Client friend photos dilemma....need some advice!!

Tamron SP AF 28-75mm f/2.8 XR Di for Canon

04/24/2007 11:05:25 AM · #1

I decided to help a friend out for his budding T-shirt company. I told him that I would take photos for him of models in his shirts. I also told him that I would take photos of the three guys that started the company. The deal was that I'd give him three edited shots of each model in each shirt. I could use the rest of the photos for stock or whatever purposes I want.

So here is where the dilemma comes in. I sent him edited photos of the model on a contact sheet. I made the sheet have only 12 photos per 8x10 page. There were about 100 photos all already edited. He's narrowed it down to 10 and wants to the full size of each photo to see what they look like. Giving him 10 full sized photos sorta defeats the purpose of him choosing only 3 because now he has 10. How do I tell him that i can't give him the full size...or at least make it so he can't use the full sized photos.

Second dilemma, I took photos of him and the two other guys starting the business this weekend. He's already stated that he wants to see all the full sized photos of those. That's 100 photos...I said he could choose 5 of each guy and 5 of the group....giving him 100 full sized photos defeats the purpose of letting choose 5 of each.

Any advice anyone?????

Valdo

Canon EOS-40D

04/24/2007 11:07:20 AM · #2

Just tell him. ;)

ETA: not much help at that right? maybe your friend is not aware of what it implies what he is asking. For him it might be a natural thing to ask. Just tell him he has to choose from the proofs. Maybe you can burn him a CD/DVD with the proofs so that he can see them better on the screen.

Message edited by author 2007-04-24 11:11:15.

littlegett

Canon EOS-20D

Canon EF 17-40mm f/4.0L USM

04/24/2007 11:09:51 AM · #3

low res web proofs. ridiculously low dpi so it would be worthless to print..

or

set an appointment, view images on computer, or, make prints allow him to look in your presents and return the prints (never leaving your sight)

or

Tell him, Dude, just pick an image already, I can't afford to make 400 prints. thats expensive.

renefunk

Canon EOS-5D

Canon EF 17-40mm f/4.0L USM

04/24/2007 11:12:16 AM · #4

charged him the prints + 30% for your time

Tamron SP AF 28-75mm f/2.8 XR Di for Canon

04/24/2007 11:13:58 AM · #5

thanks so far...I should clarify.. the final photos he gets are going to be on CD. The main use he wants for them is to put them on the company website. So low res photos can still be used. I thought about that one.

FireBird

04/24/2007 11:17:40 AM · #6

Originally posted by albc28:

\

Any advice anyone?????

Your friend and your computer need to meet up.

Valdo

Canon EOS-40D

04/24/2007 11:27:12 AM · #7

Originally posted by fir3bird:

Originally posted by albc28:
\

Any advice anyone?????

Your friend and your computer need to meet up.

Either that of proofs with a nasty watermark ;)

wavelength

Nikon D300

Nikon AF Nikkor 50mm f/1.8D

04/24/2007 11:28:15 AM · #8

Originally posted by Valdo:

Originally posted by fir3bird:

Originally posted by albc28:
\

Any advice anyone?????

Your friend and your computer need to meet up.

Either that of proofs with a nasty watermark ;)

Yep, both would do.

downtherabbithole

Canon EOS-30D

Canon EF 28-135mm f/3.5-5.6 IS USM

04/24/2007 11:40:44 AM · #9

in the digitial age, there is no need to print proofs...ever.

Beautiful-Joe

Olympus Stylus 770 SW

04/24/2007 11:43:24 AM · #10

I'd watermark them or even put a large black mark with an airbrush thing across them. Airbrush because it blurs when cloned out. Watermarking would do the trick too unless he's like.. Really determined.

NVPhoto

Canon EOS-40D

Fisher Price Kid-Tough Digital

04/24/2007 11:47:07 AM · #11

Just let him use whatever he wants. He is a friend right. Are you really going to be making any serious money, probably not. Make him take you out for a beer and give you a photo credit. He is either going to use your professional photos or put some crap that he takes w/ a little P&S. There is nothing to be gained in this situation so I would just give him the photos high res/low res it doesn't matter and use it as part of your portfolio.

If his business takes off, he will need more photos. When he can pay you decent money, thats when you should charge him decent money. No use in making a big deal over what is probably less than a hundred bucks.

Beautiful-Joe

Olympus Stylus 770 SW

04/24/2007 11:50:08 AM · #12

Well..
And I just KNOW I'll get bitched at for saying this,
but it's just a photograph.
It isn't a golden sculpture of Pam Anderson or anything.
Plus..
Where else would the shots be useful?
Few other people will find alot of use for modeling photographs of a certain brand of shirts.

