big giant Durango I was cleaner than most Americans. Why? Because I mainly worked from home. So I did not need to drive it for a commute.

We recently had to replace my wife's vehicle. We bought a used Prius as I will be starting a new job that will necessitate commuting to work. We had the need. We had justification. And personal finance situation has allowed us to get a second vehicle. This is not an option for most.

******

I am a firm believer in ingenuity over taxes. If you want additional tax, than make it a direct X-Prize for promoting research and development. I am a firm believer that ingenuity and creativity is the only real way to solve these problems.

Bio-Fuel is an option, just not the way we are thinking of it. Corn is not a good viable bio-fuel option. Just an easy one. But I was reading about a group that was having some success using algae/pond scum. Now, I was a marine science major for year and did a co-op at a sewage treatment plant. The main issue with sewage waste is that the end result of many plants is over-fertilized water. When it gets dumped into rivers or oceans it causes algae blooms, which die after the nutrients are used. Causing bacteria growth and then fish and animal life die.

So I sat here realizing that biofuel could be a superb option. If thought out intelligently. Pipe that nutrient rich waste water into shallow flat mile square 2 ft deep ponds. Grow the algae & pond scum. Which will remove the over-abundance of nutrients in the waste water. Then harvest the pond scum. Convert it to biomass, tada! (And on top of all of that. You'd also help cool the planet by removing CO2 and releasing Oxygen by adding additional green biomass.)

Imagine that, driving our cars on our own crap. To me, it seems like a much much better solution than simply raising taxes higher and higher so that all our governments can miss-spend it.

Originally posted by "_eug":

But there's no arguing that efficiency couldn't use a bump since (in the U.S) we're basically at the same level we've been at since the early to mid 1980s. 20 years and every technology has been able to be improved EXCEPT the internal combustion engine? Hogwash.

This is actually quite far from the truth. It's also interesting to note that the avg. cost for a vehicle has pretty much remained the same percentage of avg. income earned since like the 1920's. However, let's consider how much more car we have than we did in the 1920's. Or even the 80's. We have so many more features added into our cars over the decades from radios, to TVs, ABS brakes, air bags, etc. All of these add weight, require more energy draw, larger alternators, etc, etc.

Just take a moment to consider how much a dual/side airbag system adds to the weight of a vehicle. Remember how simple and small steering wheels used to be in the 60's & 70's. Now look at them with air bags. Then there are the passenger and side airbags. What about the multitude of sensors and other devices that make those airbags work on impact?

These are the things that it is so easy to forget and criticize. (ie: houses cost about the same percentage of income as they did before. Perhaps a bit more. But now days the houses we build and live in are 2-3 times the size of the ones back then.

We also drive much faster than back then. You'd be amazed what gas mileage you'd get from doing 40-60mph on the highway instead of 65-80mph.

*****

I also think they should offer a MPG rating at full passenger load. My Dodge Durango on they highway could potentially be more efficient than a Honda Insight hybrid. How? I can get 20+ MPG in my Durango on the HWY. A Honda Insight gets about 60mpg. But it only carries two people. I can carry 8 people. Let's say we're taking a 60 mile trip. The Honda would bring 2 people 60 miles on 1 gallon. So it would take 4 gallons to bring 8 people. My Durango could bring 8 people 60 miles for only 3 gallons. The point here is the right tool for the right job is most efficient. In truth, a lot of people aren't using the right tool for the right job. Why?

There are three reasons the way I see it:

1) They don't have the financial means to have all the tools to be most efficient so they purchase the one that can do the most jobs they need done.

2) Vanity

3) The right tool is not available and yet to be made.

[Let me explain. An SUV with lots of cargo space and room is need sometimes. But not all the time. Hybrid use both a gas engine and an electric. Wouldn't it be nice if you could have a large hybrid vehicle where a section could detach as merely a two seater powered by the electric motor. Imagine the driver and passenger being the control mechanism for the whole vehicle. But could seperate as a commuter vehicle akin to a small little smart car. Now that'd be the right tool for many of us.]

05/01/2007 09:34:49 PM · #136

Originally posted by joshua:

kind of a side question...what does it cost for public transportation in your neck of the woods? around chicago it's 2 bucks for the elevated train, 2 bucks for the bus each ride

In Baltimore/DC Mta Passes work on Buss's Lightrail and DC Metro.

SIngle ride is 1.60

Passes are good for unlimited rides for their length and good for all three.

Day pass = 3.50
Week Pass = 16.50
Monthly Pass = 64.00

05/01/2007 09:37:35 PM · #137

Originally posted by theSaj:

I also think they should offer a MPG rating at full passenger load. My Dodge Durango on they highway could potentially be more efficient than a Honda Insight hybrid. How? I can get 20+ MPG in my Durango on the HWY. A Honda Insight gets about 60mpg. But it only carries two people. I can carry 8 people. Let's say we're taking a 60 mile trip. The Honda would bring 2 people 60 miles on 1 gallon. So it would take 4 gallons to bring 8 people. My Durango could bring 8 people 60 miles for only 3 gallons. The point here is the right tool for the right job is most efficient. In truth, a lot of people aren't using the right tool for the right job.

