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06/26/2003 11:42:52 PM · #26 |
Originally posted by magnetic9999:
the only thing that would make it any different is if there's something special to the pics themselves. |
So only the actual picture interests you? Not the setting, surroundings, motivtation, etc?
I don't know if I remember correctly, but I think in one of the "art appreciation" threads was a photo of a portrait of a sugar plantation worker made out of sugar (the portrait not the worker ;-)). The photographer was somebody who was raised on such a plantation. So to you it was just a photo of sugar? To me there was a deeper meaning to it. That's what I meant. I can imagine that in the blind persons photography there is more than just the pic.
Originally posted by magnetic9999:
and since we arent being shown them we haven't anyway of knowing if this is the case. |
Um... I read the article, I thought about it, I used my imagination... maybe I'm wrong and I find his photos boring if I would see them, but the article intrigued me. That's all I wanted to say.
@dacrazyrn: I honestly don't understand why you accuse me of being overly PC or whatever just because I think it's not nice to make fun of the blind man. Strange thing is that some sentences later you try to excuse your rudeness by saying that it actually would be more PC to make fun of him because of equal treatment. So you make fun of all people? Do you have many friends? ;-) I didn't say it's not cool to make fun of him because he's blind. I said it because I think we (me anyway) know next to nothing from him and his photography. We didn't even see a single photo from him.
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06/26/2003 11:49:57 PM · #27 |
Originally posted by Journey:
Well, folks, why not do a shoot with your eyes closed and shoot based on hearing interesting sounds... |
Precisely, why not? Do you have any doubt that blind people are able to "visualize" shapes and spatial relationships? Why should they NOT be able to "compose" a picture and produce a specific, intended, result, even if they can't enjoy the 2-D representation themselves.
These particular pictures may be art or garbage or, most likely, somewhere in-between (exactly where in-between would vary with the viewer, as usual); I haven't seen ANY myself. But to "ridicule" a blind person for trying photography (particularly since it is cheap and chemical-free) is not politically incorrect, it's just insensitive and narrow-minded.
Blind people use computers, the internet, musical instruments, and all kinds of other stuff. Using a digital camera is easy, as you point out a tow year-old can do that. Using your brain to ensure that a particular image is captured is the hard part, but brains are able to get by without eyes amazingly well. |
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06/27/2003 12:20:51 AM · #28 |
Originally posted by stephan:
@dacrazyrn: I honestly don't understand why you accuse me of being overly PC or whatever just because I think it's not nice to make fun of the blind man. Strange thing is that some sentences later you try to excuse your rudeness by saying that it actually would be more PC to make fun of him because of equal treatment. So you make fun of all people? Do you have many friends? ;-) I didn't say it's not cool to make fun of him because he's blind. I said it because I think we (me anyway) know next to nothing from him and his photography. We didn't even see a single photo from him. |
I believe I started that with "People," not Stephan. And yes, i have friends. And I work in an ER where I am exposed to many different people. The red, the white, the black, the brown, the yellow, the purple, the good, the bad, the ugly, the drunk, the drugged, the assholes, the psychos, and the dead, etc, etc.
The point apparently was missed. Put the pictures up somewhere (like here or DPCPrints or any other site), with the anonymity of challenges, and what happens? But, say they were shot by a blind person, and they are worthy to have there own exhibition?
It is interesting, yes, but what I am saying is, if you just saw these pictures without any background about it...how would you feel about them?
I would like to see them. And I bet there are some good ones, too. I know...I get lucky sometimes, too.
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06/27/2003 12:43:52 AM · #29 |
Originally posted by Journey:
Well, folks, why not do a shoot with your eyes closed and shoot based on hearing interesting sounds. And then submit that to the Speed challenge. Best of luck, since you're going to need it :) You could also submit it to the letter B and title it Blindly Taken, doubt you would get brownie points for that though from the voters.
I'm with Jimmy and Jak on this one. |
I think if we had a challenge like this, people would cheat. ;-)
You all are to funny.
If you notice the sun mag. is part of it,I think!? Isn't that like the enquirer magazine?
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06/27/2003 09:29:35 AM · #30 |
Originally posted by dacrazyrn:
I believe I started that with "People," not Stephan. |
Yes, this includes me, doesn't it? And but by posting it to this thread you meant me more specifically, too.
