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04/18/2007 12:10:18 PM · #51 |
Originally posted by glad2badad:
Actually, I don't think there's been any complaint from  k4ffy, who took the 'Night Shot' image being discussed. 
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Thanks for noticing that I'm not the one complaining :). Like I said in the second post on this thread, I just happend to take this shot while in London, so i entered it. Also, its my personal best so far so I'm happy.
Message edited by author 2007-04-18 12:13:10. |
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04/18/2007 12:16:07 PM · #52 |
Originally posted by Beautiful-Joe:
I'm pretty sure everyone knows in the back of their mind that this person was making a futile attempt at ribboning using the location of someone else's ribbon. |
I'm pretty sure you're wrong. I'm VERY sure you shouldn't be making assumptions about others without facts to back it up. |
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04/18/2007 12:18:54 PM · #53 |
Well put, Gatorguy. We need to stop guessing other peoples motives and rate the images as we see them and for what they are. In the case of the image up for so much debate, a really nice image of a very famous location in London.
Originally posted by Gatorguy:
Originally posted by Beautiful-Joe:
I'm pretty sure everyone knows in the back of their mind that this person was making a futile attempt at ribboning using the location of someone else's ribbon. |
I'm pretty sure you're wrong. I'm VERY sure you shouldn't be making assumptions about others without facts to back it up. |
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04/18/2007 12:24:50 PM · #54 |
Originally posted by Artyste:
Personally, I'll "fault" a photo I'm looking at for whatever reason I feel I must due to the impact it has on me at the time of viewing. That's *my* perogative. This is a competition, and if you, the photographer, cannot find some way to get me, the voter, to be grabbed by a photo above and beyond the 100s of other photos in the challenge, that is *your* fault (as a photographer, not your as in you personally), not mine.
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I guess this is a pretty accurate summation of the way I view the voters and their inclinations. While I would not put it as baldly as this, it reflects the fact that while we may think we are legends in our own lunchtimes, other peoples opinions are likely to be different - which is their right.
I long ago came to the conclusion that this site had its own preferred styles and stereotypes and therefore to ribbon I needed to emulate or better these. As I cannot and in many ways do not want to do either I am happy when someone "gets" what I was after.
As to direct plagiarism - [shake of head] - it is not just the subject matter that is plagiarised otherwise why would so many people want to get the Joey Lawrence or kiwiness or "whoever" style? |
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04/18/2007 12:31:48 PM · #55 |
Originally posted by mk:
The point of the challenges is to enter a photo that the majority of people like better than any other photo. |
Ugh, how demoralizing. How sad it must be for all who accept this premise, yet continually fail. Praise be to my fellow masochistic twits who participate for less commercial reasons. How bland it would be without them. |
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04/18/2007 12:54:55 PM · #56 |
Originally posted by skewsme:
Originally posted by mk:
The point of the challenges is to enter a photo that the majority of people like better than any other photo. |
Ugh, how demoralizing. How sad it must be for all who accept this premise, yet continually fail. Praise be to my fellow masochistic twits who participate for less commercial reasons. How bland it would be without them. |
Perhaps I should have phrased that differently. Your personal reason for entering challenges can be whatever you want it to be. I do believe that the majority of folks who enter contests do so out of a desire to win, however commercial you may find that. That being said, I stand by the rest of my contention which is that there are no regulations for why someone likes or dislikes a photo. How bland that would be. |
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04/18/2007 01:09:45 PM · #57 |
Originally posted by mk:
Originally posted by skewsme:
Originally posted by mk:
The point of the challenges is to enter a photo that the majority of people like better than any other photo. |
Ugh, how demoralizing. How sad it must be for all who accept this premise, yet continually fail. Praise be to my fellow masochistic twits who participate for less commercial reasons. How bland it would be without them. |
Perhaps I should have phrased that differently. Your personal reason for entering challenges can be whatever you want it to be. I do believe that the majority of folks who enter contests do so out of a desire to win, however commercial you may find that. That being said, I stand by the rest of my contention which is that there are no regulations for why someone likes or dislikes a photo. How bland that would be. |
So what exactly do you win on this site? A virtual ribbon. I think photographers enter photos on this site to learn to be better photographers. You make it sound like there's a big prize to be won when the real prize is knowledge. And you can't put a price on that. Maybe you see it as people just entering pictures but I see it as a photographer honing his or her skills and making better photographs. As someone on site council, I'm really surprised at your attitude.
