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04/12/2007 10:19:51 AM · #1 |
My entry was disqualified from the night shot challenge. First off, I don't want to whine about it and say I'm shocked that it was DQ'd and shouldn't have been. I respect the call site council made. I just wanted to give anyone else that may have considered an entry like this a heads up that it's not legal in basic.
I shot a 25 sec exposure at night, and then used CS2 to generate 5 .tiff files. One at -3, -1.5, 0, +1.5, and +3 exposure. Then the .tiff files were opened in Photomatix, tone mapped, and sent to CS2 for some final adjustment layers.
The rule I violated was:
"use only Adjustment Layers (or their equivalent). An Adjustment Layer is a special type of layer containing no image data that lets you experiment with color and tonal adjustments without permanently modifying the pixels. Adjustment Layers must be applied in Normal mode."
In the disqualification notice, they quoted that rule and added this to the end of it:
"Layers include multiple exposures of the same RAW file."
To some of you this may seem straightforward and obvious that using photomatix to combine exposures was the same thing as layering exposures of the image itself. Not knowing how photomatix works, I really didn't know what it was doing, whether it was working with layers of the same image, taking parts of each image and combining them, etc. With the new craze of photomatix entries, maybe the basic rules should be appended to mention that Photomatix is a violation. |
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04/12/2007 10:21:44 AM · #2 |
| A question. Were all 5 tiffs from a single raw file (assuming the exposure was a single raw file)? |
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04/12/2007 10:22:11 AM · #3 |
| Yes, all .tiff files were from a single raw file. |
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04/12/2007 10:23:17 AM · #4 |
| You should just open the image directly in Photomatix if you want to utilize it. |
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04/12/2007 10:23:55 AM · #5 |
Originally posted by ibkc:
Yes, all .tiff files were from a single raw file. |
Yeah well that sucks. If your not sure always ask ahead of time!
Originally posted by tooohip:
You should just open the image directly in Photomatix if you want to utilize it. |
Pretty much not sure what formats u can use but I have done single jpeg HDR conversions.
Message edited by author 2007-04-12 10:24:35. |
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04/12/2007 10:24:26 AM · #6 |
| If you open the image directly in photomatix, shouldn't that still be doing the same thing. Would photomatix not take your single raw file you open and then adjust the exposure of certain areas of the image and layer them together? This is my problem, I didn't understand how photomatix works and didn't realize it was violating a rule. |
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04/12/2007 10:25:29 AM · #7 |
Originally posted by ibkc:
If you open the image directly in photomatix, shouldn't that still be doing the same thing. Would photomatix not take your single raw file you open and then adjust the exposure of certain areas of the image and layer them together? This is my problem, I didn't understand how photomatix works and didn't realize it was violating a rule. |
I don't know the details, but know it's legal as far as DPC is concerned. |
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04/12/2007 10:29:15 AM · #8 |
For tone mapping (in Photoshop CS2) is switching a JPG to 32 bit then back to 16 bit to get the Local Adaptation curve processor valid in basic editing?
Obviously with just one RAW conversion.
Message edited by author 2007-04-12 10:29:44. |
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04/12/2007 10:30:14 AM · #9 |
Originally posted by ibkc:
If you open the image directly in photomatix, shouldn't that still be doing the same thing. Would photomatix not take your single raw file you open and then adjust the exposure of certain areas of the image and layer them together? This is my problem, I didn't understand how photomatix works and didn't realize it was violating a rule. |
Allowing photomatix to split the files up internally is fine. But if you input seperate files it allows you the chance to add a file in with another object. Basicly being able to cheat.
But if you let photomatix do it, theres less a chance to cheat, and its easier for the SC to follow your processing steps and get a valid result. |
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04/12/2007 10:48:07 AM · #10 |
The last I heard, the stages of legality for Photomatix (or its CS2 equivalents) were this:
1. In basic: You may open a single file and tone map it directly (CS2 equivalent is shadow/highlight: I suspect the 16-bit to 32-bit whipsaw method would have to be legal also.)
