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04/18/2007 01:54:48 PM · #376 |
Originally posted by hipychik:
I'm still alive! |
awesome!
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04/18/2007 01:55:32 PM · #377 |
I went to my frist DPC gtg Sunday, What a blast. Got to meet and great people and spent the day shooting with them. Hope we can do another one later this year.
And i took a insect shot that is right now my second highest score, hope it holds
Insects II
Votes: 124
Views: 191
Avg Vote: 5.5968
Comments: 6
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04/18/2007 02:18:03 PM · #378 |
Originally posted by k4ffy:
any chance the OOFers are still alive?? i'm so bad at being punctual at submitting photos, but i just got my personal best (though it seems to be a big of a controversial photograph) :) |
Great shot, helluva score, ignore the controversy - you din't do nuthin' wrong - you took a great shot! |
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04/18/2007 02:18:52 PM · #379 |
Originally posted by griz210:
I went to my frist DPC gtg Sunday |
Do tell more! Who did you meet? Where did you go?? Inquiring minds wanna know! (And good going on the insect shot!) |
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04/18/2007 03:40:40 PM · #380 |
I'd like to try to separate what I'm hearing into different things. I'm going to ask a bunch of questions because I truly don't know what you mean, Kelli. Don't worry, I'm not upset - keep reminding yourself of that. But I do need to ask some questions to probe so I better understand.
I also don't think we're monolithic here on TS, not even close. So these questions apply to everyone, and everyone may have different answers.
1) Scoring well all by itself. That is, assume attitudes remain the same and no one gets arrogant. Is the simple fact of scoring well on a regular basis enough reason to ask people to leave TS (which is pretty much what happened with Georgio a few months ago)? Does a TSer scoring well make you feel badly about your own scores? I would never want anyone to be upset because I did well. In fact, I haven't posted my joy at some scores and other things specifically because I worried about that. At the same time, I haven't felt good that I couldn't share my happiness with some of the best people I've met on DPC.
2) Attitude about scoring well. I agree that no one should get upset when their shot doesn't attain a specific score. But I disagree that no one should be allowed to get disappointed that their entry didn't resonate with people. To me, TS is a safe place to vent and commiserate at exactly those times. It's also a safe place to get honest feedback from friends about why something didn't do well. Not just "oh, ignore those people," but also specific suggestions for improvement.
3) Who here is suddenly "getting routine 6s" and who complained because their shot didn't get a 6? Maybe I'm missing something. And what does "routine" mean? For example, I've had one 6+ shot a month for 3 months.
I can't believe I have to phrase it this way, but I admit it: I like getting high scores. I hardly do it routinely, but in my competition with myself, it's a very good benchmark. So yes, I'm going to get excited when I finally replace one of my top 5 that I've been looking at in my profile for 4-5 months. Yes, I'm going to get excited when my first attempt at a multiple exposure scores well (see my night shot entry). Yes, I'm going to be disappointed when a shot I love doesn't score well. And yes, if I ever manage to have 10 straight challenges above the 50th percentile, I'm going to be very happy.
At the same time, I'm going to appreciate off-the-wall shots that appeal to me. For example, I think Melethia's Ode to Joy is one of the best I've ever see, on any subject, by anyone.
Maybe I've got the whole Team Suck attitude wrong, but I thought we had room for many approaches, including wanting to score well at DPC. I don't think we all disdain high scores, nor do I think we should. If I'm wrong about that, then I'm in the wrong place. The very thought makes me quite sad, because I don't know another group like this.
Message edited by author 2007-04-18 15:44:17.
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04/18/2007 03:53:09 PM · #381 |
sneaking in from work to put in my 2 cents.
First of all, most of the 6's are not part of a consistent pattern of high-scoring. There are a lot of people in Team Suck. Some of these people do get 6s occassionally, because by some fluke the DPC voters recognize the beauty of a particular shot. Nothing wrong with that.
Second of all, Team Suck doesn't want anyone to leave. Team Suck is a big pair of huggy arms. But sometimes, a person will want to leave Team Suck. That person should feel totally comfortable about that. We will give that person a big hug good-bye. And that person is always welcome to visit.  Giorgio transitioned very smoothly and easily out of Team Suck. That's how it should be for everyone.
