coyotes.. misconceptions - DPChallenge Forums

Canon EF 100mm f/2.8 USM Macro

02/06/2007 08:23:36 PM · #1

Another thread was started about the loss of a coyote that

ellamay had been invested in watching.

So as to not take away from her thread thread i've started this one because education is something I'm passionate about when it comes to wildlife.

david ey had this to say about something I commented on: I lost two highly trained cow dogs to a pack of five coyotes. Killed right before my eyes. I shot one of them but the others got away, free to ravage my cattle another day.

Shecoya....you better do more research.

I said they take out pets.. yes when they kill in a pack even highly trained cow dogs. I made some generalist statement saying that they dont kill cows or calves.. because typically they don't.

Most coyotes do not kill calves, and many farmers have raised cattle for years without any problem and have had coyotes around. So here is some research which backs up what i've been taught by those who study and have made their lives work about studying the habits and behaviours of coyotes.

"Coyotes seen in and around calving pastures usually are not a cause for alarm. Some may be attracted to calving cows by the smell. After the calves are born, coyotes may clean up the afterbirth and eat the rich colostrum manure left by the newborns while leaving the calves alone.

Occasionally, a coyote or a family of coyotes may kill young calves to feed their pups. Most healthy calves killed by coyotes are less than a week old and have been left alone by their mothers. Cows often leave the main herd when they give birth. The newborn calf becomes vulnerable to predators when its mother leaves it to seek food and water. When the cow rejoins the herd or the calf is at least 10 days old, the danger from coyotes is usually over.

Just after calving, a cow may be too weak to drive coyotes away from its calf. Coyotes occasionally kill calves during the birthing process. In some cases, if coyotes find a cow having a long, hard labor, they may prey upon the calf while it is protruding from the cow, sometimes mutilating the mother in the process.

Coyotes may kill a weak and sick calf, especially if the cow is weak and unable to defend it. Calves that have scours or other diseases are especially vulnerable to coyote attacks. Sometimes it may appear that a coyote has killed a calf, but instead it was just feeding on one that died from natural causes.

Good animal husbandry practices can help reduce calf losses. First, it is important to know when cows are going to calve. Young cows or mature ones that have not been good mothers in the past should be watched closely. When a cow has a calf away from the herd, it should be fed and watered so it doesn't have to leave its calf alone. Sometimes cows can be brought close to the farmhouse until their calves are old enough and vigorous enough to be turned out with the rest of the herd.

Guard animals also can provide protection to cows that are calving. These trained animals bond with livestock but are aggressive to wild dogs and coyotes. Guard animals lose their effectiveness, however, if the cows go off by themselves to calve.

Not all coyotes kill sheep. Coyotes often make routine trips through a sheep pasture without killing sheep. Coyotes that kill sheep prefer lambs to larger mature ewes. Occasionally, two or three coyotes collaborate in bringing down a large ewe. In these cases, the wounds resemble those made by a dog because of the difficulty that 25- to 30-pound coyotes have in pulling down such a large animal.

Coyotes are more likely to kill lambs during June and July when they are feeding pups. They usually kill one sheep at a time and feed on it until it is devoured.

A coyote looking for food approaches a flock of sheep much like a border collie. When a lamb breaks away from the flock, the coyote runs beside it and sinks its upper canine teeth just behind the ear and its lower canine teeth in the throat.

Coyotes often get blamed for livestock injuries and deaths caused by wild or domestic free-running dogs. Here's how to tell if a coyote or a dog is causing the damage.

Coyotes:

* usually go for an animal's throat.
* do not chase cattle.
* do not kill larger calves or grown cattle.
* usually kill one animal at a time and feed on it.
* on rare occasions bite the tails off young calves. These "bob-tailed" calves usually survive.
* on rare occasions hamstring a larger calf or deer and feed on the still-living animal.

Dogs:

* attack wherever they can get a hold on the animal - often the hindquarters.
* chase cattle until the livestock become overheated or stressed.
* kill or injure several or all the livestock in an area u usually abandon their kill without feeding on it.
* chew on legs, ears and tails and often mangle the animals rather than killing them.
* leave dead animals over a large area where the pack chased them.
* usually make indiscriminate wounds all over the animal but most often in the rear area.
* sometimes kill or maim larger pigs.
* leave deep gashes, slashes and other wounds.

