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05/01/2007 04:07:35 PM · #76 |
$3.379/gal is prety cheap here in California.The price is just under $4/ gal at our local full service station.
Of course at the pump prices don't represent the full cost of gasoline. Our nation's ability to assure the flow of oil is bolstered by non fuel taxes which pay for diplomatic and military forces that are historically and are currently used to assure that we have access the diminishing supply of oil. The cost of roads and the results of accidents and pollution created by cars is not in the standard equation either. If you add all those sorts of costs to the mix, mass transit and alternative energy production become more competetive. |
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05/01/2007 04:19:21 PM · #77 |
gas prices are crazy.... here in NYC I think this weekend I just paid around $3.50....... I am glad I dont drive to work anymore I only drive my car on the weekends. I notice now that in my neighborhood if you dont have a driveway/garage, it getting harder to find a place to park now cause more and more people in my neighborhood are not driving to work anymore, not only that people park in my neighborhood and jump on the train and go to work in the city... again to save on gas or just not too pay for parking in the city.
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05/01/2007 04:24:37 PM · #78 |
Originally posted by digitalpins:
gas prices are crazy.... here in NYC I think this weekend I just paid around $3.50....... I am glad I dont drive to work anymore I only drive my car on the weekends. I notice now that in my neighborhood if you dont have a driveway/garage, it getting harder to find a place to park now cause more and more people in my neighborhood are not driving to work anymore, not only that people park in my neighborhood and jump on the train and go to work in the city... again to save on gas or just not too pay for parking in the city. |
I think 3.50$/gal 1 gal=3.78 L i.e. 0.92$/L a dream :) |
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05/01/2007 04:31:15 PM · #79 |
Originally posted by justamistere:
There are about 20 videos on youtube.com about "Hydrogen". Everything from small-time inventors, big-business prototypes, to how-2-build-DIY plans. BMW, Mercedes Benz, Chrysler, and Honda, all have created cars running on Hydrogen Fuel-Cells and even a Liquid Hydrogen BMW race car.
They have Zero-Emissions (only water) and Do-Not use gasoline.
The only thing that may slow down this Revolution, is Governments and the Big oil companies.
So that may be a reason for rising gasoline prices, now and in the next few years. |
No doubt, rising prices of non-renewable energy sources (oil, natural gas) will drive research and development of alternatives. That's a given, and it's as it should be.
the problem with hydrogen power is that in order to create the hydrogen, you need electrical energy which must be generated *somehow.* The electrical energy required is somewhat greater than the power you get back from burning the hydrogen. If non-renewable sources are used to generate the hydrogen, you're no further ahead than if you'd burned the non-renewable fuel directly in the vehicle to begin with. In fact, you're worse off because you've done two energy transactions, each with some inefficiency, and you've had to create an entirely new infrastructure to support it, with associated energy and environmental costs.
The above ignores the low energy density of hydrogen, which is a huge problem in itself.
Bottom line, gasoline and diesel as motor fuels have a limited lifetime. We do need to find renewable alternatives, but hydrogen itself is not an answer, unless it can be created using totally renewable energy sources. |
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05/01/2007 04:44:20 PM · #80 |
The use of ethanol also brings it own problems. Less cancer, more ozone kills and increased lung problems.
Bit technical but interesting:
//www.stanford.edu/group/efmh/jacobson/E85PaperEST0207.pdf
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05/01/2007 04:44:43 PM · #81 |
| at this time there aren't totally renewable energy sources. wind,sun are good only for something, nuclear fusion is far.... I think that for other 15/20 years will have always the same motors with an higher performance but the same motors. |
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05/01/2007 04:48:06 PM · #82 |
And bio-fuel is not really a solution either. When for example you get fuel from corn, the demand for corn rises. Supply won't be able to keep up with the demand and in the end you are paying more and more for both fuel and corn based food.
Colza-Diesel, popular in Europe creates the problem that you need a lot of land to grow it. Land that you also need to grow food on or to let cows and sheep graze on. So in the end the demand for the fuel increases the price of milk, bread and steaks...
One way or another, you are going to pay.
