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02/05/2007 04:09:54 PM · #26 |
Originally posted by theSaj:
We all bleed red...that should be enough IMHO
(If we need to hate something for differences, we should simply hate Horshoe Crabs as they bleed green!) |
now these damn horseshoe crabs are gonna want their own cable channel and "green blood is pure blood" night at the local clubs. dammit! i hate green bloods! |
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02/05/2007 04:13:52 PM · #27 |
Ok ... let me add something here ...
My fathers side of the family is also from the Bahamas...in part of my research of my family tree I found that I had Scottish ancestors (yes I do look DAMN good in a kilt. I do own one in the clan tartan)
I think Sharpton Jackson and those other poverty pimps have done more to hurt race relations after the assisnation of Dr. King than they could even know.
I have a 7 year old that I have told often ... Your first identity is AMERICAN (right or wrong but that is another debate) and as an American you can do anything that you want regardless of what the povery pimps or the other TRUE racists say.
I very much believe that the race card is SO overplayed... but there are issues that still need to be addressed (like why the hell in these the oughts is this still an issue)
Is there a need for BHM - Yes - Until the education system seemlessly includes the CORRECT history of Blacks, Asians, Natives, Latins and other groups into the books.
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02/05/2007 04:26:23 PM · #28 |
Originally posted by theSaj:
We all bleed red...that should be enough IMHO
(If we need to hate something for differences, we should simply hate Horshoe Crabs as they bleed green!) |
Whoa, really? I have a horseshoe crab skeleton.
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02/05/2007 04:27:49 PM · #29 |
Originally posted by nomad469:
Is there a need for BHM - Yes - Until the education system seemlessly includes the CORRECT history of Blacks, Asians, Natives, Latins and other groups into the books. |
Does the education system include the incorrect history now?
edited to add:
How will BHM serve to make sure that Asians, Natives, Latins and other groups have "correct" history in the books? Will they all need their own month too?
Message edited by author 2007-02-05 16:40:18.
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02/05/2007 04:32:02 PM · #30 |
Originally posted by kdkaboom:
Originally posted by theSaj:
We all bleed red...that should be enough IMHO
(If we need to hate something for differences, we should simply hate Horshoe Crabs as they bleed green!) |
now these damn horseshoe crabs are gonna want their own cable channel and "green blood is pure blood" night at the local clubs. dammit! i hate green bloods! |
Should send them all back to Vulcan where they belong...!!! |
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02/05/2007 04:39:15 PM · #31 |
Originally posted by bigalpha:
Originally posted by nomad469:
Is there a need for BHM - Yes - Until the education system seemlessly includes the CORRECT history of Blacks, Asians, Natives, Latins and other groups into the books. |
Does the education system include the incorrect history now? |
yes, yes it does. in some parts, it ain't even funny what our kids think is truth. |
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02/05/2007 04:39:51 PM · #32 |
Originally posted by bigalpha:
Originally posted by nomad469:
Is there a need for BHM - Yes - Until the education system seemlessly includes the CORRECT history of Blacks, Asians, Natives, Latins and other groups into the books. |
Does the education system include the incorrect history now? |
Yep it does ... as well as incorrect or misrepresented history of the Native tribes, the American Revolution, WWI, WWII, The Cold War...Hell the Exploration of Columbus
That is not a "race based" position just a desire to have correct history taught.
Thats all
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02/05/2007 04:45:14 PM · #33 |
Originally posted by nomad469:
Originally posted by bigalpha:
Originally posted by nomad469:
Is there a need for BHM - Yes - Until the education system seemlessly includes the CORRECT history of Blacks, Asians, Natives, Latins and other groups into the books. |
Does the education system include the incorrect history now? |
Yep it does ... as well as incorrect or misrepresented history of the Native tribes, the American Revolution, WWI, WWII, The Cold War...Hell the Exploration of Columbus
That is not a "race based" position just a desire to have correct history taught.
Thats all |
Is it on purpose, or just that we don't know all the facts, and put it in as we know it?
Don't get me wrong, I'm with you; we should correctly represent all of history as it really was, not how we want it to be. Changing history books isn't going to happen by having BHM.
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02/05/2007 04:52:55 PM · #34 |
The only thing more laughable than expecting history to be honestly documented is expecting anyone short of university history majors to have the time and interest to study it in the detail required to really derive any meaning from it.
Elementary and High School history classes are a 'best of' at best. Sounds to me like you just want more of the highlights to include one color or another. What's the point really. |
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02/05/2007 05:12:27 PM · #35 |
Originally posted by routerguy666:
The only thing more laughable than expecting history to be honestly documented is expecting anyone short of university history majors to have the time and interest to study it in the detail required to really derive any meaning from it.