So yes.. its possible.. but typically rare... and they are often blamed for the acts of other predators.

Spork99

OM System OM-1

02/06/2007 09:10:57 PM · #2

Originally posted by Shecoya:

Coyotes:

* do not chase cattle.
* do not kill larger calves or grown cattle.

This contradicts my personal observations.

David Ey

Nikon D80

Nikon AF Micro-Nikkor 60mm f2.8D

02/06/2007 09:15:10 PM · #3

mine too

CEJ

Canon EF-S 18-200mm f/3.5-5.6 IS

02/06/2007 09:34:10 PM · #4

mine as well...as seen right here on the farms in the neighborhood. Sheep too. So many that farmers around here no longer raise sheep.

cpanaioti

Canon EF 70-300mm f/4.5-5.6 DO IS USM

02/06/2007 09:40:16 PM · #5

Wild animals, when their habitat is encroached on, will start to go after whatever is available, especially in times when their usual prey is scarce.

02/06/2007 09:42:26 PM · #6

Are you absolutely sure they were coyotes? Not wolves or wild dogs? An animal the size and weight of a coyote 25 to 30 pounds would be hard pressed to get a healthy calf.. let alone a full sized cow. I am struggling to see how its possible. Unless, which btw is very common that you are mistaking coyotes for other animals.

read on:

Yes. Coyote, wolves, bears, mountain lions, foxes, eagles, hawks, wild pigs, dogs, feral cats, and ravens kill lambs, sheep, kids, goats, calves, foals and other livestock. The losses can be substantial. In some ranch areas, losses to predators, primarily from coyote, but also from wolves, bears, mountain lions, lynx, bobcats, wolverines, eagles, and hawks are often the difference between profit and serious losses for sheep raisers. Now that coyote have spread throughout all 48 lower states, Canada and Mexico, farm flocks, including flocks in semi-rural areas, are beginning to suffer significant predation losses from coyote. Predator statistics are available to document the damage in some areas, and there are procedures to evaluate the predation on livestock and wildlife. Because large predators like bears and wolves can carry off their prey and consume prey without leaving evidence, official statistics may not reveal the full extent of losses to predators.

Aren't many of these losses really from dogs or coydogs?

There is little evidence that coyote cross-breed with dogs in the wild. Dogs, wolves and coyote are genetically close, but for behavior reasons coyote Ã� dog crosses are unlikely in the wild. Much damage attributed to coydogs is probably due to domestic and feral dogs.

It is usually not difficult to identify whether an attack was by dogs or coyote. The appearance of the coyote is distinctive, with a long snout, erect ears, and a bushy tail. Their fur and stature give them the appearance of being larger than they are; typically, a mature coyote weighs 9-16 kg. (20-35 lbs), with the males generally about 2 kg (4.5 lbs) larger than the females. Western coyote are generally smaller and reddish; the eastern coyote can be a slightly larger animal, and range from black to grey/brown to strawberry blond to white. There is some evidence of coyote crossing with red wolves, which may account for the larger size of the eastern coyote. Coyote are efficient predators. Eastern coyote usually hunt alone at night. They select their victims carefully, singling out a weak member of the flock, often a sheep with a limp or a lamb. They kill efficiently and eat selectively, making an almost surgical opening and taking innards first. In the case of small lambs, they will carry away the victim. Even if they return to an undisturbed carcass, they will remove flesh methodically. Western coyote, on open range, may hunt in packs, especially for deer or cattle.

By contrast, dogs frequently attack in packs, and whether single or in a pack, they tend to run through a flock, maiming as many animals as they can catch. Animals that are not maimed or killed may be in shock from being chased. Feral dogs can be vicious in their attacks, bringing down ponies, llamas and other pets.

If you see animals scouting your flock and are not sure whether they are coyote or dogs, look for footprints or scat. Dog footprints are round and all four claw marks are visible; coyote tracks are distinctly oval and only the front two claw marks are visible. Both coyote and dogs frequently defecate near a kill: dog feces are essentially recycled Alpo; coyote scat is usually stringy from undigested fur, bones, feathers, and vegetable matter, and distinctly elongated.
I found a dead sheep [calf, goat]; how do I identify the killer?