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05/01/2007 04:49:23 PM · #83 |
Originally posted by Rino63:
at this time there aren't totally renewable energy sources. wind,sun are good only for something, nuclear fusion is far.... I think that for other 15/20 years will have always the same motors with an higher performance but the same motors. |
But there's no arguing that efficiency couldn't use a bump since (in the U.S) we're basically at the same level we've been at since the early to mid 1980s. 20 years and every technology has been able to be improved EXCEPT the internal combustion engine? Hogwash.
ETA: Oops 20 not 2!
Message edited by author 2007-05-01 16:59:07. |
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05/01/2007 04:50:39 PM · #84 |
Originally posted by Azrifel:
And bio-fuel is not really a solution either. When for example you get fuel from corn, the demand for corn rises. |
Ethanol is made from corn. Bio-diesel is made from soybeans. ;) |
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05/01/2007 04:53:19 PM · #85 |
Originally posted by Rino63:
at this time there aren't totally renewable energy sources. wind,sun are good only for something, nuclear fusion is far.... I think that for other 15/20 years will have always the same motors with an higher performance but the same motors. |
The only thing you reall need is steam to drive a turbine. Perhaps Italy can build a kind of vulcano-energy station on the slopes of Mount Vesuvius and Etna. Drill a hole in the hot spots of the vulcano (but not into the magma chambers and canals), throw in water, get steam back an drive a turbine. Turbine can be used to create electricity, electricity can be used to create Hydrogen, to power you airco (vulcano heat cools your house, imagine that) etc. I am sure some bright minds somewhere are or already have checked out the possibilities of this (probably not possible).
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05/01/2007 04:55:08 PM · #86 |
Originally posted by _eug:
Originally posted by Rino63:
at this time there aren't totally renewable energy sources. wind,sun are good only for something, nuclear fusion is far.... I think that for other 15/20 years will have always the same motors with an higher performance but the same motors. |
But there's no arguing that efficiency couldn't use a bump since (in the U.S) we're basically at the same level we've been at since the early to mid 1980s. 2 years and every technology has been able to be improved EXCEPT the internal combustion engine? Hogwash. |
the most incredible thing is that the modern engine works with the old thermodynamics without a real progress. |
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05/01/2007 04:55:53 PM · #87 |
I've always wanted to wear a cowboy hat & chaps, and ride a horse. Let's all get horses!
It's tough to decide on a colour and pattern, though. I think solid black, though slick, might be too serious for me. Zebra, ha, much too showy. White is nice if you're a chick. Polka dot is probably more my style.
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05/01/2007 04:56:37 PM · #88 |
Originally posted by Strikeslip:
I've always wanted to wear a cowboy hat & chaps, and ride a horse. Let's all get horses!
It's tough to decide on a colour and pattern, though. I think solid black, though slick, might be too serious for me. Zebra, ha, much too showy. White is nice if you're a chick. Polka dot is probably more my style. |
Clidesdale |
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05/01/2007 05:00:54 PM · #89 |
Originally posted by Strikeslip:
I've always wanted to wear a cowboy hat & chaps, and ride a horse. Let's all get horses!
It's tough to decide on a colour and pattern, though. I think solid black, though slick, might be too serious for me. Zebra, ha, much too showy. White is nice if you're a chick. Polka dot is probably more my style. |
If tomorrow I go to my school on an horse i must change work :) I imagine my students and their smiles.... it would be the end of my career :)
Message edited by author 2007-05-01 17:04:32. |
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05/01/2007 05:07:39 PM · #90 |
Originally posted by _eug:
But there's no arguing that efficiency couldn't use a bump since (in the U.S) we're basically at the same level we've been at since the early to mid 1980s. 2 years and every technology has been able to be improved EXCEPT the internal combustion engine? Hogwash. |
Engines are a LOT more efficient - the makers just chose HP over economy.
YOu can buy many cards and trucks with 300-400 HP and still get 15 mpg. Back in the muscle car days very very few vehicles actually made that HP and 10 (or less) mpg was common.
I do agree that in the early 80s cars were smaller, lighter and while they only had 98hp they did get 25-30 in the city and 35+ on the highway. there was a Civic that got 50 - no hybrid crapola either.
My friend has an 07 Altima and gets 26mpg with 270 HP - with a 3.5L V6. My question - could he not have a 1.7L 3 cyl with 135hp and get 35 mpg? Or more?
I think the Feds need to up the CAFE - it's 27mpg, and has been for 25 years. There's been a LOT of innovation and technology since then. It could be 35mpg and our standard of living/driving would not diminish, but might improve with the money saved on gas.