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04/18/2007 01:19:47 PM · #58 |
Originally posted by Buckeye_Fan:
So what exactly do you win on this site? A virtual ribbon. I think photographers enter photos on this site to learn to be better photographers. You make it sound like there's a big prize to be won when the real prize is knowledge. And you can't put a price on that. Maybe you see it as people just entering pictures but I see it as a photographer honing his or her skills and making better photographs. As someone on site council, I'm really surprised at your attitude. |
At no point have I said that there's no educational value to this site. But if it's only about learning and not at all about competing, why do we bother having contests? Why do we vote? We might as well just all have personal galleries where we can comment and backpat. Yes, there is a great deal of learning involved in the site but people like to throw that out there like it's the sole purpose and it's not. There is still competition and there are still people who want to win or else we wouldn't have threads full of people complaining about the scores they got.
What exactly is surprising about my attitude? I shouldn't feel that voters should be allowed to vote based on their personal opinions? I shouldn't feel that it's unnecessary to publicly scorn those who do and are willing to share why, especially amidst a million threads complaining about those "chickenshit voters" who don't leave comments? I should just let a select few dictate the "proper" way to vote? I'm sorry if being on SC suddenly means that's how I should feel because I don't. |
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04/18/2007 02:02:22 PM · #59 |
I have been thinking about this more. How about an analogy that may help those that don't understand why the second occurance doesn't quite do so well, or is not so memorable
Quiz
Who was the first US astronaut into space? That should be pretty easy to answer...
Who was the second?
Get the idea...
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04/18/2007 02:03:21 PM · #60 |
You have your opinion MK and I have mine. That's what makes the world go round.
Peace,
g
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04/18/2007 02:04:49 PM · #61 |
Originally posted by Buckeye_Fan:
Originally posted by mk:
Originally posted by skewsme:
Originally posted by mk:
The point of the challenges is to enter a photo that the majority of people like better than any other photo. |
Ugh, how demoralizing. How sad it must be for all who accept this premise, yet continually fail. Praise be to my fellow masochistic twits who participate for less commercial reasons. How bland it would be without them. |
Perhaps I should have phrased that differently. Your personal reason for entering challenges can be whatever you want it to be. I do believe that the majority of folks who enter contests do so out of a desire to win, however commercial you may find that. That being said, I stand by the rest of my contention which is that there are no regulations for why someone likes or dislikes a photo. How bland that would be. |
So what exactly do you win on this site? A virtual ribbon. I think photographers enter photos on this site to learn to be better photographers. You make it sound like there's a big prize to be won when the real prize is knowledge. And you can't put a price on that. Maybe you see it as people just entering pictures but I see it as a photographer honing his or her skills and making better photographs. As someone on site council, I'm really surprised at your attitude. |
I'm sure that there are as many reasons for entering a challenge as there are entrants. Some may enter to learn. Some may enter to win a virtual ribbon. Some might enter just out of habit. You are making all sorts of arrogant assumptions when you say that people enter challenges to learn. That may be your motivation, but it's certainly not universal. If the knowledge you personally gain from entering challenges is adequate for you, that's great. Be happy with that, but don't project your motivation and desires onto others.
As for voting, a vote is a reflection of the voter's personal opinion. It has nothing to do with you, your opinion, your thoughts or your values, or those of anyone else. It certainly doesn't take into consideration how you, or anyone else, feel a voter should vote.
If you can't deal with that personally, perhaps you should put your photos up on a non-competitive site like PBase and just solicit comments. |
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04/18/2007 02:07:01 PM · #62 |
Originally posted by pccjrose:
I have been thinking about this more. How about an analogy that may help those that don't understand why the second occurance doesn't quite do so well, or is not so memorable
Quiz
Who was the first US astronaut into space? That should be pretty easy to answer...
Who was the second?
Get the idea... |
Scott Carpenter.
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04/18/2007 02:08:25 PM · #63 |
Originally posted by pccjrose:
I have been thinking about this more. How about an analogy that may help those that don't understand why the second occurance doesn't quite do so well, or is not so memorable
Quiz
Who was the first US astronaut into space? That should be pretty easy to answer...
Who was the second?
Get the idea... |
hmmm...kind of like saying the person that does something first, has done it best and anyone doing the same thing shouldn't? Kind of like saying someone who sets the world record in the Boston Marathon is the only one to hold that record, even though they run it year, after year, after year.....