Predators have distinctive styles. It is worth examining the carcass, both to decide on future protective measures, and because you may in some instances be eligible for compensation. For ranchers suffering large-scale predation, there are systematic predation evaluation procedures.
Coyote

Coyote kill by strangulation and/or by severing the jugular vein. They attack the throat just behind the jaw and ear, clamping down on the animal's windpipe, and leaving puncture wounds below the lower jaw. Bleeding from a severed jugular vein may be subdermal. A small coyote can kill a large sheep or calf, and the process is silent; the victim cannot bleat or make noise with its throat shut. Typically, the coyote will roam around the flock, waiting for a straggler or a lamb with insufficient flocking instinct, sometimes a large, strong lamb, that tries to run. Or coyote will wait by a calving cow and snatch the newborn calf before the cow is on her feet again. Western coyote, especially in northern areas where the stock are concentrated, will often attack calving cows in packs, and wait for the afterbirth in preference to the calves. Coyote will often drag a carcass to a quiet area, and follow a distinctive eating pattern. They make an almost surgical opening in the thorax, consuming the heart, lungs, liver, and internal organs, except the stomach. They sometimes return later to pick at bones or haunches.
Wolves

Wolves are usually organized pack hunters, and may leave many dead. Unlike dogs, they usually eat what they kill. In a typical wolf attack on cattle, the first bites are at the base of the tail (the wolf grabs the vulva). The second and third bites are in the flanks, generally both sides. The wolves may begin eating the cow before it has bled to death. Wolves typically immobilize a horse by grabbing the ham string. Wolves have an uncanny ability to spot the slightest limp or other weakness when they are selecting prey. Two yearling wolves can bring down a large cow elk; even healthy domestic livestock is little challenge to a wolf. They can also clear high fences and may have little fear of guard dogs. Healthy wolves in the wild do not attack humans; there have been instances of wolves conditioned to humans attacking children or other vulnerable individuals.
Dogs

Dogs typically will attack many victims in a flock. The characteristic bite marks are on the flanks, rear legs, backs, or rear ends of the animals. Sometimes a pack of dogs will concentrate on the head of a victim like a pony or llama. The victims often carry multiple wounds, and frequently no portion of the animal is eaten. Sheep have been known to die from exhaustion or shock after being chased by dogs. An attack by a juvenile coyote may resemble a dog attack. Because they are smaller and less experienced, juvenile coyote tend to grab anything they can get â�� a leg, a back end, even an ear â�� leaving behind a severely injured and traumatized victim.
Bear

A bear leaves distinctive tracks and scat, and will generally maul the entire carcass, peeling back the skin, and eating the meat. Tom Tomsa of the Pennsylvania Animal Damage Control says, `Basically, it looks like a truck ran over the sheep when a bear gets done with it.'
Bobcat & Cougar

Bobcat kills have claw marks on the carcass and subcutaneous hemorrhaging. Mountain lion kills exhibit tooth punctures, usually about two inches apart, and claw marks on the neck or shoulders. Lion and bobcat kills are often dragged some distance from the point of attack and partially or completely covered with twigs, dirt, and leaves.
Feral Cats

Feral cats take lambs as they are being born, sometimes damaging the ewe at the same time. They have been reported as a considerable problem in Australian flocks.
Raptors

Eagle talons leave distinctive puncture marks. Unlike a bear kill, the skeleton is intact; the head and neck remain attached. An eagle will frequently feed on the brain of a kill, along with meat from other portions of the carcass. Turkey vultures and buzzards are sometimes seen near a freshly dead lamb, but they are carrion-eaters, not predators; their relatively weak beaks and lack of talons leaves them incapable of grasping and killing prey; keyhole-shaped wounds in the head of a lamb are characteristic of turkey vultures. Turkey vultures and other carrion-eating birds are protected by law, and for good reason: by consuming carrion they prevent the spread of disease. Ravens will peck the head of an animal, then gouge out the eyes, ultimately killing the animal by fracturing the skull. Magpies have also been known to peck at the back of a sheep, just ahead of the pelvis, until the body cavity is open. Black-headed buzzards peck the eyes out of nannies and ewes when they are kidding/lambing, steal the newborn, and return for the carrion when the ewe or nanny dies.

