Score 4.5-5.99 and need a critique?

Tamron SP AF 17-50mm f/2.8 Di II LD Aspherical (IF) for Nikon

03/14/2007 11:03:04 AM · #1

Good day... Wonder why you got the score you did?

If you'd like a critique I'll take on the first 10 who post an image here.

Btw, I don't have a lock on absolute truth and mine is only opinion. :)

OK... that does it! The magic number 10 has been reached. :)

Till next time... happy photography!

Message edited by author 2007-03-14 22:17:39.

zaflabout

Nikon D300

03/14/2007 11:05:02 AM · #2

i was not expecting it to ribbon, but a bit dissapointed by the score, a critique would be more than helpful:)

pamelasue

Tamron SP AF 28-75mm f/2.8 XR Di for Canon

03/14/2007 11:07:16 AM · #3

quiet_observation

Canon EOS-7D

Canon EF 70-200mm f/2.8L IS USM

03/14/2007 11:09:16 AM · #4

PHOTOKID

03/14/2007 11:18:49 AM · #5

Thanks in advance.

Rich

darnok

Nikon D850

Nikon AF-S Nikkor 16-35 f/4 ED VR

03/14/2007 11:21:18 AM · #6

Thanks in advance

Nikon AF-S NIKKOR 24-70mm f/2.8G ED

03/14/2007 11:47:49 AM · #7

Originally posted by zaflabout:

Positives:
Model capture and intense flesh tones suit this image well. Has a nice middle eastern feel to it. Flesh tones have an intense strength to it. Well done with the eyes and upper facial expression which gives the viewer reason to care to know more about your subject.

Technicals:
In this image the eyes are most important and you nailed that capture very well. Focus, color and exposure are generally OK but not exceptional.

This will sound like nit picking but there are some small technical faults that collectively affect the score. There is white haloing around red wrap's edge. The image is just a smidge oversharpened as shown as in the model's hair and a slightly overly mottled look to the skin. There wrap below and to the left of the model's face is out-of-focus. The DOF of this image is high enough to warrent having the whole image sharp. Lighting from the left is great but the depth of shadow on the right side detracts from your overall effect. You might consider another light from the upper or lower right to brighten the right side slightly.

The Challenge:
Ironically, gender may have played a role in your score. Females done in this style do better. This well-known DPC kiwiness image sets the standard for this particular image style:

You will want to study and cross compare this image to your own. You'll see all the things that make it better than yours. You will want to note what those are and emulate them. It is possible that a collective memory of this image negatively affected your score.

Neil

Fujifilm X-T30

03/14/2007 11:48:13 AM · #8

Thanks.

zaflabout

Nikon D300

Tamron SP AF 17-50mm f/2.8 Di II LD Aspherical (IF) for Nikon

03/14/2007 11:52:48 AM · #9

thank you, that was actually very helpfull:)

03/14/2007 12:01:41 PM · #10

Originally posted by pamelasue:

Positives:
Simple and to the point. Center framing works with this image and theaddition of the color with the lime is a nice touch.

Technicals:
Lack of digital artifacts is a strength. The background is not solid white but the amount of detail it does have works. Exposure is average with a slight bit of edge loss on the lower stem and base. Though not a hard and fast rule you almost always want to have a discernible edge all the way around your main subject.

Though it has no digital artifacts the image comes across as slightly soft focused which affected its score. There is a curved band-like reflection in the red liquid that confuses the viewer since they want to know what it is but cannot figure it out. It acts as a distraction.

In an image like this being level is critical. It needs to be rotated clockwise slightly.

The challenge:
This type image has become cliche at DPC and you certainly suffered scorewise from that. Not to say you should not submit this type of image, but when you do you have to be 100% certain that it has absolutely no technical defects whatsoever. It has to be PERFECT!

pamelasue

Tamron SP AF 28-75mm f/2.8 XR Di for Canon

03/14/2007 12:13:18 PM · #11

Originally posted by stdavidson:

Originally posted by pamelasue:

Positives:
Simple and to the point. Center framing works with this image and theaddition of the color with the lime is a nice touch.

