noise attack - DPChallenge Forums

03/26/2007 03:28:36 PM · #1

hello!

I have a nikon d50. I also have one softbox and one umbrella. and huge windows. I think I get enough light for my photos. I shoot ISO 200 - minumum for this camera.
BUT I always have a lot of noise in them. ALWAYS.
when I look at them at 100% they all look horrible. even the ones with perfect bright light.
I can see many "bricks" on 100%, photos are not sharp (ok, I turned off in-camera sharpening but still), but those bricks and squares irritate me most. even if I don't make any raw adjustments I still get those bricks.
they really irritate me :)
when I use either CS2 noise reduction or NeatImage I loose lots of details and STILL get much noise. I have to use surface blur combined with NI - but I have no skin structire and my (self)portraits look like dolls. I do not like it.

what am I doing wrong? I would like to get clear images without using NI or at least using it just a little bit.

and they didn't take me to Shutterstock, and the reason was noise.

I would REALLY appreciate any help!! thank you!

Svetlana

PS. forgot to say, I took some photos by the sea yesterday, the weather was excellent, bright sunny day, no wind, no clouds. so when i got home and looked at the photos - yes, all the drker areas had noise. all of them!!

hmmm:) maybe I should have called it "noisy attack" or "noise attacks"... sorry:)

Message edited by author 2007-03-26 15:29:51.

03/26/2007 03:31:42 PM · #2

can we see an example 100% crop with both some light and dark areas at ISO 200?

Nikon AF-S DX Zoom-Nikkor 18-55mm f/3.5-5.6G VR

03/26/2007 03:32:03 PM · #3

sure, just a sec

RainMotorsports

Nikon D60

03/26/2007 03:38:38 PM · #4

Originally posted by silverfoxx:

sure, just a sec

Well noise can be caused by things other then just the ISO. Different levels of sharpening enhance any noise that is already there. And blurry shots (easy to have happen at iso 200) tend to look noisy even though its not actual noise.

03/26/2007 03:53:19 PM · #5

from my Le Reve image. no editing, no raw adjustments.
I can't understand if it is just not in focus. it seems to be in focus to me! but look at the skin, it's horrible!! :) (please, this is not my skin problems :P)
the skin and hair, and it's almost always like that with the skin. no structure.
I'll try to crop something from a closer shot. it's not only on the distance.

I only have 200 in my cam:( it's the minimal level

03/26/2007 03:56:17 PM · #6

That is not normal. You shot in RAW? Almost looks like heavy JPG compression.

The focus is sharp enough and it seems well enough exposed.

Does this happen with all lenses?
Have you always had this problem with this camera or did it just start?
How do you get the pictures off the camera?

03/26/2007 04:01:30 PM · #7

I always shoot raw. I copy photos from my camera mostly via usb and then use Raw Shooter essentials to browse throught hem and choose the ones I like. then I make some adjustments, usually a bit exposure compensation and color balance. then it opens in CS2 and I look at it 100%. it looks horrible as usual so i go back to RAw Shooter and use a bit noise reduction. it makes things even worse becasue now I miss all the structures. ufff .)

yes, it happens with all lenses, but I only have two. 18-55 and 50mm. it shows especially well with 50mm and f1.4-3.5, a lot of noise on blurred areas.

but the biggest problem is that lack of structure.

it's always been like this, since I got the camera.

03/26/2007 04:11:15 PM · #8

one more:

no adjustments at all.

well, the light on the tennis courts is not perfect, but still, the skin has no structure and the noise is everywhere.

brownsm

Canon EF 24-70mm f/2.8L USM

03/26/2007 04:21:46 PM · #9

Svetlana, I took a look at the photo, Le Reve. When I zoom in to the areas you cropped (your face, for example), I can certainly see the "bricks", which are the individual pixels of the image. But, that is to be expected since I am looking at a zoom of an image that is only 800 pixels wide to start with. Again, this is expected. The question is, do you still see this effect before you do any re-sizing? Remember, it is very easy to "pixel-peep" on the monitor, which often has no relevance to viewing the entire image at its intended viewing distance. The sizes we load onto DPC (640 pixels for challenges) are intended to give an image designed for viewing on our computer monitors. If you were to produce a print from that image, it would look horrible (you'd be able to see the "bricks".

If you would like, send me a copy of the full-size image in a PM. I can't read Nikon images, but a maximum quality jpg will suffice.

Steve

03/26/2007 04:31:47 PM · #10

Well here's a 100% crop example from my D70s (same sensor) shot RAW at ISO 400. No processing just cropped and uploaded.

I'm sure others will chime in but your pics don't look right to me, I think there may be something wrong with your sensor. Is your camera very old?

