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04/16/2007 06:58:27 PM · #51 |
Skip - I hope your neighbor reaches her son! They have to be quite frantic, as I am sure many parents of students there are now.
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04/16/2007 07:14:37 PM · #52 |
Originally posted by RainMotorsports:
We have concealed carry in maryland but you pretty much have to have been shot at or shot, |
Originally posted by RainMotorsports:
* Personal Protection; must be documented evidence of recent threats and/or assaults, supported by police reports and/or notarized statements. |
Threats or assaults not necessarily shot at or shot.
But either way it is still very hard to get a permit in Maryland.
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04/16/2007 07:20:16 PM · #53 |
Well i included below
Originally posted by RainMotorsports:
On the more serious note the requirement is threat of harm or attack, notarized or on police report. |
On the same post..... dare i say something about reading documents all the way through ::Ducks:: |
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04/16/2007 07:21:34 PM · #54 |
Originally posted by RainMotorsports:
Well i included below
Originally posted by RainMotorsports:
On the more serious note the requirement is threat of harm or attack, notarized or on police report. |
On the same post..... dare i say something about reading documents all the way through ::Ducks:: |
It's cool man you can be right. I don't want to hijack this thread anymore. |
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04/16/2007 08:35:51 PM · #55 |
Originally posted by OdysseyF22:
Originally posted by marbo:
It`s very sad. And sadder still is it will happen again and again.
And nothing will be done about it. |
It is awful beyond words. And what worries me now is the backlash of paranoid "security" measures this could generate to make life difficult for all of us on campuses, without actually solving the issue. |
VT also had another "situation" a year or two ago. A hostage situation, maybe. I'm not sure what security measures were taken after that, other than a campus lock down until the perp was apprehended. Things got back to normal pretty much after that, if I remember correctly. |
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04/16/2007 09:20:34 PM · #56 |
actually, the other situation was first day of classes last fall. a jail escapee shot a couple law enforcement officers and precipitated a 2-day manhunt. the school was locked down for about 7 hours when he was sighted near the campus.
that guy's capital murder trial is scheduled to start in the next week or so.
i finally got through to my neighbor, and her son is 'ok'. he was at his apartment at the time. she said that most of his friends are accounted for, but there's still a lot of unknowns. this is just terrible. |
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04/16/2007 09:22:52 PM · #57 |
dang, was that just last fall????? wow, I thought it had been longer than that. Rough year for the Hokies, ey what?
Glad your neighbor's son is "ok." relatively speaking, I'm sure. |
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04/17/2007 10:03:50 AM · #58 |
This video is just insane, you actually hear the gunman firing inside, thoughts and prayers go out to the families and students involved.
//www.youtube.com/watch?v=6HNrBd4kKMg |
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04/17/2007 11:45:39 AM · #59 |
The reason that this happened...that is, why this gunman was able to kill 33 people without getting killed himself has nothing to do with gun laws. He did this in a gun-free school zone where law-abiding citizens are not allowed to carry guns. If they were allowed to carry guns there, this would have been stopped long before 33 innocent people were killed by this lunatic.
The people think that the police will protect them from situations like this and there is no need for guns, but this story just goes to show exactly the opposite. We do need to protect ourselves and the police, while they do try very hard, cannot be everywhere to protect us or our loved ones from the insane who are committed to bringing harm to them.
Guns do not cause violence. Guns, just like knives or bombs are a tool that sometimes get mis-used by the people who want to cause violence. We do not have gun problems here in the US. We have people problems here in the US. An armed society is a polite society.
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04/17/2007 11:55:13 AM · #60 |
i would not be comfortable knowing that everyone was "packing" and ready to take the law into their own hands.
this is an incredibly extreme situation and, yes, possibly could have been mitigated or prevented. but the thought of a large number of people carrying weapons in the event something like this happens makes me wonder how many "smaller" incidents would end up occurring instead.
that being said, this is quite a tragedy and i cannot imagine how hard it must be for the students and staff. at the dentist's office this morning, they had the tv on and the cast of the "today" show was on location on campus. *sigh* i can't help but think they would do more good by staying out of the way and letting the campus grieve and heal and investigate the situation. i don't think the presence of meredith and matt really does anything to help. it's america's love for "grief porn" at its worst. |
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04/17/2007 12:03:19 PM · #61 |
Are you saying we should not have any gun laws so we can all carry guns like in teh wild west? If someone had a gun this would have ended early? Is that really your stance?
The problem is our gun laws lack substance. Most laws just create a sense that law makers are doing somehting about the problem. If the laws were seriously intended to stop anything than why can I buy all the ammo i can afford from numerous retailers w/o any hassle. It may be harder for me to aquire a gun legally, but I am sure I could get one illegally and then walk into a sporting goods store and fill my backpack w/ ammunition.