2. In advanced: You may make variations of the single RAW exposure to generate a quasi-HDR effect and tone map that (CS2 equivalent the same, using shadow/highlight, and I am sure the 32-bit whipsaw would be legal here)
3. In expert: You may combine multiple exposures made in-camera into a single, true HDR file and work with that (ditto for CS2).
4. In minimal: none of this is allowed.
Robt.
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04/12/2007 10:54:22 AM · #11 |
| Combining files or creating a layer with any data on it is illegal in Basic Editing (even if the data came from the same source file). |
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04/12/2007 10:57:38 AM · #12 |
| Hmmm... now I'm confused. When I "open" a RAW file in Photomatix, it creates an HDR image that I then tonemap. This is not permitted in basic? I guess I'm not sure how you "open" a file in Photomatix and NOT have it generate the HDR image thing. |
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04/12/2007 11:00:01 AM · #13 |
| The OP used PS to generate separate TIFF files before he opened them in Photomatix. |
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04/12/2007 11:01:40 AM · #14 |
| Ah, so it's still OK to let Photomatix "open" the RAW, then tonemap what it generates? Just want to make sure, because I have a current entry that will have to be DQ'd if this is not the case. |
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04/12/2007 11:05:02 AM · #15 |
Originally posted by Melethia:
Hmmm... now I'm confused. When I "open" a RAW file in Photomatix, it creates an HDR image that I then tonemap. This is not permitted in basic? I guess I'm not sure how you "open" a file in Photomatix and NOT have it generate the HDR image thing. |
you are able to tonemap a single image... if you adjust the ev for the same image and make it multiple versions of the same image via tiffs and convert them into hdr its essentially using 3 seperate images - if its basic editing as Bear_Music said just use the single file coversion. The quality isnt exactly the same because you're taking the tonal range of a single image and stretching it instead of taking the tonal range from three seperate (even though from the same file) images. |
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04/12/2007 11:06:16 AM · #16 |
Originally posted by Melethia:
Ah, so it's still OK to let Photomatix "open" the RAW, then tonemap what it generates? |
This entry was validated:
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04/12/2007 11:13:37 AM · #17 |
Originally posted by scalvert:
Combining files or creating a layer with any data on it is illegal in Basic Editing (even if the data came from the same source file). |
Does this mean that, in Basic, if I were to have a file where the background (image) layer was duplicated, SOLELY for "backup" purposes (i.e. you accidently did something to the image layer like painted on it, and didn't notice to undo it right away) this would be illegal? |
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04/12/2007 11:19:05 AM · #18 |
Originally posted by klstover:
Originally posted by scalvert:
Combining files or creating a layer with any data on it is illegal in Basic Editing (even if the data came from the same source file). |
Does this mean that, in Basic, if I were to have a file where the background (image) layer was duplicated, SOLELY for "backup" purposes (i.e. you accidently did something to the image layer like painted on it, and didn't notice to undo it right away) this would be illegal? |
Creating a BACKUP layer and a WORKING layer is legal, SO LONG AS you don't change any pixel data and opacity remains 100%. |
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04/12/2007 11:22:19 AM · #19 |
Originally posted by _eug:
Originally posted by klstover:
Originally posted by scalvert:
Combining files or creating a layer with any data on it is illegal in Basic Editing (even if the data came from the same source file). |
Does this mean that, in Basic, if I were to have a file where the background (image) layer was duplicated, SOLELY for "backup" purposes (i.e. you accidently did something to the image layer like painted on it, and didn't notice to undo it right away) this would be illegal? |
Creating a BACKUP layer and a WORKING layer is legal, SO LONG AS you don't change any pixel data and opacity remains 100%. |
I also do this. I create a copy of the background layer and apply noise reduction to that, so that I can keep a copy of the original in the PSD file. |
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04/12/2007 10:58:48 PM · #20 |
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