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07/03/2003 06:20:05 AM · #1 |
a spin-off from this thread...
how about an un-offical rule to name our photo submission starting with a "HM" for anyone who wants the commentors to be fully honest? So when a voter see a photo with "HM" in the front, that means he/she do not mind a negative comment from voters. For instance:
"HM - Speedometer"
"HM - my backyard"
So if I see a submission with "HM" in the title, and I have some negative comments to say, I will bravely put it in, as I know the photographer would appreciate an honest comment, no matter how bad it is. What do you all think? Let this be unofficial, but I think it's cool if we can have this working right.
BTW, "HM" simply means "Hit Me" :)
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07/03/2003 06:34:29 AM · #2 |
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07/03/2003 06:47:23 AM · #3 |
| I like it I'm just afraid that it may become an excuse for nastiness and not truth. but I'll use it as well |
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07/03/2003 07:43:51 AM · #4 |
Originally posted by joannadiva:
I like it I'm just afraid that it may become an excuse for nastiness and not truth. but I'll use it as well |
Whether its nastiness or excessively nice, or somewhere in the middle, its up to the person receiving the comments to take what they can get out of them that is useful and discard the rest. Unfortunately no matter what you say, "Your photo sucks" sounds just as bad in euphemisms and fluff as it does if you just say it like the quote. I'll have to remember the HM thing for my next photo submission, sometime after the 2 challenges we are shooting now are long gone.
Bob
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07/03/2003 10:16:50 AM · #5 |
i'm pretty sure ppl wont misuse this. HM means hit me with honesty, not insult me! But pls also have an open mind with the comments, especially the negative ones, which can hurt sometimes.
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07/03/2003 10:30:46 AM · #6 |
who ever makes comments should be honest anyways regardless if the photo is good or bad in their opinion ... people are already opening the door for any comments by even submitting the photos to the challenges. I dont think we should have to change the title of our photos to let people know how they are "aloud to comment". By submitting those photos the photographer should already be prepared for any type of comments ... and all they are, are comments ... some people will say they like it and some people will say they dont .. and some people will also suggest ideas how to change it ... that's all what comments are about
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07/03/2003 10:36:42 AM · #7 |
When I put my photos up for challenges I thought I was saying Hit Me. If I didn't want people to be brutally honest I'd never improve. I understand your idea but I don't think people should see that to be honest, they should just be honest to begin with.
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07/03/2003 10:48:41 AM · #8 |
true, when we submit a photo, we are "at risk" of getting brutal comments. But If you read on the initial thread, some people are saying that they held-back commenting if they have nothing nice to say. This is not what I like. I would prefer even the negative ones, it hurts at first, but these are the ones that help u improve. So the whole HM idea is so that when a commentor has something frank and blunt to say, I do not want him to hold back. Just "hit me"...
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07/03/2003 10:51:22 AM · #9 |
I disagree .. Like some of the others, I think everybody must be honest with all the pictures.. One main point of the challenges, is to improve our quality with the critiques and comments.
We must be open minded to all the comments always..
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07/03/2003 11:04:50 AM · #10 |
Originally posted by diegohs:
I disagree .. Like some of the others, I think everybody must be honest with all the pictures.. One main point of the challenges, is to improve our quality with the critiques and comments.
We must be open minded to all the comments always.. |
Alas, reality is, some people CANNOT take blunt criticism. And there are also commentors that realize this, so they would rather NOT comment if they have nothing nice to say. The only comments remain are the GOOD ones. I prefer to have both, no matter how unpleasant they are. That what makes me think of HM. Why dont we just try it out and see if it works at all?
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07/03/2003 11:14:12 AM · #11 |
I too think people should be honest with all the shots. I just hope that people don't start thinking "oh, this doesn't have a HM on it, I guess I have to be 'nice' and not 'honest'."
I'll continue honestly commenting on all the shots I comment on weather I like it or not.
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07/03/2003 11:17:29 AM · #12 |
Originally posted by diegohs:
I disagree .. Like some of the others, I think everybody must be honest with all the pictures.. One main point of the challenges, is to improve our quality with the critiques and comments.
We must be open minded to all the comments always.. |
There is some tact that we should use when commenting. We have to temper what we say with some degree of judgement.
There are always a couple pics every week that make me say "What the hell were you thinking?" But I would never write that. We are free to say what we want, but we also don't need 8000 enemies because we can't use judgement to state what we feel.
Bob
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07/03/2003 11:27:44 AM · #13 |
| I would think everybody should comment what they think, positive or negative, the negative comments are often the most useful ones. Don't think we need to give "permission" for others to comment negatively. More comments - more gain for me |
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07/03/2003 11:30:18 AM · #14 |
Originally posted by inspzil:
There are always a couple pics every week that make me say "What the hell were you thinking?" But I would never write that. We are free to say what we want, but we also don't need 8000 enemies because we can't use judgement to state what we feel.
Bob |
On one of my shots, you didn't say "what the hell were you thinking but you DID say "Put all the disclaimers on this one you like, it doesn't help the picture. I don't really like it on the whole."
Not really the most sensitive comment I've ever gotten, but still definately helpful, and I appreciated it just the same. To me, it doesn't matter nice or not, if it's helpful, it's helpful.