As far as scores being posted, it's not that we're all scoring high, it's that people are more prone to post their high scores. There's still plenty of suck here, folks! My hair that I predicted high 5s for is currently at high 4s. I do like to get high scores, but I will not follow a formula to do so. That means every photo is a risk. Some people enjoy the thrill of pure competition, seeing how high a score they can get by any means necessary, working away at it with every challenge. Such people might be better off in the WPL.
Two people (whom I don't think Kelli was thinking of at all) who sort of accused themselves knowingly and otherwise are Melethia and silverfoxx. To me these are both exemplars of Team Suck. Melethia does have some high-scoring images and a respectable average, but most of the time she has no idea what her image will score, and she is driven to certain types of images from an inner impulse that has nothing to do with scores. And speaking of inner impulses, silverfoxx is driven by her art. She simply makes excellent, skillful, brilliant photos and recently DPC has been acknowledging them with high scores, but don't get the cause and effect mixed up! silverfoxx follows her own dream, and THAT is the Team Suck spirit, not low scores. Low scores are simply something we commisserate with each other about, because we get them so often.
In sum, I agree with everybody and that's why everybody likes me. Or perhaps the converse. |
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04/18/2007 04:20:55 PM · #382 |
Nice post Don. It made me feel a little better. You did a great job with that. There are many times that I get a little depressed about constantly bombing. I only have one 6 out of approx 45 challenges. I didn't enter anything last week because I just didn't feel like it. I entered Landscape and my score is falling like a rock. I never look at the score but my "average vote received" is going south. It's funny too because I have 8 comments and 6 of them are really praising it.
It's true that everyone wants to get high scores and nobody wants to bomb. I think the people in TS that want to celebrate the high scores should be able to. They've earned it! But the people that bomb have the right to whine a little. I know nobody likes a whiner but just like the 6's have earned the right to celebrate, the low scorers have earned the right to whine. I try not to but sometimes I do. I'm not saying the wonderful people in TS would complain because I whined but I was just reiterating my feeling.
The one thing that irritates me though is that I have seen comments from people that have scored VERY high lately and it's like they're an expert now. I don't think that anyone in DPC is a true expert being that this is such a subjective art. I know I'm not. I can tell someone what I do and don't like about a shot but that doesn't make me an expert. If I suddenly got a bunch of 6's, I wouldn't be any better at judging photo's then I am now.
I guess that's all for now but my photo is bombing and I'm whining. |
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04/18/2007 04:32:20 PM · #383 |
It's great to read the thoughtful posts in this discussion of suck vs. scores. I feel that if you're really challenging yourself, you can't possibly score above 6 all the time. Those stinging 4-scores are a sort of badge of honor. After you learn how to take a technically good shot, the most difficult and noble thing you can do is to spur viewers to stop and wonder (even if it's only 'wtf' ;-) Aim for a bimodal histogram, garner votes at both extremes - elicit both love and disdain with the same shot. Or, plant something of subtle beauty for the sensitive minority. Granted, it's exhausting and disheartening to swim against the current all the time, but heck, it should be attempted at least every once in a while.
A recent statement (from another thread) is the epitome of an anti-suck, art-poisonous attitude, imo: "The point of the challenges is to enter a photo that the majority of people like better than any other photo." Man, if you buy that, team suck is so the wrong place for you!
(Disclaimer: I'm quoting the statement because the wording is so 'perfect', but I must note that its original author no longer stands by it completely.)
And something a little more positive - Melethia and Xian - this one's for you: "Never doubt that a small group of thoughtful, committed citizens can change the world. Indeed, it is the only thing that ever has." - Margaret Mead |
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04/18/2007 05:36:03 PM · #384 |
Hey guys!
To interrupt the suck vs. scores discussion for a bit:
For anyone who hasn't met me - I'm Jelena, I'm newish to DPC (I've been around properly since about January), and having gotten well and truly hooked, I now find myself mysteriously drawn towards Team Suck headquarters.