Technicals:
Lack of digital artifacts is a strength. The background is not solid white but the amount of detail it does have works. Exposure is average with a slight bit of edge loss on the lower stem and base. Though not a hard and fast rule you almost always want to have a discernible edge all the way around your main subject.

Though it has no digital artifacts the image comes across as slightly soft focused which affected its score. There is a curved band-like reflection in the red liquid that confuses the viewer since they want to know what it is but cannot figure it out. It acts as a distraction.

In an image like this being level is critical. It needs to be rotated clockwise slightly.

The challenge:
This type image has become cliche at DPC and you certainly suffered scorewise from that. Not to say you should not submit this type of image, but when you do you have to be 100% certain that it has absolutely no technical defects whatsoever. It has to be PERFECT!

thanks a bunch for your honest opinion ... the glass has a swirly pattern etched into it, and that is the 'curved-band like' reflection you see ... guess I should have gotten a clear glass instead of using the everyday cosmotini glass!

Shaurya

Canon EOS-60D

Canon EF-S 15-85mm f/3.5-5.6 IS USM

03/14/2007 12:23:32 PM · #12

Thanx

Canon EF 35-135mm f/4-5.6 USM

03/14/2007 12:26:16 PM · #13

Originally posted by quiet_observation:

Positives:
Tonality is the strength of this composition. Duotone light blue works well. It is obvious that you took care deciding how to compose the image and deciding to include the ribbon. You really did a great job with the use of natural and/or natural looking lighting. Nicely done. It is a good try.

Technicals:
Again, tonality and lighting are what makes this a good image. The main technical fault is digital "jaggies" on the edges of the ribbon in various places. That always acts as a distraction. Composition, though not really bad at all, is not strong. Perspective is kinda 'average'. ;)

The challenge:
DPC voters want to be hit over the head with dazzling technicals, a strong unmistakable connection to the challenge topic and/or strong message. Your image fails in that because voters cannot figure out why you included the ribbon. Though it is obviously a bed, voters are not strongly associating your image to the challenge topic.

Suggestions:
There are a couple things you might consider for a better score with this image. Try a different perspective. Add another element to the composition to better explain the inclusion of the ribbon. And, of course, redo sharpness to eliminate the digital "jaggies".

Trinity_12_12

Canon EOS-30D

03/14/2007 12:29:37 PM · #14

A comment on this one would be really appreciated as I expected it to score higher. Thank you so much!

03/14/2007 12:46:46 PM · #15

Originally posted by Hot_Pixel:

Positives:
There are a lot of things to like about this image. It captures the feeling of a small town New England fishing nicely. Exposure is very well done and retains good detail. With the boats, the red building commands the center of attention and has a 'New England' feel. :) The boat reflections add interest to the composition.

Technicals:
The exposure retaining detail and tonality is a strength. Lighting and lighting direction does not play a central role. Color is generally good. This image does not have any over and/or underexposed areas. This is good. Depth and tones are very good.

Sky and cloud detail is weak.

The challenge:
Meets the challenge. It works, but not at the highest levels viewers may be looking for. (What do they know? LOL!!)

Suggestions:
Apply severe dodge and burn to the sky. It is the waekest part of the composition. You included the sky so adding more viewer interest there is paramount for a higher score.

PHOTOKID

03/14/2007 12:59:58 PM · #16

Originally posted by stdavidson:

Originally posted by Hot_Pixel:

Positives:
There are a lot of things to like about this image. It captures the feeling of a small town New England fishing nicely. Exposure is very well done and retains good detail. With the boats, the red building commands the center of attention and has a 'New England' feel. :) The boat reflections add interest to the composition.

Technicals:
The exposure retaining detail and tonality is a strength. Lighting and lighting direction does not play a central role. Color is generally good. This image does not have any over and/or underexposed areas. This is good. Depth and tones are very good.

Sky and cloud detail is weak.