Elementary and High School history classes are a 'best of' at best. Sounds to me like you just want more of the highlights to include one color or another. What's the point really. |
Wrong answer... the point is if history was taught "without" the bias of one group over another BHM would not be needed.
I do not in any mannor say highlight one group over another just teach correct history not PC history
It may be the "best of" but what is being taught is not the correct version of the "best of"
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02/05/2007 05:16:11 PM · #36 |
You know, I was just having a discussion about racism with a friend of mine today. She was telling me that her neighbors are quite racist and I just can't believe people still think that way.
Black, white, Polish, Jewish, Male, Female, Old, Young... we are all humans. I don't care what your skin color is, where your family is from, or any of that... all that matters to me is that you are nice to me. I don't dislike anyone based on anything other than who you are as a person.
As far as this whole BHM, and BEt crap.... here is my thoughts. First of all... someone asked why don't we have a WHM? We do! All year! We celebrate presidents day, and whatever else... most of what we are taught in school is about WH. I don't see anything wrong with BHM. My only gripe is that where is Asian History Month? Or Polish History Month, or whatever. I think we need to do away with these "History Months" and teach more of it to our children in school. Or, have a Black History course taught in school.
I think people need to stop making special months, or "Asian only" nights at the bar.... why not have Human History Month? Or Human night at the bar? People... we are all people.... who gives a shit?
Ugh!
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02/05/2007 05:20:19 PM · #37 |
Originally posted by bigalpha:
Originally posted by nomad469:
Originally posted by bigalpha:
Originally posted by nomad469:
Is there a need for BHM - Yes - Until the education system seemlessly includes the CORRECT history of Blacks, Asians, Natives, Latins and other groups into the books. |
Does the education system include the incorrect history now? |
Yep it does ... as well as incorrect or misrepresented history of the Native tribes, the American Revolution, WWI, WWII, The Cold War...Hell the Exploration of Columbus
That is not a "race based" position just a desire to have correct history taught.
Thats all |
Is it on purpose, or just that we don't know all the facts, and put it in as we know it?
Don't get me wrong, I'm with you; we should correctly represent all of history as it really was, not how we want it to be. Changing history books isn't going to happen by having BHM. |
I think that a amout of it is on purpose. Or more correctly It has been taught for so long that it is "accepted" as truth when it actually isn't
Look at what is taught about say Columbus ... Fact is the dude was a bad navigator ended up in the Bahamas and thought he was in India... but our kids are taught that Columbus "discovered" America
Because to some (routerguy... stand down :) ) the more romantic story of this Spanish explorer "fit" beter into their view of what the world should be.
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02/05/2007 05:21:47 PM · #38 |
Originally posted by nsoroma79:
You know, I was just having a discussion about racism with a friend of mine today. She was telling me that her neighbors are quite racist and I just can't believe people still think that way.
Black, white, Polish, Jewish, Male, Female, Old, Young... we are all humans. I don't care what your skin color is, where your family is from, or any of that... all that matters to me is that you are nice to me. I don't dislike anyone based on anything other than who you are as a person.
As far as this whole BHM, and BEt crap.... here is my thoughts. First of all... someone asked why don't we have a WHM? We do! All year! We celebrate presidents day, and whatever else... most of what we are taught in school is about WH. I don't see anything wrong with BHM. My only gripe is that where is Asian History Month? Or Polish History Month, or whatever. I think we need to do away with these "History Months" and teach more of it to our children in school. Or, have a Black History course taught in school.
I think people need to stop making special months, or "Asian only" nights at the bar.... why not have Human History Month? Or Human night at the bar? People... we are all people.... who gives a shit?
Ugh! |
That is SO my point
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02/05/2007 05:23:45 PM · #39 |
Originally posted by bigalpha:
Originally posted by theSaj:
We all bleed red...that should be enough IMHO
(If we need to hate something for differences, we should simply hate Horshoe Crabs as they bleed green!) |
Whoa, really? I have a horseshoe crab skeleton. |
Whoa hardcore horseshoe hater... :-P
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02/05/2007 05:27:10 PM · #40 |
Originally posted by fotomann_forever:
Originally posted by bigalpha:
Originally posted by theSaj:
We all bleed red...that should be enough IMHO
(If we need to hate something for differences, we should simply hate Horshoe Crabs as they bleed green!) |
Whoa, really? I have a horseshoe crab skeleton. |
Whoa hardcore horseshoe hater... :-P |
get em up against the wall :)
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02/05/2007 05:32:13 PM · #41 |
Originally posted by nsoroma79:
You know, I was just having a discussion about racism with a friend of mine today. She was telling me that her neighbors are quite racist and I just can't believe people still think that way.