cpanaioti

Canon EF 70-300mm f/4.5-5.6 DO IS USM

02/06/2007 09:44:54 PM · #7

I didn't think coyotes hung out in packs, just pairs with pups. (I've been wrong before though)

ellamay

Canon EOS-1D Mark II

Canon EF 100-400mm f/4.5-5.6L IS

02/06/2007 09:45:56 PM · #8

coyotes also kill....mice, rats, moles... hmmm I guess we could use more of those in the world : )

(just a hint of sarcasm)

David Ey

Nikon D80

Nikon AF Micro-Nikkor 60mm f2.8D

02/06/2007 09:50:09 PM · #9

Whatever, go ahead and hug up the cute little critters. I'm gonna blow their precious heads off every time I can.

cpanaioti

Canon EF 70-300mm f/4.5-5.6 DO IS USM

02/06/2007 09:51:19 PM · #10

It's ignorance like this that threatened the wolf population.

Canon EF 24-70mm f/2.8L USM

02/06/2007 09:51:39 PM · #11

Originally posted by cpanaioti:

I didn't think coyotes hung out in packs, just pairs with pups. (I've been wrong before though)

They rarely hang in packs.. and typically hunt alone at night.

David Ey... nods.. yup thats about what I thought.

Niten

Canon EOS-20D

02/06/2007 10:01:35 PM · #12

They have just about wiped out the bobwhite quail in some areas here. They eat deer and cute rabbits as well. Its a shame someone killed one you were photographing. It doesn't make him evil though.

Pelts sell for around $16 last I heard. I wonder what items they use them for?

Canon EF 70-200mm f/2.8L USM

02/06/2007 10:05:23 PM · #13

laughing.. oh noooooooooo dont even get me started on fur.. lol ...

mutters and walks away shaking my head ;) lol

Ristyz

Apple iPhone 12 Pro

02/06/2007 10:24:42 PM · #14

Coyote behavior has been changing.

They never used to run in packs, now they do, frequently. They used to steer clear of houses, now they come in quite close. They didn't used to cross with dogs much, we have at least two coy-dogs that frequent out barn area. Both of them have coyote shape, coyote behavior, coyote fur texture but they are the WRONG color. One is smokey grey/black and the other is colored like a springer spaniel, white with liver colored spots. We think this is our fault, we had someone come shoot a coyote. We found out later if you get the alpha, you'd better get them all or the family will reproduce like crazy until a new alpha is born and grown. We think the coyote that was shot was the alpha and the female went in search of a mate to fix it. All she could find was a dog. So... now we have coy-dogs.

We've had to give up chickens because of them (and neighborhood dogs) We switched to Guinea hens, they can fly and run fast and are more alert than chickens. We call 'em "fast chickens" Coyotes will do anything for a chicken and they'll leave with it, dogs will joy kill all the chickens. (One day one got 8! I caught them in the act)

There are more of them than 10-15 years ago. I know, I know, lots of people will try to tell me they are moving here as they get pushed out of other places by housing. I live along a habitated faming valley that is surrounded in either side by millions of acres of BLM and Indian reservation. There has been some development in the valley but NONE in the surrounding land. They are NOT getting pushed out of anywhere, the population has increased and they are coming HERE! Coyotes used to come & get to our place in the early mornings or late evening. It was this way for years, occasionally a chicken would disappear or we would see them. The coyotes are more bold than they used to be. Now they will come up into the barn at HIGH NOON with people standing there. If you move towards them they will run off. It is not due to a lack of rabbits or pocket gophers.... we have too many of those right now too. They are everywhere. It doesn't seem to be related to rain or drought, been through extremes of that and normal years lately.

There are definitely more dead on the area highways than ever before too. Even in REALLY remote areas where lack of habitat is of 0 concern.

I have talked to a few people (farmers mostly)that have lived here for much longer than I have and they agree, there seem to be more than ever in habitited areas and they are getting more bold. Now I'm gonna talk to more ranchers and see what they have to say. I find the coyote situation very interesting. I like watching them too.

ellamay

Canon EOS-1D Mark II

Canon EF 100-400mm f/4.5-5.6L IS

02/06/2007 10:49:38 PM · #15

It's ignorance like this that threatened the wolf population.

if we had not killed all the wolves, we would have a natural predator left to manage the coyotes.

We humans are so smart.