Originally posted by dacrazyrn:
And I work in an ER where I am exposed to many different people. The red, the white, the black, the brown, the yellow, the purple, the good, the bad, the ugly, the drunk, the drugged, the assholes, the psychos, and the dead, etc, etc. |
Hey my fellow I worked there too. But only for a year, because it was my alternative civilian service. Certainly was a big experience for me!
Originally posted by dacrazyrn:
Put the pictures up somewhere (like here or DPCPrints or any other site), with the anonymity of challenges, and what happens? But, say they were shot by a blind person, and they are worthy to have there own exhibition? |
Shot by a blind person with the intent of visualising what he hears, yes. As I tried to explain above (or below, depending on your forum preferences) there is more to a photo for me than just the picture itself. That's why I always was for showing the "photographers details" here on DPC. But that's another story... ;-)
Originally posted by dacrazyrn:
It is interesting, yes, but what I am saying is, if you just saw these pictures without any background about it...how would you feel about them? |
I didn't see any pictures yet, but probably not with the same interest as with knowing the background. But why disconnect the picture and it's background?
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06/27/2003 09:43:36 AM · #31 |
I think everybody is giving this guy way too much credit. He uses a fully automatic camera, has no technical photographical skill, and sells snapshots, taken haphazardly at whatever makes a noise, as art. I think this is just another perfect example of a really clever person, using human sympathy to sell junk to suckers. Why do you think they do not show any of his photographs? Could it be that they are decidedly ordinary?
This is not art. This is just a blind guy getting people to fork out cash because they feel sorry for him. Can't say I blame him, at least he's selling his work :)
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06/27/2003 11:39:28 AM · #32 |
Originally posted by Martus:
I think everybody is giving this guy way too much credit. He uses a fully automatic camera, has no technical photographical skill, and sells snapshots, taken haphazardly at whatever makes a noise, as art. I think this is just another perfect example of a really clever person, using human sympathy to sell junk to suckers. Why do you think they do not show any of his photographs? Could it be that they are decidedly ordinary?
This is not art. This is just a blind guy getting people to fork out cash because they feel sorry for him. Can't say I blame him, at least he's selling his work :) |
Yes, Martus, you got it. And because of saying so, you have now joined the ranks of Insensitive People.
If the blind guy wants to make pictures, power to him. If he makes a million pictures, chances are a few of them will come out alright. That's not because of art, that's because of probability theory.
I have decided not to flush away anymore the toilet paper i use. Am going to work them into collages. And just because i do that, you, the viewer, must realize that there is significance to it. You'll think even more of it, if you just realize how artistically challenged i am and that i have never found any other way to 'express myself'. |
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06/27/2003 01:32:09 PM · #33 |
i work with a woman who thinks she's a photographer. but she cannot focus her camera well because her eyesight is too poor, so she has a lot of OOF shots.
should i think she is brave for trying, and praise her work and buy it for lots of money, just because she can't see very well? especially if it's not particularly interesting?
would you be more interested in my work if you found out that i have no hands and that i operate my camera with my mouth?
i dont think anyone is trying to be insensitive. I think that some people think that a person shouldnt be celebrated JUST because they have a handicap. Encouraged, yes. But celebrated only because of the mere fact of them having a disability, no. Yes, it's a good story, but is the photography interesting? (We don't know).
Whether physically or mentally handicapped, merit of result should always be the ultimate factor, IMHO.
Thanks for the interesting discussions :) ..
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06/27/2003 02:16:56 PM · #34 |
A person can have all the money he or she needs plus cameras and accessories but you cant buy yourself a good eye for photography.
People with no skill whatsoever have told me that they are going to take photography courses over the summer but photography courses and classes are for those people who have the talent and want to improve on it, not acquire it.
My Portfolio
Message edited by author 2003-06-27 14:19:16. |
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06/27/2003 10:15:04 PM · #35 |
@Martus, Journey, magnetic9999: Grrr... you seem to ignore my point and keep telling me strange reasons why I'm "giving this guy way too much credit" or celebrate him "only because of the mere fact of them having a disability". I don't know with whom you try to argue.. nobody here said something like that!
All I said is that I think the idea of a blind man to photograph what he hears is interesting.
If you don't agree then fine. But somehow people feel it's necessary to interpret more into that. And you do this in a mean way. Martus accuses him to rip people off (where from do you know that he's even selling his work?). Journey compares his photography with toilet paper and that his photos can't be called art (so what exactly is art?) because that are just snapshots.