Why do people feel a need to own firearms to defend themselves? Is this a regular accurance? Do you need to shoot intruders and attackers on a regular basis?
This was tragic, but once this person made the decision to go forward there was no stopping. A motivated and focused person will accomplish their goal. If others had guns, maybe it would have been over or maybe more innocent people would have been killed, or maybe the police would have shot an innocent person weilding a gun.
Trained soldiers have covered their heads and cowered at the first sign of incoming fire, what makes you think regular civilians would react much better?
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04/17/2007 12:42:59 PM · #62 |
Originally posted by muckpond:
this is an incredibly extreme situation and, yes, possibly could have been mitigated or prevented. but the thought of a large number of people carrying weapons in the event something like this happens makes me wonder how many "smaller" incidents would end up occurring instead. |
Amen to that. Perhaps (and that's a big perhaps) we avoid the 33 deaths and trade them for the same amount one at a time.
We all know college students are bastions of non-impulsive behavior. I'd certainly feel safer if everybody was packing heat at the kegger on Friday night.
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04/17/2007 12:50:49 PM · #63 |
Originally posted by deapee:
The reason that this happened...that is, why this gunman was able to kill 33 people without getting killed himself has nothing to do with gun laws. He did this in a gun-free school zone where law-abiding citizens are not allowed to carry guns. If they were allowed to carry guns there, this would have been stopped long before 33 innocent people were killed by this lunatic.
The people think that the police will protect them from situations like this and there is no need for guns, but this story just goes to show exactly the opposite. We do need to protect ourselves and the police, while they do try very hard, cannot be everywhere to protect us or our loved ones from the insane who are committed to bringing harm to them.
Guns do not cause violence. Guns, just like knives or bombs are a tool that sometimes get mis-used by the people who want to cause violence. We do not have gun problems here in the US. We have people problems here in the US. An armed society is a polite society. |
Just what we need, a multigun shoot out at a university. Good idea.
Frankly, I'd prefer this guy trying this with knives instead of guns. The "Guns are the same as knives" arguement is possibly the weakest point ever made in the gun debate. Do you really think he would have taken out 32 people with a couple of knives?
I won't speak of this anymore in this thread since no one will be convinced of anything. I just couldn't let this one go by.
Peace |
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04/17/2007 12:53:49 PM · #64 |
Originally posted by scarbrd:
Do you really think he would have taken out 32 people with a couple of knives? |
Have you ever seen a Ginsu cut through a shoe and then slice tomatoes with ease? Perhaps you would reconsider your opinion if you had.
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04/17/2007 12:55:56 PM · #65 |
Originally posted by DrAchoo:
Originally posted by scarbrd:
Do you really think he would have taken out 32 people with a couple of knives? |
Have you ever seen a Ginsu cut through a shoe and then slice tomatoes with ease? Perhaps you would reconsider your opinion if you had. |
ya know, I never thought of that. You're right, I take back everything, let's pass out guns with student IDs. That'll even things out! |
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04/17/2007 01:01:03 PM · #66 |
I think what deapee was saying is that they are a tool: knife, gun, bomb. The bomb can do more damage than the gun but in this thought are a tool just the same. Don't think he was saying they were just like a knife or the same danger factor.
At least that's what I got from what he said...even though it might be a bit of an extreme.
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04/17/2007 01:03:21 PM · #67 |
skip, I'm glad your neighbors' son is ok... You crossed my mind as soon as I heard this.
I was just reading on msnbc some of the profiles. There was a 76yr old lecturer, who blocked the door with his body saving some time for his students to jump from the window....
Amazing....such sacrafice, such tragedy.
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04/17/2007 01:06:13 PM · #68 |
Originally posted by DrAchoo:
Originally posted by scarbrd:
Do you really think he would have taken out 32 people with a couple of knives? |
Have you ever seen a Ginsu cut through a shoe and then slice tomatoes with ease? Perhaps you would reconsider your opinion if you had. |
Don't know about you Doc, but I would much rather someone attack me with a knife than a gun... At least one can attempt to parry a knife thrust or offer some form of resistance... which is rather difficult when firearms are involved.
There exist a variety of articles even within a school setting I am certain individuals could use to both defend themselves and counter-attack an assailant.
Given a choice, send me the fellow with the knife... I just might stand a chance, particularly if 31 of my friends and acquaintances are in the same room.