Niten

Canon EOS-20D

Canon EF 24-70mm f/2.8L USM

02/06/2007 11:01:34 PM · #16

Next thing you know you guys will want to repopulate Mountain Lions ;)

Brad

Olympus OM-D E-M1

Olympus 40-150mm f/2.8 PRO M.Zuiko

02/06/2007 11:05:58 PM · #17

Where my Mom lives in Arizona, just outside of Phoenix, the Coyotes wander the neighborhoods at night, usually alone, and stupid people that know that a small dog left outside could be their next meal, still do leave them out, and then have fits when nature runs it's course. The Coyotes actually are not even attempted to be kept away, as they keep the wild rabbit population in the valley under control.

Can anyone explain to me, why a Coyote (or whatever wild animal) has any less of a right to live on this planet than we do?
Please explain that to me - I've never understood it.

Hunting for survival is one thing, and not even under question here.

Spork99

OM System OM-1

Canon EF 100mm f/2.8 USM Macro

02/06/2007 11:45:16 PM · #18

Originally posted by Shecoya:

I'm sure.

I watched a coyote chasing my uncle's cattle through my scope before I dropped him. After I got close, I confirmed it was a coyote. It's not about killing them because I like it, it's about keeping the cattle safe. I do agree that wild dogs are much worse, but coyotes aren't just killing little rodents either.

I've also seen several of them take down a calf.

Message edited by author 2007-02-06 23:57:33.

BeeCee

Nikon D40

Nikon AF-S DX Zoom-Nikkor 18-55mm f/3.5-5.6 ED

02/06/2007 11:46:52 PM · #19

Originally posted by BradP:

Can anyone explain to me, why a Coyote (or whatever wild animal) has any less of a right to live on this planet than we do?
Please explain that to me - I've never understood it.

Hunting for survival is one thing, and not even under question here.

Yup, and when coyotes hunt for survival they get shot. Dogs hunt for fun, doing far more damage, yet folks still keep (and allow to run wild) dogs in rural areas.

*tries to cap steam escaping from ears*

Ristyz

Apple iPhone 12 Pro

Canon EF 70-200mm f/2.8L USM

02/06/2007 11:51:11 PM · #20

in NM it's legal to shoot any dog harassing livestock anytime.

We just took the 8 dead checkens back to the dogs owner and told 'em to tie them around thier necks for a few days.

It worked... they didn't much like seeing the 8 dead checkens in a box under thier nose... they fixed the fence.....

BeeCee

Nikon D40

Nikon AF-S DX Zoom-Nikkor 18-55mm f/3.5-5.6 ED

02/06/2007 11:53:48 PM · #21

Originally posted by Ristyz:

Coyotes are highly intelligent and adaptable. They learn quickly what is and isn't a threat, and what is or isn't an easy meal. Hell, none of us wants to work harder than we have to!

That's the biggest reason they won't go after anything big unless forced by circumstances; they would be expending a large amount of energy with a miniscule chance of success.

You mentioned that there are too many rabbits and pocket gophers right now. Well, that would explain, in large part, the numbers of coyotes. When food is plentiful bitches have larger litters than when food's scarce and more of the pups survive. When food supplies drop, so will coyote numbers.

So.... let's kill off all the coyotes, let the rodent numbers boom, moan about the subsequent crop damage etc, and watch nearly as much livestock be killed, just to discover it was mainly dog packs doing that part after all, shall we? :)

Ristyz

Apple iPhone 12 Pro

Canon EF 70-200mm f/2.8L USM

02/07/2007 12:05:28 AM · #22

Now where in my post did it say I was in favor of killing them? I did mention that we (my parents at the time, I lived elsewhere then) had a problematic one but that it actually created a bigger problem when it was exterminated. Lesson learned.

I LIKE to watch them, the changes in thier behavior interests me. We have been changing OUR behavior because of them. Giving away chickens and getting Guineas instead. (they are intrumental in keeping insect populations down, have to have the birds) The coyote population was ahead of the rodent population, however. Usually it follows the 10 year rabbit cycle, this time the coyote population booned first. Which interests me even more. I'm mosty curious about them, that said, I'm not against a rancher killing few that have become accustomed to getting the major livestock that they depend on to make a living. I dont' like to see animals killed, I'm for living with them as much as possible but I'm also practical.

Originally posted by BeeCee:

Originally posted by Ristyz:
Coyote behavior has been changing.