Canon EF 70-200mm f/2.8L IS USM

03/26/2007 04:36:17 PM · #11

thank you Steve! could you please tell me yoour adrees where I can send it to?
no, those are crops from the original tiff files.

Dan, I got my cam as a present in september 2006. it was brand new:)

quiet_observation

Canon EOS-7D

03/26/2007 05:06:36 PM · #12

Some cameras don't perform well in low light conditions. My guess with your camera you need more light?

jdannels has used a D50; he's one of our "yappie" awardees because of his helpful comments. Maybe PM him and ask about if there is a noise issue with the D50 and how to handle it?

Canon EF 70-200mm f/2.8L IS USM

03/26/2007 05:12:37 PM · #13

yes Mary, I often have a feeling I don't have enough light:( or the camera doesn't like the light it gets. but is it normal? I really want to take low light photos. it's not only noise, it's that "pixelisation", those "bricks"...
thank you! I will ask him

quiet_observation

Canon EOS-7D

03/26/2007 05:14:18 PM · #14

It also might be time to look at upgrading your camera. Your photography certainly warrants it.

ralph

Nikon Z9

03/26/2007 05:23:40 PM · #15

very strange .. i thought the d50 was supposed to be superior in noise reduction ...
fire off a raw to me as well if you wish (email available at my //ralph.ca)

03/26/2007 05:30:19 PM · #16

I don't think it's a matter of not enough light. Here's another example with very low light shot at ISO 200 with my old D70s again (100% crop):

The image quality of the D50 should be the same. Notice there is no blocking (or "bricking"). The details of the "fur" are still very apparent and there is very little discernible noise.

Message edited by author 2007-03-26 17:31:28.

03/26/2007 05:59:18 PM · #17

well, I have tested both lenses a lot now, and 50mm is much better indeed. still much noise in the darker areas, but I will test it on the skin from the distance a bit later now.

Steve, sent you an email.
Ralph, sending you now!
Dan, your photos look good. but my test photos now also look quite ok! the ones I took with my 50mm. 18-55 is hopeless. will continue experimenting tomorrow
:)

Mary, yes, maybe noise is normal and I am just looking for a reason to upgrade? :)

ralph

Nikon Z9

03/26/2007 07:01:39 PM · #18

these were all done with Nikon Capture
first is a direct conversion to JPG
second is with a Exposure Compensation of +1
third is with a Exposure Compensation of +1 + Noise reduction intensity set to 10

my conclusion .. bit under exposed, focus was on the wall / the softness comes out with a bit of NR ;)

lovely pic ..

as far as the sofa pic

no real color noise that i could discern but under exposed ...
being under exposed will show more color noise in the shadows -- it's better to nail the exposue & then push back than try to pull the picture

edit: & oh never new my mailserver could take a 15meg file .. never tried that before ;)

Message edited by author 2007-03-26 19:02:40.

03/27/2007 04:21:50 AM · #19

hehe:) thank you Ralph!! so it's all about underexposure? I still would like to take low light photos:) oh well...

surfdabbler

Canon EF-S 18-55mm f/3.5-5.6 II

03/27/2007 06:22:22 AM · #20

I'm struggling with my new Canon at the moment, and it's having a similar problem. The default settings seem to way underexpose the shot, so almost every shot has to be pushed up, which brings out the noise.

You can take low light photos, but you have to get the exposure right in the first place to minimise noise. If you are finding you have to add +1 EV in the RAW conversion, then add +1 EV in the camera instead, and you'll get a much better result.

edit - assuming you are using auto exposure settings. If you are using Manual exposure, then open the aperture, or increase the exposure time.

Message edited by author 2007-03-27 06:25:39.

ralph

Nikon Z9

03/27/2007 07:35:37 AM · #21

BTW: i like PSCS but (IMO) you will get better conversion to jpg using NikonCapture ... i use it for the Front End work & only go to PS for other changes (spot editing..)

hsolakidis

Nikon D50

Nikon AF-S DX Zoom-Nikkor 18-70mm f/3.5-4.5G IF-ED

03/27/2007 07:42:58 AM · #22

I think it really is an exposure problem. I tend to get noise as well in low light images. Give the camera a bit more light and try looking at the histogram after capture.

03/27/2007 09:15:23 AM · #23

ok, thank you so much everyone who helped!
I still think there's something missing in the camera, but maybe it's becasue I was looking at a photographer working with a hasselblad some weeks ago, and he could view images at 100% and more and they were still perfect... even if I take my photos on a sunny day there's still something not good, they are not clear, not sharp.
I only use manual settings, and always try to tak some test shots. when the highlights stop blinking in the camera after I've taken a photo - that is the right exposure for me. I can't increase the time! the highlights will be totally blown out.