Ray |
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04/17/2007 01:09:16 PM · #69 |
Originally posted by RayEthier:
Originally posted by DrAchoo:
Originally posted by scarbrd:
Do you really think he would have taken out 32 people with a couple of knives? |
Have you ever seen a Ginsu cut through a shoe and then slice tomatoes with ease? Perhaps you would reconsider your opinion if you had. |
Don't know about you Doc, but I would much rather someone attack me with a knife than a gun... At least one can attempt to parry a knife thrust or offer some form of resistance... which is rather difficult when firearms are involved.
There exist a variety of articles even within a school setting I am certain individuals could use to both defend themselves and counter-attack an assailant.
Given a choice, send me the fellow with the knife... I just might stand a chance, particularly if 31 of my friends and acquaintances are in the same room.
Ray |
or better yet, you can RUN from a knife a lot easier than you can from bullets. |
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04/17/2007 01:19:20 PM · #70 |
Originally posted by RayEthier:
Don't know about you Doc, but I would much rather someone attack me with a knife than a gun... At least one can attempt to parry a knife thrust or offer some form of resistance... which is rather difficult when firearms are involved. |
With proper training, martial artists can catch bullets in their hands. I've seen a number of movies which support this assertion.
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04/17/2007 01:24:54 PM · #71 |
Originally posted by DrAchoo:
Originally posted by RayEthier:
Don't know about you Doc, but I would much rather someone attack me with a knife than a gun... At least one can attempt to parry a knife thrust or offer some form of resistance... which is rather difficult when firearms are involved. |
With proper training, martial artists can catch bullets in their hands. I've seen a number of movies which support this assertion. |
I also remember reading somewhere strange but true fact/statistic that 2 people in a fight, one with a gun and one with a knife, the one with the knife had the highest percetage to win/live and it was by a huge amount.
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04/17/2007 01:32:01 PM · #72 |
Originally posted by RayEthier:
[Don't know about you Doc, but I would much rather someone attack me with a knife than a gun... At least one can attempt to parry a knife thrust or offer some form of resistance... which is rather difficult when firearms are involved. |
Well your death could also be slower and more painful if its messy due to resistance.
On the upside most punks cant properly throw a knife so if you have some distance from your attacker you may in many situations atdn a much better chance then against a gun. |
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04/17/2007 01:32:24 PM · #73 |
Here are some of my random thoughts about this incident. First and foremost, my heart goes out to everyone involved. I can remember when I was in college in a small town in 1986, and there was a stabbing death of a student a few blocks off campus. This is all we talked about for months. I can just imagine the impact something like this must be having.
I can't help but wonder how many millions of dollars will be needlessly spent on security as a result of this incident. I know it's hard to accept, but no real amount of money spent on security would have stopped this from happening. It may have changed the venue from the classroom to the parking lot, for example, but this guy was going to go berzerk and he was going to kill people somewhere.
Nowadays, especially after 9/11, we've gone nuts as a society in an effort to beef up security as a feel-good effort. It's ridiculous. My daughter goes to a school that was just built in 2004 just down the road from us. They have these big heavy doors that are always locked, and you have to be "buzzed" into the building.
Meanwhile, I've seen kids holding the doors open at other parts of the building, and I guarantee that even teachers would likely just let someone in if the person wasn't obviously standing there with a machete or something. If I really wanted to get in there, it would take me probably less than 15 minutes to get in, because the "feel good security" is not going to make up for common sense errors that will be made elsewhere.
Someone who wants to kill or harm people can do so in so many ways that it's simply impossible to stop. Here in Pittsburgh, we've had recent instances where idiots have been throwing rocks at vehicles on a heavily traveled road. What security could stop that activity along every highway?
What security could have gone into place to thwart the Washington DC snipers a few years ago?
But I'm sure we'll be spending millions or billions of dollars now so we can all feel good about security in colleges.
My other observation is how many lawsuits are going to be filed (and won) against the school because they didn't do enough to prevent the second series of shootings after the first one. No, people won't even consider that we should be placing all of the blame on Cho Seung-Hui... the guy is dead! We have to sue somebody! So they'll sue the school, the manufacturers of the guns, the designer of the doors Seung-Hui was able to push open, and the manufacturer of the desk because they weren't strong enough to hold the door shut. |
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04/17/2007 01:33:08 PM · #74 |
My thought is that it's a lot easier to bum rush a guy with a knife.
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04/17/2007 01:39:55 PM · #75 |
Originally posted by DrAchoo:
Originally posted by RayEthier:
Don't know about you Doc, but I would much rather someone attack me with a knife than a gun... At least one can attempt to parry a knife thrust or offer some form of resistance... which is rather difficult when firearms are involved. |
With proper training, martial artists can catch bullets in their hands. I've seen a number of movies which support this assertion. |
LOL Doc... methinks I might have seen the same movies. :O)
Ray |
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