I'm really amazed. You know next to nothing about this guy and his photos, but have a negative default attitude that I wonder what you think about me? Ah, yes, I'm the PC preaching idiot who forks out cash to his toilet paper only because I feel so sorry for him. Gosh, you're all so smart!
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06/27/2003 10:39:39 PM · #36 |
sorry if i seemed mean. not my intention. yes, i can see how one would find it interesting. it is however, also interesting to discuss the validity of this artform and the relative merits of a) this approach, b) his results, and c), in a general sense of 'product' vs. 'process'. I.e. does an unusual set of process based circumstances add 'validity' to the product. However, none of that discussion on my part was intended to slight anyone. I do applaud this guy for having the guts to pursue his direction in the face of such strong skepticism.
Originally posted by stephan:
@Martus, Journey, magnetic9999: Grrr... you seem to ignore my point and keep telling me strange reasons why I'm "giving this guy way too much credit" or celebrate him "only because of the mere fact of them having a disability". I don't know with whom you try to argue.. nobody here said something like that!
All I said is that I think the idea of a blind man to photograph what he hears is interesting.
If you don't agree then fine. But somehow people feel it's necessary to interpret more into that. And you do this in a mean way. Martus accuses him to rip people off (where from do you know that he's even selling his work?). Journey compares his photography with toilet paper and that his photos can't be called art (so what exactly is art?) because that are just snapshots.
I'm really amazed. You know next to nothing about this guy and his photos, but have a negative default attitude that I wonder what you think about me? Ah, yes, I'm the PC preaching idiot who forks out cash to his toilet paper only because I feel so sorry for him. Gosh, you're all so smart! |
Message edited by author 2003-06-27 23:37:55.
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06/27/2003 10:50:29 PM · #37 |
Stephan, you seem to be missing the point that you can take the work he does at face value (it might be mildly interesting in context, but I doubt it) and see the humour in it as well.
Seriously, though, it isn't really art in a true sense as he's not representing how he experiences the world, is he? He's just guessing. He's photographing things which MIGHT seem interesting to him. In reality, it's just going to be some random, poorly framed shots of street scenes.
In all seriousness, I'd much rather see the work of someone who sees something interesting and captures it, rather than hearing something interesting, guessing it might look interesting, and attempting to photograph it. It's just not a process which can yield great results. Would you record something that looks good if you were deaf, and then play it back for other people? I'm sorry, but it's just weak. There's nothing more to say. He's not involved fully in his own art form as he has no way of making a statement which he can validate. His friends pick out the 'better ones' and therefore it's not really his own work.
Originally posted by stephan:
@Martus, Journey, magnetic9999: Grrr... you seem to ignore my point and keep telling me strange reasons why I'm "giving this guy way too much credit" or celebrate him "only because of the mere fact of them having a disability". I don't know with whom you try to argue.. nobody here said something like that!
All I said is that I think the idea of a blind man to photograph what he hears is interesting.
If you don't agree then fine. But somehow people feel it's necessary to interpret more into that. And you do this in a mean way. Martus accuses him to rip people off (where from do you know that he's even selling his work?). Journey compares his photography with toilet paper and that his photos can't be called art (so what exactly is art?) because that are just snapshots.
I'm really amazed. You know next to nothing about this guy and his photos, but have a negative default attitude that I wonder what you think about me? Ah, yes, I'm the PC preaching idiot who forks out cash to his toilet paper only because I feel so sorry for him. Gosh, you're all so smart! |
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06/27/2003 11:03:30 PM · #38 |
i wanna see a blind person try a flower macro...that should end this discussion
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06/27/2003 11:03:50 PM · #39 |
| It has been more than mildly humorous to me just listening to everybody else. |
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06/27/2003 11:18:52 PM · #40 |
i'd like to see you do it (properly that is with a point and shoot mr. d-10)achiral.
"Two things are infinite: the universe and human stupidity; and I'm not sure about the the universe." |
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06/27/2003 11:35:09 PM · #41 |
Originally posted by achiral:
i wanna see a blind person try a flower macro...that should end this discussion |
In a thread of stupid comments, this is probably the winner! Why would the guy try a flower macro? He shoots stuff that makes noise, or perhaps you don't read too well.