Message edited by author 2007-05-01 17:09:13.
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05/01/2007 05:08:12 PM · #91 |
Originally posted by cpanaioti:
Clidesdale |
the SUV of horses!
Message edited by author 2007-05-01 17:08:20.
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05/01/2007 05:13:37 PM · #92 |
Originally posted by Prof_Fate:
Originally posted by cpanaioti:
Clidesdale |
the SUV of horses! |
Just think of the size of pooper scooper you'd need. |
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05/01/2007 05:14:05 PM · #93 |
Originally posted by _eug:
[quote=DrAchoo]
I'd love to see prices double and listen to those jerks scream and moan, "Whoa is me! Whoa is me!" It's your own damn fault. |
Those "jerks" don't even pay attention to the prices. I know two people who have them and price of gasoline might hit their screens when it goes over 25 dollars a gallon. They'll still drive the hummer but *then* they'd complain about it. Not many average people drive hummers over here in the states. We had out chance to fix the problems starting in the 70's but as soon as gasoline supplies and prices stablized it was right back to the big cars. I've not driven a car with a automatic transmission since 1984. I've had three autos in that time and they average 25mpg in city and 30 to 35 mpg on trips. I've got my eye out rignt now for a used 3 cylinder model that's more like 35mpg to 50 mpg. But monies are tite. And I'd sure hate to get hit by a Ford Gargantua while driving it!
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05/01/2007 05:17:27 PM · #94 |
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05/01/2007 05:18:29 PM · #95 |
Originally posted by Rino63:
please what means mpg? |
miles per gallon |
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05/01/2007 05:19:00 PM · #96 |
Originally posted by Prof_Fate:
I think the Feds need to up the CAFE - it's 27mpg, and has been for 25 years. There's been a LOT of innovation and technology since then. It could be 35mpg and our standard of living/driving would not diminish, but might improve with the money saved on gas. |
It think it needs to go further. Since 'Utility Vehicles' were once the domain of construction and commerce they were exempt from CAFE. Since they are now mostly purchased by the general public I think they should not be exempted. |
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05/01/2007 05:21:05 PM · #97 |
Originally posted by Rino63:
please what means mpg? |
\
MPG = Miles Per Gallon |
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05/01/2007 05:22:29 PM · #98 |
Originally posted by SaraR:
Originally posted by Rino63:
please what means mpg? |
miles per gallon |
thanks, hence i have a 28mpg :) |
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05/01/2007 05:23:10 PM · #99 |
Originally posted by fir3bird:
Originally posted by _eug:
[quote=DrAchoo]
I'd love to see prices double and listen to those jerks scream and moan, "Whoa is me! Whoa is me!" It's your own damn fault. |
Those "jerks" don't even pay attention to the prices. I know two people who have them and price of gasoline might hit their screens when it goes over 25 dollars a gallon. They'll still drive the hummer but *then* they'd complain about it. Not many average people drive hummers over here in the states. We had out chance to fix the problems starting in the 70's but as soon as gasoline supplies and prices stablized it was right back to the big cars. I've not driven a car with a automatic transmission since 1984. I've had three autos in that time and they average 25mpg in city and 30 to 35 mpg on trips. I've got my eye out rignt now for a used 3 cylinder model that's more like 35mpg to 50 mpg. But monies are tite. And I'd sure hate to get hit by a Ford Gargantua while driving it! |
Someone has misquoted me up there...
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05/01/2007 05:25:39 PM · #100 |
Originally posted by _eug:
Originally posted by Prof_Fate:
I think the Feds need to up the CAFE - it's 27mpg, and has been for 25 years. There's been a LOT of innovation and technology since then. It could be 35mpg and our standard of living/driving would not diminish, but might improve with the money saved on gas. |
It think it needs to go further. Since 'Utility Vehicles' were once the domain of construction and commerce they were exempt from CAFE. Since they are now mostly purchased by the general public I think they should not be exempted. |
Amen! I think regardless of what you think about An Inconvenient Truth the presentation of CAFE standards of different countries was eye opening. I'm not sure how Gore could twist those stats (perhaps he could). The auto lobby has done an effective job of keeping reasonable things from being done.
Message edited by author 2007-05-01 17:26:13.
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