To explain why, lets link it to the suck vs. scores discussion:
I do like getting high scores. The basis for this is that achieving a high score is closely correlated with a decent level of technical knowledge - a proficiency in the craft of photography, if you will. I've been learning about lighting, composition, DOF, post-processing, all sorts of things I'd never even considered before coming to DPC, and as a result, my scores have been getting higher - I'm not making the same mistakes that I would've made 3 months ago. It's a nice acknowledgement of skill.
However, I think technical skill is a tool, and what I actually find fascinating about photography is how original, creative, striking, inspiring you can be with it. There's loads of possibilities you can play with, depending on your approach to it, you can turn it into genuine art and a means of self-expression, rather than just being technically proficient. And as far as I can tell, Team Suck is the one group on DPC that really supports people in experimenting, expressing themselves, and looking for beauty and meaning in subtle, unconventional ways, rather than just aiming for the high scores.
So, yeah, I want to join you guys. Can I, can I, can I? :)
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04/18/2007 05:47:19 PM · #385 |
you sound like a great candidate for the OOFers ;)
Originally posted by purpleflutterby13:
Hey guys!
To interrupt the suck vs. scores discussion for a bit:
For anyone who hasn't met me - I'm Jelena, I'm newish to DPC (I've been around properly since about January), and having gotten well and truly hooked, I now find myself mysteriously drawn towards Team Suck headquarters.
To explain why, lets link it to the suck vs. scores discussion:
I do like getting high scores. The basis for this is that achieving a high score is closely correlated with a decent level of technical knowledge - a proficiency in the craft of photography, if you will. I've been learning about lighting, composition, DOF, post-processing, all sorts of things I'd never even considered before coming to DPC, and as a result, my scores have been getting higher - I'm not making the same mistakes that I would've made 3 months ago. It's a nice acknowledgement of skill.
However, I think technical skill is a tool, and what I actually find fascinating about photography is how original, creative, striking, inspiring you can be with it. There's loads of possibilities you can play with, depending on your approach to it, you can turn it into genuine art and a means of self-expression, rather than just being technically proficient. And as far as I can tell, Team Suck is the one group on DPC that really supports people in experimenting, expressing themselves, and looking for beauty and meaning in subtle, unconventional ways, rather than just aiming for the high scores.
So, yeah, I want to join you guys. Can I, can I, can I? :) |
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04/18/2007 06:10:27 PM · #386 |
| Are there codes, secret handshakes, gruelling initiation ceremonies, anything like that? :) |
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04/18/2007 06:11:45 PM · #387 |
Originally posted by purpleflutterby13:
Are there codes, secret handshakes, gruelling initiation ceremonies, anything like that? :) |
Well... only since you mentioned it. |
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04/18/2007 06:15:00 PM · #388 |
Originally posted by jaysonmc:
Originally posted by purpleflutterby13:
Are there codes, secret handshakes, gruelling initiation ceremonies, anything like that? :) |
Well... only since you mentioned it. |
Oops. |
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04/18/2007 06:23:04 PM · #389 |
Originally posted by purpleflutterby13:
Originally posted by jaysonmc:
Originally posted by purpleflutterby13:
Are there codes, secret handshakes, gruelling initiation ceremonies, anything like that? :) |
Well... only since you mentioned it. |
Oops. |
You will be receiving secret instructions soon. Be sure to read them before they self-destruct. |
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04/18/2007 06:28:03 PM · #390 |
xianart - please add LaMas and Gnarf to the Golden Brigade. please put k4ffy back in the OOFers. I know that puts it over 7, but who cares, really?
meyers - don't change the results! these changes will apply to the next round of results.
Thanks, you two! |
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04/18/2007 06:28:04 PM · #391 |
ooh I suck and I want to participate in the secret handshake ritual. Can I join?
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04/18/2007 06:30:13 PM · #392 |
Originally posted by Kelli:
Originally posted by Melethia:
Hmmm.... if Team Suck members are regularly scoring in the 6's, do they really suck anymore? Perhaps we need a Team Suck Less. Or Team Suck Lite, to which all the regular 6-scorers graduate. :-) |
Originally posted by xianart:
nah. we'll just be the ironically named team suck.