They never used to run in packs, now they do, frequently. They used to steer clear of houses, now they come in quite close. They didn't used to cross with dogs much, we have at least two coy-dogs that frequent out barn area. Both of them have coyote shape, coyote behavior, coyote fur texture but they are the WRONG color. One is smokey grey/black and the other is colored like a springer spaniel, white with liver colored spots. We think this is our fault, we had someone come shoot a coyote. We found out later if you get the alpha, you'd better get them all or the family will reproduce like crazy until a new alpha is born and grown. We think the coyote that was shot was the alpha and the female went in search of a mate to fix it. All she could find was a dog. So... now we have coy-dogs.

We've had to give up chickens because of them (and neighborhood dogs) We switched to Guinea hens, they can fly and run fast and are more alert than chickens. We call 'em "fast chickens" Coyotes will do anything for a chicken and they'll leave with it, dogs will joy kill all the chickens. (One day one got 8! I caught them in the act)

There are more of them than 10-15 years ago. I know, I know, lots of people will try to tell me they are moving here as they get pushed out of other places by housing. I live along a habitated faming valley that is surrounded in either side by millions of acres of BLM and Indian reservation. There has been some development in the valley but NONE in the surrounding land. They are NOT getting pushed out of anywhere, the population has increased and they are coming HERE! Coyotes used to come & get to our place in the early mornings or late evening. It was this way for years, occasionally a chicken would disappear or we would see them. The coyotes are more bold than they used to be. Now they will come up into the barn at HIGH NOON with people standing there. If you move towards them they will run off. It is not due to a lack of rabbits or pocket gophers.... we have too many of those right now too. They are everywhere. It doesn't seem to be related to rain or drought, been through extremes of that and normal years lately.

There are definitely more dead on the area highways than ever before too. Even in REALLY remote areas where lack of habitat is of 0 concern.

I have talked to a few people (farmers mostly)that have lived here for much longer than I have and they agree, there seem to be more than ever in habitited areas and they are getting more bold. Now I'm gonna talk to more ranchers and see what they have to say. I find the coyote situation very interesting. I like watching them too.

Coyotes are highly intelligent and adaptable. They learn quickly what is and isn't a threat, and what is or isn't an easy meal. Hell, none of us wants to work harder than we have to!

That's the biggest reason they won't go after anything big unless forced by circumstances; they would be expending a large amount of energy with a miniscule chance of success.

You mentioned that there are too many rabbits and pocket gophers right now. Well, that would explain, in large part, the numbers of coyotes. When food is plentiful bitches have larger litters than when food's scarce and more of the pups survive. When food supplies drop, so will coyote numbers.

So.... let's kill off all the coyotes, let the rodent numbers boom, moan about the subsequent crop damage etc, and watch nearly as much livestock be killed, just to discover it was mainly dog packs doing that part after all, shall we? :)

Canon EF 100mm f/2.8 USM Macro

02/07/2007 12:16:09 AM · #23

Originally posted by Spazmo99:

I'm sure.
I watched a coyote chasing my uncle's cattle through my scope before I dropped him. After I got close, I confirmed it was a coyote. It's not about killing them because I like it, it's about keeping the cattle safe. I do agree that wild dogs are much worse, but coyotes aren't just killing little rodents either.
I've also seen several of them take down a calf.

that really surprises me because as BeeCee just pointed out a lone coyote going after a cow is pretty much pointless they are too small to do much damage.. yes maybe chase the cow and stress them.. I see that point. Unless the cow is sick or the coyote is young and dumb (an empty belly soon teaches them what to chase and what not to).. its very rare that you would have witnessed that. Not saying you didnt..just that its rare. Also rare is coyotes hunting in a pack.. although not unheard of.. and again they would focus on the sick or weak.. I can see a pack trying to take down a calf..the odds are better.. but again it is something that isnt the norm.

Spork99

OM System OM-1

02/07/2007 12:17:18 AM · #24

Originally posted by BradP:

Can anyone explain to me, why a Coyote (or whatever wild animal) has any less of a right to live on this planet than we do?
Please explain that to me - I've never understood it.

So, if mice or rats invaded your house, you wouldn't set out traps or call an exterminator?

What about insects? Why should insects be any different from animals? Better not swat any flies or mosquitoes, or step on any ants.

How about germs? Don't they have rights too? Better throw out that disinfectant spray and for God's sake, stop showering and brushing your teeth, just think of all the innocent bacteria...