The challenge:
Meets the challenge. It works, but not at the highest levels viewers may be looking for. (What do they know? LOL!!)

Suggestions:
Apply severe dodge and burn to the sky. It is the waekest part of the composition. You included the sky so adding more viewer interest there is paramount for a higher score.

Thank you Steve,

My only question is is dodge and burn allowed in a basic challenge, seeing it is done only to a portion of a photo? If not are there other things that I could have done to improve the sky while staying in the realms of basic editing.

03/14/2007 01:25:55 PM · #17

Originally posted by Raziel:

Positives:
Reds work very well against the black. Tones are generally very, very good. The effect of this image is absolutely dependent on attention to detail and it is obvious you did that.

Technicals:
Technicals are generally good, though not spectacular. There is a question in my mind, and perhaps the mind of voters, as to whether it should be sharper or not. I can't figure it out myself.

This image has a lot of dark space and I'm sure this is by design, but is it good? Again, I don't really know for sure.

One thing I am sure of is that that the technicals are not bad in any way shape or form.

The challenge:
Red floral images composed like this are cliche at DPC and that affected voting on this one. I remember a very fine image by jmsetzler that easily outperformed my own submission in the soft focus challenge:

In order to pull off this type of image you must include something special about it to set it apart from the others. Your choice of a low detail imagery might not have worked as well as another choice might have with voters. There were a number of images like yours in this challenge.

To be honest, by average DPC scoring standards I am a bit surprised it scored as high as it did.

Suggestions:
Perhaps the detail, or lack thereof, in this image ultimately hurt it in voting. Either increase the exposure time or increase the f/stop to include more detail would garner a higher score (Or do it in post.). Study jmsetzler's "Pianissimo" image. It is an excellent example of this particular type imagery. That will teach you far, far more than any critique of mine.

03/14/2007 01:44:06 PM · #18

Originally posted by nshapiro:

Positives:
Great choice of blue tones. General overall technical quality is good. Tonality is nice.

Technicals:
The image contains a few white specks that should be cloned out. Unsure but think that would be allowed in basic editing now. It is slightly oversharpened, but not much. The interior of the 'porpoise' has some oversharpened spots. Lighting is OK.

The challenge:
Meets the challenge. That is no problem. Your assumption that voters would see the 'porpoise' and vote it higher as a result is probably in error and explains why it scored lower than you thought.

Suggestions:
Clone out the white specks. The brightest areas of the interior of the 'porpoise' should be toned down. Unsure if this is possible in basic but reducing overall sharpness would help with this. Overall composition is not bad, but you might want to experiment with other framing to see if it 'looks better'.

03/14/2007 02:10:21 PM · #19

Originally posted by Shaurya:

Thanx

Positives:
Nice solid black background. (There is a vocal subgroup of DPC voters who may call this a fault and will vote this down because of it, but ignore that). The choice of minimalism is nice.

Technicals:
As a minimalist composition it is critical that the technicals have no faults. Unfortunately this image is slightly oversharpened and suffers from digital "jaggies" in all the arched, narrow parts.

The challenge:
This choice of imagery and minimalism can do very well at DPC and DPC for this particular challenge but it has to be perfect techically. The technicals held it back more than anything else. "Jaggies" is a serious technical flaw, even in a non-technical challenge but despite that it scored above average. In thumbnail this image is not at all impressive and that probably affected some voters.

Low-key imagery, perhaps, works best with a lot of tonality that yours lacks and that could have affected it in voting. Your choice using strong highlighting is not wrong, it can and does work well, but the technicals held it back.

Suggestions:
By far, correcting the "jaggies" would be the single most important improvement that would get this a higher score. Unfortunately, since this is a basic challenge you would have to do that at the cost of softer focus on the rest of the image and that might not work either. It might be this image composition was not the best for this particular challenge.