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Actually I agree with Deb. This was the one place I felt I could come to with my sucky scores and still be happy not having to compare to everyone else. Now, when i look at the thread, it seems to be... Hey, got another +6 here, hey we're great. I'm happy for you all. But, I seem to have lost my happy place. Don't take me wrong please. Maybe I'm just in a crappy mood. But this just doesn't feel like team suck anymore. I feel like I don't fit in anymore. I really do think that after people start achieving 6's on a regular basis they should move on (always welcome to stop in of course) and make room for someone else. Then there are those of us who are never going to be 6 contenders who can remain happy. |
Sorry Deb and Kelli but I don't agree, we all say we really don't care about the scores in our photographs and I do agree with that but I will go one further and say I don't care about the score in other Team Members either. Sure I would like to score higher with some shots but one in particular I entered in the last free study was actually an experiment. I really don't like the shot that well and would give it a 5 at best if I were voting on it, yet it turned out to be my highest scoreing shot to date, which is nice I suppose but it doesn't mean much to me because I really don't like it that well. The experiment was to take a subject I had already shot before and knew would be popular, then apply a few of the things style wise that seem to do well here on a shot that I really don't much care for and see what happened. I guess my point is I am not going to enter anymore pic's on here that I don't really like just to get a better score, it's no fun, and I think most of the Team Suck memebers agree because I see some amazing talent on this team regardless of whether there aver. is low or above 6. Team Suck to me is all about the people, before I joined I would PM other people on the site some were very helpful and seemed to not mind my questions for example Joey Lawrence has always been more than willing to anwser questions, others...well lets just say there have been a number that just don't anwser back or seem annoyed by the question, Team Suck on the other hand has been VERY VERY helpful to me and very quick to point out shots that they like and comment on them, Jeb made my day when when told me my Last Rites shot was awesome because he has some really really nice shots in my opinian and thats what it's all about here in team suck, attitude, support and helping each other out. I for one hope we all stay in and welcome all with similar attitudes. Hope I didn't upset anyone but I think we are Team Suck because we ROCK as people not because we suck at challenge scores...Just my thoughts.
Jack
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04/18/2007 06:33:36 PM · #393 |
Hi Color, Purple...wait wasn't that a movie??
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04/18/2007 06:35:52 PM · #394 |
A movie that was underappreciated by the Academy Awards even.
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04/18/2007 06:38:28 PM · #395 |
Originally posted by jackal9:
Hi Color, Purple...wait wasn't that a movie?? |
A very depressing one, I believe. (contrary to the title) |
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04/18/2007 06:53:11 PM · #396 |
Originally posted by purpleflutterby13:
Originally posted by jackal9:
Hi Color, Purple...wait wasn't that a movie?? |
A very depressing one, I believe. (contrary to the title) |
I wouldn't know I've never seen it, Welcome to Team Suck!!
Jack
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04/18/2007 06:53:35 PM · #397 |
Originally posted by purpleflutterby13:
Originally posted by jackal9:
Hi Color, Purple...wait wasn't that a movie?? |
A very depressing one, I believe. (contrary to the title) |
but it was the movie that brought us Oprah.
colorcarnival, you have been accepted into the admission process of Team Suck. You and purple will be receiving instructions shortly. |
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04/18/2007 06:58:48 PM · #398 |
Sweet - just be sure to send pictures of the secret handshake because I don't read directions well :p
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04/18/2007 07:02:42 PM · #399 |
Originally posted by posthumous:
xianart - please add LaMas and Gnarf to the Golden Brigade. please put k4ffy back in the OOFers. I know that puts it over 7, but who cares, really?
meyers - don't change the results! these changes will apply to the next round of results.
Thanks, you two! |
I'll look up the new teams when I put up the results for the next challenge.
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04/18/2007 07:14:45 PM · #400 |
hokay - team lists are updated on the 1st post of this thread!
the man is home! woohoo! he spent the evening in london last night and rode on the eye, and saw spamalot. gah! i'm so jealous. but at least he brought me a cd of the spamalot soundtrack.
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