HM - DPChallenge Forums

Nikon AF Nikkor 50mm f/1.8D

07/07/2003 09:37:58 PM · #26

Originally posted by frisca:

I know that I refrain from commenting when all I have to say are negative

Dear Frisca, but if you see the "HM" suggestion, then please, even if you have nothing positive to add into a negative comment, pls comment anyway. I'm one that would appreciate an honest comment, even if it's negative and direct.

EDIT: sentence reorganized.

Message edited by author 2003-07-07 21:40:07.

frisca

Nikon D70

07/07/2003 09:51:25 PM · #27

as long as you don't call me a no-talent hack with no sense of good photography.. I'm all about it. :)

07/07/2003 10:32:10 PM · #28

Originally posted by frisca:

as long as you don't call me a no-talent hack with no sense of good photography.. I'm all about it. :)

I asked you to "Hit Me" (HM) so of course I will not call you names from your negative comments. But of course, do comment with relation to the photo or photography skills, not be honest of what you think of me! LOL

kyrielle

Nikon Coolpix 5400

07/07/2003 11:04:48 PM · #29

I don't really like this idea. I want all the comments and criticism I can get, even negative, but putting 'HM' on sounds cluttery and unpleasant to view in the title - I don't want it part of my photo's title - and it also is redundant and unfair, since now, people who are in the know to add that, will get better comments than newbies who simply have no clue. And if you want to encourage that kind of comment, now you have to put a tag on your photo's title? Ugh. :(

Canon EF 24-105mm f/4.0L IS

07/07/2003 11:30:29 PM · #30

Then suggest an alternative.

zeuszen

Canon EOS-1Ds Mark II

07/07/2003 11:36:35 PM · #31

Originally posted by kyrielle:

An alternative? [> mavrick]?
There are alternatives to waging wars and the unequal distribution of goods among the people as well. Do you think it any use to post them?

I vote with kyrielle: Njet.

07/07/2003 11:44:30 PM · #32

I suggest that there is a problem ("nice shot good pic" man I don't really want to hurt his/her feelings posts).

An answer was suggested. I'm asking for a better one if you want to shoot this one down.

"I say we arrest people and put them in jail."

"No."

"Then what?"

"Nothing, just no."

That's not a conversation.

Canon EF 24-105mm f/4.0L IS

07/07/2003 11:46:16 PM · #33

Originally posted by kyrielle:

I don't really like this idea. I want all the comments and criticism I can get, even negative

That's the point of the idea. To get more and better comments, rather than people saying to themselves "I would comment, but I don't want to say nice things, so I'll shut up....Oh wait, it's HM, I can say unpleasant things." so they go comment.

zeuszen

Canon EOS-1Ds Mark II

07/08/2003 12:05:59 AM · #34

Originally posted by mavrik:

Originally posted by kyrielle:
I don't really like this idea. I want all the comments and criticism I can get, even negative

That's the point of the idea. To get more and better comments, rather than people saying to themselves "I would comment, but I don't want to say nice things, so I'll shut up....Oh wait, it's HM, I can say unpleasant things." so they go comment.

I appreciate your intent and sincerity, Mavrick. I just don't believe you can advance people beyond their respective level of competence. As I've tried to show in an earlier post [below], I think it more profitable to view comments as what they are. The 'informed' comments usually come in acceptable forms and language. Truth ain't all that ugly. :-)

07/08/2003 12:12:29 AM · #35

Can you truly say you've never wanted to be completely HONEST and HELPFUL to someone but you knew inside that unless it was one of a very few people, they would take it the wrong way and be all offended or hurt?

If you can, then your argument holds weight. I just KNOW that a lot of people hold back to make this a "nicer" place to be. And we aren't saying be mean, it's just saying "it's ok to be honest, I'm ready to take it."

kyrielle

Nikon Coolpix 5400

07/08/2003 12:15:54 AM · #36

Mavrik: I think this change will _discourage_ honest comments, except where the HM is present. I think it will be a detriment to people who don't know about it or want to deal with it. And most people who are not honest in comments now, I suspect will continue to hold back. Some may hold back less than they would have, but it will only increase the sense for newbies that you "shouldn't" be honest about disliking things "unless" it's HM (if it's publicized) or deny newbies what experienced people can ask for and get (if it is not).

Either people are saying honestly what they think, or they aren't. We are at a challenge site where we are all open to comment and critique as part of the challenge, and I don't think that it should be necessary or that it is beneficial to add a tag that basically says, "No, I _REALLY_ mean to be here."

The other way around (a tag or, better, a check box so it did not deface the title of the photo), indicating that you want NO comments, I could see. But you should either open yourself to comments, or not at all, even if the option were there. It shouldn't be necessary to say here that you are here to learn and improve and yes, also compete. That is the whole point of the site.

07/08/2003 01:46:59 AM · #37

I believe some people have got the whole intention of "HM" wrongly. It is not to discourage people from commenting on non-HM photos. And I strongly believe it will not. What I feel is clearly as stated by Mavrik, that it will encourage more comments, because those "better left unsaid" comments will now appear on HM photos.

Example case:
So instead of the usual number of comments per challenge,
now we have those "better left unsaid" comments appearing as well, which adds to the total.

We all know there are lots of nice and friendly people in DPC who just are too nice to leave negative ONLY comments on photos. HM is to tacle these group of people only, so we can get comments that are otherwise unsaid completely.

kyrielle

Nikon Coolpix 5400

07/08/2003 01:49:15 AM · #38

Yes, but people who might have left honest comments anywhere may now get the message that they should "only" leave honest comments if HM is there, otherwise they should only leave a comment if they can compliment the photo. Is that really a good message to send? I don't think so, honestly.