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07/03/2003 11:54:06 AM · #15 |
| putting HM on a title keeps it that way..even on dpcprints. |
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07/03/2003 12:12:11 PM · #16 |
Originally posted by hbunch7187:
On one of my shots, you didn't say "what the hell were you thinking but you DID say "Put all the disclaimers on this one you like, it doesn't help the picture. I don't really like it on the whole."
Not really the most sensitive comment I've ever gotten, but still definately helpful, and I appreciated it just the same. To me, it doesn't matter nice or not, if it's helpful, it's helpful. |
I did say that didn't I? I think that kind of ties into the thread from which this thread started. I think that the lack of anonymity during voting has changed my view on that kind of commenting. That was a pretty brutal comment. "Back in the day" I left more than a few of those. But with wisdom comes judgement.
The thing that I find most peculiar about that is that you found it to be at all helpful. I know exactly the picture to which you refer. And I know why I said what I said. I think at that point it was a matter of personal taste vs. what is or isn't good photography, since I was still pretty naive to exactly what a good photo was (there might be some dispute to whether or not I know right now).
Whatever the case, that was in a different era of DPC and early in my "career" here. That might've been "pre-mod" days for you Heather. Still I think that its possible to be honest and tactful. It's something I've been working on...
Bob
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07/03/2003 12:57:24 PM · #17 |
I can't subscribe to the HM hypothesis. If you don't want constructive criticism, don't submit photos to a website designed to let others vote on, and critique your work.
The first rule of Constructive Management: Accompany every criticism with praise. If you're telling someone what you DON'T like about a shot, also include what you DO like. i.e.) "You focus like a cyclops wearing an eyepatch, but the colours are pretty".
It shows that you're not just being a jacka**, but actually taking time out of your life to illustrate what you do and don't like about a photo. That gives me the knowledge of both what does and doesn't work for voters, which should help us become better photographers, no?
Pedro
p.s. OK a little sarcasm on the Cyclops part, but you get the idea :)
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07/03/2003 03:06:48 PM · #18 |
I very much appreciate this effort to get more citical comments, because that's where I learn from most. And I don't want to be so negative, but I'm not very confident that it will work...
a) People who hold back negative comments will do this either way.
As far as I understood these people who have this "if you don't have something nice to say, say nothing at all" mindet do this by nature. It seems to be a general trait of them. I think that's very unfortunate for a photography site where everybody wants to learn and I personally don't understand this because critical comments still can be nice. There is no contradiction in my opinion.
b) People who do constructive negative criticism will do it anyway, too. That's the crowd like me who think that when I dislike something about a photo that should be said, too.
But I also tend to comment more on photos I like than on photos I don't like. I think that's the reason for the lack of negative comments. It's much harder to give reasons why you don't like a photo than why you like a photo.
I'm so glad that there is the Critique Club! I think that's the right solution. So people please join the Critique Club! :)
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07/03/2003 07:36:40 PM · #19 |
Originally posted by hbunch7187:
I just hope that people don't start thinking "oh, this doesn't have a HM on it, I guess I have to be 'nice' and not 'honest'." |
Exactly what I was thinking. It would do more harm than good, even though it is a sincere proposal.
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07/03/2003 08:11:18 PM · #20 |
Originally posted by hbunch7187:
I just hope that people don't start thinking "oh, this doesn't have a HM on it, I guess I have to be 'nice' and not 'honest'." |
No, this isn't official. Just a small user group thing. You mentioned a very good point - will people comment less on photos without the HM extension? Well, I would say no, because not everyone knows what HM stands for anyway. For those of us here who knows what and WHY the HM extension is there, at least we know the photographer prefer a blunt comment rather than a candy-sweetened comment, especially negative ones.
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07/03/2003 09:07:01 PM · #21 |
I'm curious... So who of you will heed the HM label and write negative criticism and wouldn't have done so without it?
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07/03/2003 09:18:19 PM · #22 |
Originally posted by stephan:
I'm curious... So who of you will heed the HM label and write negative criticism and wouldn't have done so without it? |
Since I suggested this, surely I will play by it. I wont purposely hunt for HM photos, but when I have something blunt and "unfriendly" to comment on a photo, and coincidentally the photo has the HM extension, then I will comment it. For those without HM, in the past, I would rather not leave comments if I feel it might offend the photographer.
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07/07/2003 08:09:42 PM · #23 |
I saw only one in Unanswered Qs. I wish this would catch on, but people just aren't up for it ...
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07/07/2003 08:20:52 PM · #24 |
I know that I refrain from commenting when all I have to say are negative things like "your subject is not interesting" or "there is massive glare that distracts immensely" or whatever. I go through bouts where all I see are pictures that I struggle to find something positive to add to the initial negative reaction I have to a picture. My new approach is to try to put comments on the pictures I rate in the middle of the pack and try to say why the shot just didn't do it for me. But still, I hold back on the really brutal stuff. I don't always have the energy to make it perfectly diplomatic so that it will be taken as constructive, if not a pat on the back.
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07/07/2003 08:37:54 PM · #25 |
All I know is that truth is good. Whenever truth 'hits' me, I have a chance to grow.
The best and most useful comments, in my experience here, have been 'informed', sometimes to a remarkable degree. Many comments have not.
'Informed' comments tend to civilize, not 'tear down'. Uninformed comments are irrelevant. really.
I see no need for pads and patches.
Open the window. Let's the winds blow.
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