Black, white, Polish, Jewish, Male, Female, Old, Young... we are all humans. I don't care what your skin color is, where your family is from, or any of that... all that matters to me is that you are nice to me. I don't dislike anyone based on anything other than who you are as a person.
As far as this whole BHM, and BEt crap.... here is my thoughts. First of all... someone asked why don't we have a WHM? We do! All year! We celebrate presidents day, and whatever else... most of what we are taught in school is about WH. I don't see anything wrong with BHM. My only gripe is that where is Asian History Month? Or Polish History Month, or whatever. I think we need to do away with these "History Months" and teach more of it to our children in school. Or, have a Black History course taught in school.
I think people need to stop making special months, or "Asian only" nights at the bar.... why not have Human History Month? Or Human night at the bar? People... we are all people.... who gives a shit?
Ugh! |
You are absolutely right about us all being human beings. I agree with that 100%. Same with I only care if people are nice to me. The reason that it seems that WH is taught all year long is because (easy now) white people (white europeans, anyways) "settled" America. I know the Indians where here first. I also know that every other culture has had a hand in the sculpture of this fine country; and history should be taught correctly.
In order to stop the division of America, I feel that BET and BHM and all that jazz is bad. It's dividing certain people by race; what we don't want to happen.
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02/05/2007 05:32:40 PM · #42 |
Originally posted by nomad469:
Originally posted by fotomann_forever:
Originally posted by bigalpha:
Originally posted by theSaj:
We all bleed red...that should be enough IMHO
(If we need to hate something for differences, we should simply hate Horshoe Crabs as they bleed green!) |
Whoa, really? I have a horseshoe crab skeleton. |
Whoa hardcore horseshoe hater... :-P |
get em up against the wall :) |
*cough* It's not what it seems like! I found it!
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02/05/2007 05:33:24 PM · #43 |
Originally posted by nomad469:
I very much believe that the race card is SO overplayed... but there are issues that still need to be addressed (like why the hell in these the oughts is this still an issue)
Is there a need for BHM - Yes - Until the education system seemlessly includes the CORRECT history of Blacks, Asians, Natives, Latins and other groups into the books.
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I so agree. There sadly remain issues but I feel the real issues are often overlooked. I believe that everyone regardless of color who is in poverty should be given a helping hand to aid them up.
As for BHM. I am more for cultural sharing month. Have everyone go share their culture good and bad. We'd likely find a lot more common ground and common failing. I think the think that makes America strong is it's diverse background. Various hurts and successes. When we share and learn from each other we grow stronger.
I must confess, I feel that we've regressed since the 80's in many ways. We've improved things legally perhaps but in the hearts it's regressed. I was a young kid in the 80's and I was pretty much color blind until I was much older. It wasn't until I encountered all the racism and hatred in high school. It's just not being taught with understanding. It's good to know the successes of your ancestry (and their failings). But it often felt like being in class and hearing how evil I was just for being white, and then having to avoid back areas around school because after sitting thru a class explaining the past events it often seemed like I found myself surrounded by a bunch of people wanting revenge for that they never experienced.
We've reached a place where the youth are receiving this knowledge and expressing via hate. Forcing another child to sit in a segment of a bus because they learned it happened to Rosa Parks. Having to deal with a black youth every day on a bus trying to start a fight with you and asking him what you've done and being told "nothing...you're white...I want you for my slave".
SOMETHING'S WRONG WITH HOW WE'RE TEACHING
I truly believe I am not a racist, that said, I do have prejudices. If I see a loud noisy obnoxious group of white kids walking on the sidewalk downtown heading toward me I don't get too alarmed. I just move off to the side and let them pass. However, if I saw a loud noisy obnoxious group of black youths I'll cross to the other side of the road or enter a nearby store.
Is that racist? Sadly, it's trained response. I didn't always do that. But after being beat down and jumped a number of times for merely being "standing at bus stop while white" you learn you have to. Do you know how much I cried because I had to do that. I hate racism. :(
Likewise, not having suffered being profiled it's easy to not understand why many blacks are uncomfortable being pulled over by a police officer. As my old sensei used to say busted for "DWB" (Driving While Black) and he was a former police officer. Having just recently seen "Crash" there is a scene where a white police officer molests a black woman after pulling them over without due cause. My blood boiled at that scene. But it gives insight into why many in the african-american community have issues with being pulled over. Who wouldn't at that...