However (keep in mind i have a 00 Dakota) a toyota of the same size range could get you better gas mileage of course.

Durango has a bit more comfortable spacing then a Ford Escap Hybrid but it should be able to carry 6 people. Not to mention its easy to build minivan hybrids.

With that said it still a valid point to have passenger based fuel economy or atleast people look at it that way.

Canon EF 24-105mm f/4.0L IS

05/01/2007 09:52:35 PM · #138

Originally posted by "RainMotorsports":

Durango has a bit more comfortable spacing then a Ford Escap Hybrid but it should be able to carry 6 people. Not to mention its easy to build minivan hybrids.

Actually the Highlander SUV/crossover (ie: rough road mini-vans) holds 7-passengers. And for a carpool commuter vehicle there is probably not a better choice.

****

TOTALLY UNRELATED, just expanding on crossover-SUV/4x4 mini-vans:

The Ford Escape & the Toyota Highlander hybrids are great alternatives for those looking for the functionality of a mini-van with some of the 4x4 and SUV handling features.

However, neither the Escape nor the Highlander are true SUVs if I recall correctly. They're more cross-overs. Built on car/vehicle frames in an SUV/truck style. So where they compete well with mini-vans they utterly fail in a number of truck areas.

I seriously considered the Highlander. No where near as roomy as my Durango. But it met my goals of a 7 passenger SUV and they had the hybrid coming out. Then I discovered that the Highlander was a front wheel drive vehicle and that the only power to the real axle was the 68 hp electric motor. I realized that I was not looking at a truck, I was looking at a off-road mini-van.

There was no way that the Highlander was going to be able to handle towing a few thousand lb trailer. Especially if I had to go on rough ground in which traction was lost. I realized it was not for me. Now that does not mean it's not for someone else. ( I am of the opinion that these crossover SUVs should not be put into the same category as true SUVs because it is really comparing apples to oranges and makes the latter look horrible when they are really a totally different class of vehicle.)

I originally endeavored to keep my Isuzu Rodeo running until the full-size SUV hybrid's arrived (which is expected in 2008). I even bought a used Honda Accord with 108,000 miles on it so that I could a) reduce wear and tear on my Rodeo and b) be more efficient and environmentally conscience. I found myself in a predictiment of having spent around $3-$4K on the vehicles only to have them both die on me. I could not afford to replace both vehicles. I chose to replace the one that did everything I needed. Namely, my Rodeo with my Durango. And later if I had the means to add another more efficient vehicle. Which I finally have now done.

But it always irks me when people criticize SUV and truck owners in blanket statements. In fact, many full size sudans fail to be much more efficient than SUVs. And if you really want a criticize a vehicle market class, how about things like Mustangs, Chargers, Jaguars, and numerous luxury sedans that actually perform WORSE in mpg efficiency than my Durango. And unlike trucks and SUVs they offer zero practical use. The sole reason is vanity.

Message edited by author 2007-05-01 21:54:08.

MelonMusketeer

Nikon D7000

Nikon MF 50mm f/1.4

05/01/2007 09:57:27 PM · #139

Question: "How many miles per gallon are you getting with your vehicle?"
Answer: "All of them." : )

DrAchoo

Panasonic Lumix DMC-LX5

05/01/2007 09:57:38 PM · #140

Originally posted by RainMotorsports:

It actually costs more cents per mile to operate an H2 Hummer then A Honda Civic Hybrid. Google it someone released a case study on it.

In short term spurts the hybrids make it seem a bit easier onthe wallets. They do reduce the consumption of fuel but NOT total pollution. The reduced fuel polution is equally met with additional manufacturing pollution and maintenece pollution (Batteries creation and disposal).

Do some more research on this study. Most peers consider it to be almost totally bogus with questionable bias in who funded it and some really outlandish assumptions to come up with the final answer (eg. Prius lifespan 100,000 miles...Hummer...300,000). They also made some big errors about energy use in the life of a vehicle. The peer analysis is something like 85% of the energy used is in the driving phase and 15% in the production/disposal phase. This study flips that on its head and says it's 15% driving, 85% production/disposal...

crayon

Samsung Galaxy S24 Ultra

05/01/2007 10:07:20 PM · #141

problem is with the people who drives a huge xx-litre engine vehicles, only to transport their lone fat-ass from the house to the shop just a few metres down the block. all the fuel saving in the world wont work because of this kind of attitude.

cpanaioti

Canon EOS-40D

Canon EF 70-300mm f/4.5-5.6 DO IS USM

05/01/2007 10:08:31 PM · #142

Originally posted by joshua:

kind of a side question...what does it cost for public transportation in your neck of the woods? around chicago it's 2 bucks for the elevated train, 2 bucks for the bus each ride

$59/month (for my employer to pay - he he)

Though soon it's going up to around $75/month. Still low compared to other cities of comparable size.