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04/18/2007 02:09:56 PM · #64 |
Originally posted by KarenNfld:
... I thought we were supposed to vote on technical merit and how well it fit the challenge.... |
We are? |
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04/18/2007 02:13:06 PM · #65 |
I am not saying that those that come after are not as good or better than the first, but it is now a comparison. Once the 'wow' factor of the first is out there, it is hard to top it and someone needs to find that new thing to bring to the table.
My comment on coming second was not my opinion, but was my observation on why those images similar to others often aren't scored as highly.
Originally posted by Buckeye_Fan:
Originally posted by pccjrose:
I have been thinking about this more. How about an analogy that may help those that don't understand why the second occurance doesn't quite do so well, or is not so memorable
Quiz
Who was the first US astronaut into space? That should be pretty easy to answer...
Who was the second?
Get the idea... |
hmmm...kind of like saying the person that does something first, has done it best and anyone doing the same thing shouldn't? Kind of like saying someone who sets the world record in the Boston Marathon is the only one to hold that record, even though they run it year, after year, after year..... |
Message edited by author 2007-04-18 14:14:40. |
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04/18/2007 02:14:58 PM · #66 |
Originally posted by zeuszen:
Originally posted by KarenNfld:
... I thought we were supposed to vote on technical merit and how well it fit the challenge.... |
We are? |
That's news to me too. |
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04/18/2007 02:19:21 PM · #67 |
Originally posted by Spazmo99:
Originally posted by zeuszen:
Originally posted by KarenNfld:
... I thought we were supposed to vote on technical merit and how well it fit the challenge.... |
We are? |
That's news to me too. |
Voting Rules - FYI for anyone that hasn't read these in a while. :) |
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04/18/2007 02:19:39 PM · #68 |
Originally posted by Spazmo99:
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I'm sure that there are as many reasons for entering a challenge as there are entrants. Some may enter to learn. Some may enter to win a virtual ribbon. Some might enter just out of habit. You are making all sorts of arrogant assumptions when you say that people enter challenges to learn. That may be your motivation, but it's certainly not universal. If the knowledge you personally gain from entering challenges is adequate for you, that's great. Be happy with that, but don't project your motivation and desires onto others.
[/quote]
I'm not being arrogant in any sense of the word. When you enter challenges, you are learning by default whether that was your intention or not. If you do badly on a challenge, don't you make adjustments and try again? If you do it better the next time, then you have LEARNED how to do it better. I'm not projecting my motivations and desires on anyone. Just voicing my opinion.
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04/18/2007 02:31:30 PM · #69 |
Originally posted by glad2badad:
Originally posted by Spazmo99:
Originally posted by zeuszen:
Originally posted by KarenNfld:
... I thought we were supposed to vote on technical merit and how well it fit the challenge.... |
We are? |
That's news to me too. |
Voting Rules - FYI for anyone that hasn't read these in a while. :) |
I don't see any mention of basing a vote on technical merit or meeting the challenge. There's nothing that says those can't be considered, so if you want to do so, more power to you. |
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04/18/2007 02:38:06 PM · #70 |
Originally posted by Buckeye_Fan:
Originally posted by Spazmo99:
I'm sure that there are as many reasons for entering a challenge as there are entrants. Some may enter to learn. Some may enter to win a virtual ribbon. Some might enter just out of habit. You are making all sorts of arrogant assumptions when you say that people enter challenges to learn. That may be your motivation, but it's certainly not universal. If the knowledge you personally gain from entering challenges is adequate for you, that's great. Be happy with that, but don't project your motivation and desires onto others.
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I'm not being arrogant in any sense of the word. When you enter challenges, you are learning by default whether that was your intention or not. If you do badly on a challenge, don't you make adjustments and try again? If you do it better the next time, then you have LEARNED how to do it better. I'm not projecting my motivations and desires on anyone. Just voicing my opinion. |
Originally posted by Buckeye_Fan:
I think photographers enter photos on this site to learn to be better photographers. |
With this statement, you place the motivation of all photographers in line with your own. That's arrogance; assuming that all are motivated as you are. While it may be true that all photographers who enter do learn something from their own entry, I highly doubt that learning is the true motivation of all photographers who enter.