But I think many times it's viewed as racism when in truth I just find that many police officers have built up major egos and attitudes. I've had a couple of run-ins with obnoxiously rude officers. Now in my case the obvious issue was just rude unprofessional officers. However, if I were black, would I presuppose the reasons to be racial?
That said, to deny that their is racism and discrimination in today's world is foolish. But it's also important to remember it is not limited to any one group in society.
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02/05/2007 05:35:12 PM · #44 |
Originally posted by nsoroma79:
You know, I was just having a discussion about racism with a friend of mine today. She was telling me that her neighbors are quite racist and I just can't believe people still think that way.
Black, white, Polish, Jewish, Male, Female, Old, Young... we are all humans. I don't care what your skin color is, where your family is from, or any of that... all that matters to me is that you are nice to me. I don't dislike anyone based on anything other than who you are as a person.
As far as this whole BHM, and BEt crap.... here is my thoughts. First of all... someone asked why don't we have a WHM? We do! All year! We celebrate presidents day, and whatever else... most of what we are taught in school is about WH. I don't see anything wrong with BHM. My only gripe is that where is Asian History Month? Or Polish History Month, or whatever. I think we need to do away with these "History Months" and teach more of it to our children in school. Or, have a Black History course taught in school.
I think people need to stop making special months, or "Asian only" nights at the bar.... why not have Human History Month? Or Human night at the bar? People... we are all people.... who gives a shit?
Ugh! |
i'm with you, maaaan! i wish they would quit the "month" thing and just integrate actual global history into all classes - US history isn't *just* US history, it's the history of colonialism, religious persecution and freedom, industry, slavery, frickin' genocide... sigh, but how many 8 year olds could handle knowing what the $20 bill guy did to native americans?
i wish there were a way to supply the world with truth and have it not hurt too much.
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02/05/2007 05:40:58 PM · #45 |
Originally posted by nomad469:
Yep it does ... as well as incorrect or misrepresented history of the Native tribes, the American Revolution, WWI, WWII, The Cold War...Hell the Exploration of Columbus
That is not a "race based" position just a desire to have correct history taught.
Thats all |
No argument there....history education is half myth. There are so many little discrepancies and inaccuracies.
The famed quote of Nathan Hale "I regret that I have but one life to give for my country."
Except while taking a tour of Yale in my hometown of New Haven you find out a little bit of insight. Apparently, Nathan Hale never said such a statement. It was inscribed on a statue made in his honor. However, he was dead. So the statue is not even of Nathan Hale. The sculptist picked the most patriotic student at Yale to stand in as the model for the statue. He was reading a romance novel in which the character stated the above famed expression and insribed it on the statue's base. American mythology continues forward.
The problem is, we're starting to move centuries away and what really happened and what is myth become harder to differentiate. |
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02/05/2007 05:41:21 PM · #46 |
Originally posted by nsoroma79:
You know, I was just having a discussion about racism with a friend of mine today. She was telling me that her neighbors are quite racist and I just can't believe people still think that way.
Black, white, Polish, Jewish, Male, Female, Old, Young... we are all humans. I don't care what your skin color is, where your family is from, or any of that... all that matters to me is that you are nice to me. I don't dislike anyone based on anything other than who you are as a person.
As far as this whole BHM, and BEt crap.... here is my thoughts. First of all... someone asked why don't we have a WHM? We do! All year! We celebrate presidents day, and whatever else... most of what we are taught in school is about WH. I don't see anything wrong with BHM. My only gripe is that where is Asian History Month? Or Polish History Month, or whatever. I think we need to do away with these "History Months" and teach more of it to our children in school. Or, have a Black History course taught in school.
I think people need to stop making special months, or "Asian only" nights at the bar.... why not have Human History Month? Or Human night at the bar? People... we are all people.... who gives a shit?
Ugh! |
right on man!!! excellent post
Message edited by author 2007-02-05 17:41:49.
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02/05/2007 05:41:38 PM · #47 |
Originally posted by bigalpha:
Originally posted by nsoroma79:
You know, I was just having a discussion about racism with a friend of mine today. She was telling me that her neighbors are quite racist and I just can't believe people still think that way.
Black, white, Polish, Jewish, Male, Female, Old, Young... we are all humans. I don't care what your skin color is, where your family is from, or any of that... all that matters to me is that you are nice to me. I don't dislike anyone based on anything other than who you are as a person.