And by the way, this guy and his friends don't claim in the article that this is "art". That was a fantasy started by someone on this thread. In other words, you've been talking to yourselves again, and not to the facts of the case.
I tell you, this thread -- which I started as a lighthearted discussion -- has shown me just how mean-spirited and unpleasant many of you are. I'm sick of it and can't be bothered to waste any more of my time in these forums. I'm way too busy selling my photographs.
Good luck with your cynicism and small-mindedness -- it will serve you well in the New World Order.
Message edited by author 2003-06-27 23:43:37.
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06/28/2003 12:20:26 AM · #42 |
Originally posted by Jak:
Originally posted by achiral:
i wanna see a blind person try a flower macro...that should end this discussion |
In a thread of stupid comments, this is probably the winner! Why would the guy try a flower macro? He shoots stuff that makes noise, or perhaps you don't read too well.
And by the way, this guy and his friends don't claim in the article that this is "art". That was a fantasy started by someone on this thread. In other words, you've been talking to yourselves again, and not to the facts of the case.
I tell you, this thread -- which I started as a lighthearted discussion -- has shown me just how mean-spirited and unpleasant many of you are. I'm sick of it and can't be bothered to waste any more of my time in these forums. I'm way too busy selling my photographs.
Good luck with your cynicism and small-mindedness -- it will serve you well in the New World Order. |
your mind is so open that it has closed to reality and entered the twilight zone
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06/28/2003 12:22:10 AM · #43 |
Originally posted by jbruno1397:
i'd like to see you do it (properly that is with a point and shoot mr. d-10)achiral.
"Two things are infinite: the universe and human stupidity; and I'm not sure about the the universe." |
Flower Macro With a Point and Shoot
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06/28/2003 12:23:53 AM · #44 |
like i said i'd like to see you do it
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06/28/2003 12:28:09 AM · #45 |
Originally posted by jbruno1397:
like i said i'd like to see you do it |
are you blind too? jk, man...no one around here gets a joke.
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06/28/2003 12:32:02 AM · #46 |
i know the joke and your it .
"Great spirits have often encountered violent opposition from weak minds."
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06/28/2003 12:36:07 AM · #47 |
Originally posted by jbruno1397:
i know the joke and your it .
"Great spirits have often encountered violent opposition from weak minds." |
stop smoking weed
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06/28/2003 12:44:49 AM · #48 |
Jak, if he's exhibiting it what else could it be considered but art? You've gone and posted a bit about a blind photographer and then since complained that we're not taking it seriously. Good God, man, what did you expect? My initial post was clearly steeped in sarcasm and I can see that it went over at least a few heads entirely. Too much coffee at work, perhaps...been there myself. Still, you're being just as inflexible by refusing to see that the notion of a blind photographer is going to provoke some silliness. To leave due to a few flip comments is indicative of an oversensitivity which will serve you no better in this 'new world order'...
Just a hunch...but from the look of things you're living somewhere west of Thurlow. I used to be a Westender myself, I'm over from time to time. Perhaps a pint or two some time on the Fox and Firkin patio will smooth things over somewhat.
James.
Originally posted by Jak:
Originally posted by achiral:
i wanna see a blind person try a flower macro...that should end this discussion |
In a thread of stupid comments, this is probably the winner! Why would the guy try a flower macro? He shoots stuff that makes noise, or perhaps you don't read too well.
And by the way, this guy and his friends don't claim in the article that this is "art". That was a fantasy started by someone on this thread. In other words, you've been talking to yourselves again, and not to the facts of the case.
I tell you, this thread -- which I started as a lighthearted discussion -- has shown me just how mean-spirited and unpleasant many of you are. I'm sick of it and can't be bothered to waste any more of my time in these forums. I'm way too busy selling my photographs.
Good luck with your cynicism and small-mindedness -- it will serve you well in the New World Order. |
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06/28/2003 01:33:24 AM · #49 |
Just a reminder that this is a photography discussion thread, not a rant thread. Please moderate yourselves if you don't want it done for you.
Your opinions and ideas about photography are relevant and welcome here. Personal attacks and general nastiness are not. |
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06/28/2003 04:14:59 AM · #50 |
once I bought a painting done by an elephant. It sucked, but since it was done by an elephant I thought it was cool.
Pedro
ps I don't think she went to art college, but i can't confirm that.
pps No, there is no point to what i just wrote. i just thought you might be interested to know about my elephant painting buying ways.
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