DrAchoo

Panasonic Lumix DMC-LX5

Canon EF 24-105mm f/4.0L IS

05/01/2007 10:11:51 PM · #143

Originally posted by joshua:

kind of a side question...what does it cost for public transportation in your neck of the woods? around chicago it's 2 bucks for the elevated train, 2 bucks for the bus each ride

Wouldn't you be spending this much a day in gas/parking?

Canon EF 24-105mm f/4.0L IS

05/01/2007 10:15:12 PM · #144

Originally posted by DrAchoo:

I work for a ford dealer and that said prople ditch F-150's around 200-250,000 miles.

The Hummer H2 uses the same getup as a Suburban which steals its getup from the Silverado Lineup.

What im getting at is people throw away cars when they can afford to replace them. People tend to keep trucks, and those who buy used tend to fix them for a long time. That is why you will find Silverdao 1500's 2500's and some 3500's with 350-450,000 miles on the chassis and no more then their second engine and a rebuilt trans.

I can understand some things will be stretched but as far as large GM trucks being driven to 300 to 400,000 miles and cars being ditched between 80-120,000 miles its quite common as far as i have seen.

When i goto junkyards there are very few pickup trucks. And ALOT of cars. Its been apparent to me for a long time while the trucks dont necessarily last that much longer it seems more people are willing to buy them used and or just keep fixing them.

At the dealer we do at least 3 engine swaps a week. Maybe 4 cars per year the rest are all trucks.

DrAchoo

Panasonic Lumix DMC-LX5

05/01/2007 10:20:12 PM · #145

Originally posted by RainMotorsports:

When i goto junkyards there are very few pickup trucks. And ALOT of cars.

Wouldn't I just assume there are a lot more cars out there than trucks?

If you use this line of thinking I'd have to ask you how many hybrids you see in the junk yard? The answer would make me assume that hybrids are hardly EVER thrown away...

Message edited by author 2007-05-01 22:21:10.

05/01/2007 10:26:17 PM · #146

Originally posted by DrAchoo:

Originally posted by RainMotorsports:
When i goto junkyards there are very few pickup trucks. And ALOT of cars.

Wouldn't I just assume there are a lot more cars out there than trucks?

I see alot more Gold and Maroon 88-91 Honda Civics on the road then any other colors so i would assume they were the most popular color right?

What i mean is I goto 10 of the possibly lets guess 100 junkyards in Baltimore. 4 of these 10 are owned by "Crazy Rays" great place fixed prices the most expensive item is 150 bucks whch is an engine.

I see 80% cars, 12% vans, 2% truck's 1% Bus's. Now dismantlers are different from junkyards and you will find more dismantlers with trucks. Dismantlers buy trucks from "total loss" insurance auctions. They buy truck parts because they sell better and have a better profit margin.

Thats said i could be wrong Im not a car salesmen i work int he parts department. But i cant seem to explain all these 80's and 90's trucks people need parts for lol. My personal experience comes from keeping my family's trucks on the road and junkyards dont seem to have what i need.

I am however off to go lookup Ford's car to truck build ratio.....

EDIT - How long have hybrids been main stream? ANd as im walking through the yard as i said before, im not gonna see an Accord and say ooh accord hybrid or civic hybrid or escape hybrid. Theres more then just Prius's and what not.

That said they have been building trucks since 1908 how long have they built mass produced hybrids?

Message edited by author 2007-05-01 22:27:56.

Cam

Sony DSC-F717

05/01/2007 10:30:44 PM · #147

Originally posted by DrAchoo:

Wouldn't I just assume there are a lot more cars out there than trucks?

Ever been to Texas? We like our trucks here.

05/01/2007 10:36:26 PM · #148

Originally posted by Cam:

Originally posted by DrAchoo:

Wouldn't I just assume there are a lot more cars out there than trucks?

Ever been to Texas? We like our trucks here.

Wasnt gonna say this but I see as many F-150's as i see Mustangs on the lot. This has NOTHING todo with sales and distribution.

AT the same time i was born in north carolina, lived on the eastern shore of maryland and now live in baltimore city and i still dont see a difference where i go. PLenty of Super Duty Truck's on the beltway.

That also said full commercial trucks tend to go 500,000 miles before being overhauled much more thrown away.
Kinda leading away from the whole gas price/ economy discussion but i still stand by my observations that people tend to fix a truck and ditch a car.

Message edited by author 2007-05-01 22:37:36.

crayon

Samsung Galaxy S24 Ultra

05/01/2007 10:37:56 PM · #149

Originally posted by Cam:

Originally posted by DrAchoo:

Wouldn't I just assume there are a lot more cars out there than trucks?

Ever been to Texas? We like our trucks here.

it's region specific. in some countries, trucks are used only by construction/blue collar workers.