Sigma 10-20mm f/4-5.6 EX DC HSM for Canon

03/14/2007 02:14:48 PM · #20

Originally posted by Hot_Pixel:

Originally posted by stdavidson:

Originally posted by Hot_Pixel:

Thank you Steve,

My only question is is dodge and burn allowed in a basic challenge, seeing it is done only to a portion of a photo? If not are there other things that I could have done to improve the sky while staying in the realms of basic editing.

Of yeah... I forgot it was basic editing.

In that case you should crop out as much of the sky as possible because it is not interesting. It screws up the composition in the 'real' world, but is what you need to do for a DPC basic challenge. But I would do that ONLY for the challenge.

Message edited by author 2007-03-14 14:16:35.

inshaala

Canon EOS-7D

03/14/2007 02:18:33 PM · #21

I think that is within the first 10.

Message edited by author 2007-03-14 14:19:25.

03/14/2007 02:41:46 PM · #22

Originally posted by Trinity_12_12:

Positives:
Nicely captured tones in a low-key image. Creative and very surrealistic photograph. Love the juxtaposition of the and use of a flower against with the strange watery background. This is a fine photograph.

Technicals:
Centering lighting on the flower is perfect. Tones are very nice. The distended stretching of the flower reflection is photographic genius. Basically centering it in the composition hurts its visual esthetics.

Unfortunately, like most of mine, this image is slightly oversharpened. There are a lot of digital "jaggies" in the water drops. That is to bad.

The challenge:
This image meets the challenge well but I would not be surprised to hear some voters suggest this is 'not low-key enough'. DPC voters can be narrow minded and flat out wrong at times and some of that may have affected your image in voting. I suspect framing played as much or more of a roll as that in lowering the score.

Suggestions:
Correct the "jaggies". There is no substitude for technical excellence. A slight framing change would help to offset the flower from a centered position in the frame. This could be achieved by croping closer to the rightmost water drop and adding more 'negative space' to the left side if that is possible. It is not much but would add more viewer interest to the composition.

Canon EF 35-135mm f/4-5.6 USM

03/14/2007 03:10:26 PM · #23

Originally posted by inshaala:

I think that is within the first 10.

It is. :)

Positives:
Oh boy! How could this image score so poorly? It is the type of image that makes me shake my head. It is technically a very good picture. There is so much to like about it technically. Framing is good, lighting and color are very good. What is wrong with it? I'd love to know what people think is wrong with this photograph to justify such a incredibly low score. Do tell? I'm listening.

Technicals:
As I said there is little technically you can fault about this image. It is not oversharpened and it is not under or over exposed. The match head is not perfectly horizontal and should be rotated counterclockwise slightly, but I've seen ribbon winners out of level far more that.

The challenge:
This is where I need help. Looks like it meets that challenge fine to me. One person suggested this was out of focus. Wellll... it does have a shallow depth of field but certainly is not out of focus. Another voter lamented, "... i'm diappointed that that was the only red thing you could find to take a picture of"? Is this image just boring or something? Is this voter correct? I certainly don't think so.

This is pure speculation, but perhaps voters have become accustomed to the fact that when they see a closeup of a match head that it should be burning and since it is not that is why they voted it lower.

But I'm really at a loss why this was scored so harshly.

Suggestions:
Light the match next time. :) Of course, to meet a red challenge you would have to capture it at mid-ignition in order to show some red. That is very hard but if you could capture that then it most certainly would be a ribbon contender with the same technical quality you already achieved.

You might also consider stopping down the lens more for greater depth of field, but I really don't think it needs it.

Trinity_12_12

Canon EOS-30D

03/14/2007 04:17:10 PM · #24

Thank you very much

stdavidson for an extremely helpful critique. Funny enough, I know the rules about centered compositions and for some reason, I did not take notice of this at all when I was taking the photograph. I think I was too eager and therefore overlooked the obvious.

Your comment about the 'jaggies' has really taught me something. Being new to digital, I would never have noticed them if you had not pointed them out. Next time I sharpen, I will definately watch for this.

I have the RAW version of this photograph, so will definately follow your suggestions second time round.

Thanks again! You're a star!