Message edited by author 2007-04-18 14:39:15. |
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04/18/2007 02:42:59 PM · #71 |
Originally posted by Spazmo99:
Originally posted by glad2badad:
Originally posted by Spazmo99:
Originally posted by zeuszen:
Originally posted by KarenNfld:
... I thought we were supposed to vote on technical merit and how well it fit the challenge.... |
We are? |
That's news to me too. |
Voting Rules - FYI for anyone that hasn't read these in a while. :) |
I don't see any mention of basing a vote on technical merit or meeting the challenge. There's nothing that says those can't be considered, so if you want to do so, more power to you. |
Read them a little closer. :P |
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04/18/2007 02:47:51 PM · #72 |
Originally posted by debitipton:
Originally posted by KarenNfld:
But those comments I mentioned said that they were voting it down because it wasn't original..... |
Just for the irony perspective -- two of the voters complaining about the lack of originality had shots of the Lincoln Memorial. ;-) |
I think I'm one of the people you're talking about (I voted this a 6, for what that's worth, AND I explained why I didn't think it was as good).
On the subject of my entering "the Lincoln Memorial," my shot is hardly the usual presentation. What's relevant to this discussion is that my original idea got me two negative comments because people didn't like how I'd changed the norm.
In other words, sometimes originality counts against you.
However, I'm much happier for having those comments because it helps me understand that my approach didn't have universal appeal.
Now, like on every challenge, I put the positive comments up against the negative, and decide what to consider in the future. Figuring out how to absorb the comments is also part of the game. :)
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04/18/2007 02:59:22 PM · #73 |
Originally posted by glad2badad:
Originally posted by Spazmo99:
Originally posted by glad2badad:
Originally posted by Spazmo99:
Originally posted by zeuszen:
Originally posted by KarenNfld:
... I thought we were supposed to vote on technical merit and how well it fit the challenge.... |
We are? |
That's news to me too. |
Voting Rules - FYI for anyone that hasn't read these in a while. :) |
I don't see any mention of basing a vote on technical merit or meeting the challenge. There's nothing that says those can't be considered, so if you want to do so, more power to you. |
Read them a little closer. :P |
There's nothing in the "You Must" or the "You May Not" sections. Everything else is just recommendation. |
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04/18/2007 03:13:55 PM · #74 |
Originally posted by Spazmo99:
Originally posted by Buckeye_Fan:
Originally posted by Spazmo99:
I'm sure that there are as many reasons for entering a challenge as there are entrants. Some may enter to learn. Some may enter to win a virtual ribbon. Some might enter just out of habit. You are making all sorts of arrogant assumptions when you say that people enter challenges to learn. That may be your motivation, but it's certainly not universal. If the knowledge you personally gain from entering challenges is adequate for you, that's great. Be happy with that, but don't project your motivation and desires onto others.
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I'm not being arrogant in any sense of the word. When you enter challenges, you are learning by default whether that was your intention or not. If you do badly on a challenge, don't you make adjustments and try again? If you do it better the next time, then you have LEARNED how to do it better. I'm not projecting my motivations and desires on anyone. Just voicing my opinion. |
Originally posted by Buckeye_Fan:
I think photographers enter photos on this site to learn to be better photographers. |
With this statement, you place the motivation of all photographers in line with your own. That's arrogance; assuming that all are motivated as you are. While it may be true that all photographers who enter do learn something from their own entry, I highly doubt that learning is the true motivation of all photographers who enter. |
No No No....if you read it it says "I think" that opens the door for me being possibly wrong. I didn't say it was the only motivation. Its not arrogance, its an opinion.
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04/18/2007 04:02:00 PM · #75 |
Originally posted by Buckeye_Fan:
Originally posted by Spazmo99:
Originally posted by Buckeye_Fan:
Originally posted by Spazmo99:
I'm sure that there are as many reasons for entering a challenge as there are entrants. Some may enter to learn. Some may enter to win a virtual ribbon. Some might enter just out of habit. You are making all sorts of arrogant assumptions when you say that people enter challenges to learn. That may be your motivation, but it's certainly not universal. If the knowledge you personally gain from entering challenges is adequate for you, that's great. Be happy with that, but don't project your motivation and desires onto others.
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I'm not being arrogant in any sense of the word. When you enter challenges, you are learning by default whether that was your intention or not. If you do badly on a challenge, don't you make adjustments and try again? If you do it better the next time, then you have LEARNED how to do it better. I'm not projecting my motivations and desires on anyone. Just voicing my opinion. |
Originally posted by Buckeye_Fan:
I think photographers enter photos on this site to learn to be better photographers. |
With this statement, you place the motivation of all photographers in line with your own. That's arrogance; assuming that all are motivated as you are. While it may be true that all photographers who enter do learn something from their own entry, I highly doubt that learning is the true motivation of all photographers who enter. |
No No No....if you read it it says "I think" that opens the door for me being possibly wrong. I didn't say it was the only motivation. Its not arrogance, its an opinion. |
OK, it's an arrogant opinion. |
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