07/08/2003 01:56:03 AM · #39

If it's a site feature, people would understand it as much as they understand anything around here (debatable half the time). If it's not a site feature, who cares what a handful of people do?

Canon EF 70-200mm f/4.0L USM

07/08/2003 01:57:34 AM · #40

Originally posted by kyrielle:

You have a valid point of debate, Kyrielle. From my point of view, only a small fraction of us here actually reads the forums, and even a smaller number may have read this HM thread. For those of us who HAVE read and understand this HM thread, we should understand that:

1. non-HM tagged photos do NOT mean they dont want an honest comment.
The reason is, the photographer may not know about HM. So all of us here, we know we should continue to treat all non-HM photos as we always have.

2. most DPC members who do not even know what HM means (not read this thread), will continue to comment as they usually have, no changes at all.

What do you think?

ozdick

Canon EOS-300D Rebel

07/08/2003 02:02:36 AM · #41

I'd prefer all comments to be anonymous.
That would get rid of the need for a "HM", and mean that all entires have to take the good with the bad.
The userid should be visible to the site administrators though, so that if the comment is obviously an attack and not a comment aimed at helping the photographer then at least the admins can be notified and take appropriate action if necessary.

Mind you, I was going through the comments I left to see if any were helpful and did find one entry which I found quite amusing.
There were several comments left on one photo all pointing out the same problem with the photo and offering a solution on a way for it to be done better.
All these comments which offered something helpful, were left "unchecked" by the user and the ones that said "Love this photo" with no help at all, had been marked as helpful comments - LOL
Just goes to show, not all help is appreciated ;)

Message edited by author 2003-07-08 02:09:11.

byetko

Canon EOS-5D

07/08/2003 04:39:49 AM · #42

How about instead of HM when you want honest comments you title it IHASEDHM (I have a sensitive ego dont hurt me) when you only want people to be nice since most people here probably want honest comments and I would hate to see 200 photos with HM in front of their real titles. Id rather see 5 or 6 IHASEDHMs in front of the title.

Martus

Nikon Z6

Nikon AF Micro-Nikkor 105mm f/2.8D

07/08/2003 05:00:54 AM · #43

Originally posted by byetko:

Do yourself a favour, and on the next challenge look for at least one thing about each photo which bugs you, and leave a brutally honest comment. I'm not saying be tactless, but be honest. Try this and see how much hate mail you get. You'd be surprised at how ferociously some of the people here can attack an honest critique. It's very nice to say that if you don't want honesty don't enter, but in practise that doesn't hold water. I think we should have a couple of auto comment buttons on the voting page with nice messages such as "ooh nice" or "very pretty" and then have a tick box on the submission page where you have to select "I want comments" or "Auto comments only please". That way those of us who want comments can get honest ones, and those of us who comment can focus our attentions on writing comments to people who really want them. I don't vote much, and only leave a few comments, mostly due to time constraints, but when I do comment I try to give advice instead of boosting egos.

Message edited by author 2003-07-08 05:01:59.

dacrazyrn

Nikon D300

Nikon AF-S DX NIKKOR 18-200mm f/3.5-5.6G ED VR II

07/08/2003 06:31:43 AM · #44

I have never recieved back an attack of any kind for my comments. I usually point out something I liked and that was well done in the shot first. I think this kind of smooths out what I say after. I am honest, but I don't attack the problem, or try to belittle the person in any way, just give some constructive criticism.
And when I recieve a comment I don't understand, I PM to followup on what the person thought or to elaborate if needed. And not be rude about it. That seems to be the biggest problem. People need to think of the words they are typing, reread it and ask yourself if that is what you would want someone to say to you. And remember that there are some people who are more sensitive than others (or yourself) may be. Just think of how you are saying something.

Martus

Nikon Z6

Nikon AF Micro-Nikkor 105mm f/2.8D

07/08/2003 07:00:57 AM · #45

I have had a user call me a "stupid mindless sheep who should wake up and broaden my horisons" for suggesting that a shot could have been improved by choosing a different angle. Following that I removed my e-mail adress from my profile.

SharQ

Canon EOS-30D

Canon EF 28-135mm f/3.5-5.6 IS USM

07/08/2003 07:15:35 AM · #46

Originally posted by shadow:

how about an un-offical rule to name our photo submission starting with a "HM" for anyone who wants the commentors to be fully honest?

How about people who don't want comments on their pictures just don't post on DPC?

gah

heida

Canon EOS-5D

Canon EF 24-70mm f/2.8L USM

07/08/2003 07:16:47 AM · #47

I did comment on the HM photo that is in the challenge now And I found myself looking alot better at that photo trying to find something that I could actually say - wouldnt have done it if it wasnt hm photo I think it is very cool to have this

SharQ

Canon EOS-30D

Canon EF 28-135mm f/3.5-5.6 IS USM

07/08/2003 07:23:30 AM · #48

Originally posted by shadow:

No, this isn't official. Just a small user group thing. You mentioned a very good point - will people comment less on photos without the HM extension?

Actually, I would vote a picture with "HM" in the title LOWER, rather than higher. I have never heard a picture that had "HM" in the title, unless it was taken for a Hennes & Mauritz commercial.

Sorry, I think the intention is good, but the idea is not.

Haje

basia03

Canon PowerShot SX50 HS

07/08/2003 09:09:14 AM · #49

i agree with kyrielle - if you want feedback you submit your challenge entry, if not - you don't submit it, you just sit by yourself and admire it... besides, at the moment "hm" just acts like shadow's signature... i went there, looked at it, didn't feel like commenting at all, all i thought was "why would anybody want to take a picture like that??? of that??? even look at that??? what kind of feedback you'd be looking for that you don't really see yourself already???"