*Waits for attacking*

Bugzeye

04/24/2007 11:58:27 AM · #13

I would tell him that you would rather he look at the full sized originals at which time you could edit one to his liking this will give him a good idea what the rest will look like after processing, then he can view the rest of the originals on your computer and choose the rest he would like processed. This can save you some time as well because you will only need to edit the photos that are going to be used.

Spork99

OM System OM-1

Canon EF 100mm f/2.8 USM Macro

04/24/2007 12:01:00 PM · #14

Originally posted by Beautiful-Joe:

No need to attack, but your post shows an ignorance of IP rights and how they work to artists and the works they create.

Spork99

OM System OM-1

Canon EF 100mm f/2.8 USM Macro

04/24/2007 12:05:19 PM · #15

Ask him why he wants so many prints. Then explain how that goes way beyond your original agreement and represents more work than you had bargained for. If he's really a friend, he'll understand, appreciate your honesty and hopefully you can work something out. Maybe some free T shirts? a credit line on the website? beer?

downtherabbithole

Canon EOS-30D

Canon EF 28-135mm f/3.5-5.6 IS USM

04/24/2007 12:07:47 PM · #16

Originally posted by Spazmo99:

Maybe some free T shirts? a credit line on the website? beer?

lol that made me laugh.

Nullix

Canon EOS-5D Mark III

Canon EF 17-40mm f/4.0L USM

04/24/2007 01:00:49 PM · #17

Next time you do a job for a friend for nothing, you should probably tell him how much the job really costs.

He probably thinks since it's so easy you're doing it for free, there's no worth to the work or any extras he needs. After all, you're doing it for free.

If you attach a price to it, then he might realize how much a favor you're doing and won't bother to ask, "Can I get 8x10s of everything."

04/24/2007 01:06:15 PM · #18

Okay to answer a few questions. Yes he is a friend, but at the same time he has a business he his running. It's not that I don't trust him in not using the other shots...it's the fact that if I start giving him 10 to view at actual size, I might as well not give him a limit on how many shots he can have.

What can I do with the shots...Several things. The shirts don't show a label, they have different sayings about NJ, great colors ect. They are normal t-shirts...so i can use them in any type of casual, fashion, or model shot. So they photos could be use for stock (if I chose too) and not need a separate release...on top of that. I do have a release in case he decides to make shirts that do show the label. I got releases to use shirts with his label for whatever purposes...so they could also be used in stock (if i chose). Here is the website so you can see what the shirts (well drawings of the shirts until he changes the website to include my pictures) www.dirtyjerseys.com

BUT...I found the solution to my dilemmas. I have a solomodels website. I can upload full sized photos to the website and he can view them there, but can't copy them. That way he can narrow it down to the three he wants. What I'll do is dedicate the commercial section strictly for photos of his choice, but he would have to narrow it down to 10 orless photos prior to me uploading them to Solomodels.

04/24/2007 09:07:01 PM · #19

okay..that plan didn't really work. How about if i send them to him like this??? This should work, he can clearly see the photo and he can't use it unless he is extremely good at removing the copyright and the photo is too small to really use.

Message edited by author 2007-04-25 11:33:29.

Sigma 24-70mm f/2.8 EX Aspherical DF for Canon

04/25/2007 08:24:47 AM · #20

bump

hankk

Canon EOS-5D

04/25/2007 08:25:00 AM · #21

Sometimes its better to say "yes".

Like in: You want all the shots? OK, here's the price.

Just make sure you get paid before you deliver.

PhantomEWO

Canon EOS-5D Mark II

Canon EF 70-200mm f/2.8L IS USM

04/25/2007 08:58:34 AM · #22

First never shoot for a friend unless you are willing to give more than you thought you would have to. Yes he is a friend in business but that;s what friends in busness do, leverage other friends. He was probably trying to give you a compliment as a freind by asking you to shoot his product.
.
Second, even with friends always have a contract, it may be a simple one paragraph description but have something.
.
Third, if you don't have a release from all the models and since he is in business selling customized t-shirts a release from him to use the likeness of his shirts or even himself you probably should not use any of the photos as stock.
.
Fourth, if you think there is "stock" value I suggest you just give him a digital copy of whatever he wants in exchange for releases to use all of them for stock. You both win and maybe your "friendship" will be saved.

Message edited by author 2007-04-25 08:59:51.