As far as this whole BHM, and BEt crap.... here is my thoughts. First of all... someone asked why don't we have a WHM? We do! All year! We celebrate presidents day, and whatever else... most of what we are taught in school is about WH. I don't see anything wrong with BHM. My only gripe is that where is Asian History Month? Or Polish History Month, or whatever. I think we need to do away with these "History Months" and teach more of it to our children in school. Or, have a Black History course taught in school.
I think people need to stop making special months, or "Asian only" nights at the bar.... why not have Human History Month? Or Human night at the bar? People... we are all people.... who gives a shit?
Ugh! |
You are absolutely right about us all being human beings. I agree with that 100%. Same with I only care if people are nice to me. The reason that it seems that WH is taught all year long is because (easy now) white people (white europeans, anyways) "settled" America. I know the Indians where here first. I also know that every other culture has had a hand in the sculpture of this fine country; and history should be taught correctly.
In order to stop the division of America, I feel that BET and BHM and all that jazz is bad. It's dividing certain people by race; what we don't want to happen. |
But ... lets face one thing ... there ARE cultural differences ... Force me to watch 5 mins of CMT I am ready to put a bullet directly into my brain pan (Actually force me to watch 5 mins of BET I might have the same result...I dont care for the "culture" that they push)
BUT I dont have a problem with those services...
I like Jazz I like New Age ... I dont like rap ... You may like Country ... thats all cool... the Special interest Channels do not bother me one bit...(I dont have to watch em)
The "Culture Month" idea I can really wrap my hands around ... I LIKE that idea...
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02/05/2007 05:44:41 PM · #48 |
Originally posted by theSaj:
Originally posted by nomad469:
I very much believe that the race card is SO overplayed... but there are issues that still need to be addressed (like why the hell in these the oughts is this still an issue)
Is there a need for BHM - Yes - Until the education system seemlessly includes the CORRECT history of Blacks, Asians, Natives, Latins and other groups into the books.
|
I so agree. There sadly remain issues but I feel the real issues are often overlooked. I believe that everyone regardless of color who is in poverty should be given a helping hand to aid them up.
As for BHM. I am more for cultural sharing month. Have everyone go share their culture good and bad. We'd likely find a lot more common ground and common failing. I think the think that makes America strong is it's diverse background. Various hurts and successes. When we share and learn from each other we grow stronger.
I must confess, I feel that we've regressed since the 80's in many ways. We've improved things legally perhaps but in the hearts it's regressed. I was a young kid in the 80's and I was pretty much color blind until I was much older. It wasn't until I encountered all the racism and hatred in high school. It's just not being taught with understanding. It's good to know the successes of your ancestry (and their failings). But it often felt like being in class and hearing how evil I was just for being white, and then having to avoid back areas around school because after sitting thru a class explaining the past events it often seemed like I found myself surrounded by a bunch of people wanting revenge for that they never experienced.
We've reached a place where the youth are receiving this knowledge and expressing via hate. Forcing another child to sit in a segment of a bus because they learned it happened to Rosa Parks. Having to deal with a black youth every day on a bus trying to start a fight with you and asking him what you've done and being told "nothing...you're white...I want you for my slave".
SOMETHING'S WRONG WITH HOW WE'RE TEACHING
I truly believe I am not a racist, that said, I do have prejudices. If I see a loud noisy obnoxious group of white kids walking on the sidewalk downtown heading toward me I don't get too alarmed. I just move off to the side and let them pass. However, if I saw a loud noisy obnoxious group of black youths I'll cross to the other side of the road or enter a nearby store.
Is that racist? Sadly, it's trained response. I didn't always do that. But after being beat down and jumped a number of times for merely being "standing at bus stop while white" you learn you have to. Do you know how much I cried because I had to do that. I hate racism. :(
Likewise, not having suffered being profiled it's easy to not understand why many blacks are uncomfortable being pulled over by a police officer. As my old sensei used to say busted for "DWB" (Driving While Black) and he was a former police officer. Having just recently seen "Crash" there is a scene where a white police officer molests a black woman after pulling them over without due cause. My blood boiled at that scene. But it gives insight into why many in the african-american community have issues with being pulled over. Who wouldn't at that...
But I think many times it's viewed as racism when in truth I just find that many police officers have built up major egos and attitudes. I've had a couple of run-ins with obnoxiously rude officers. Now in my case the obvious issue was just rude unprofessional officers. However, if I were black, would I presuppose the reasons to be racial?
That said, to deny that their is racism and discrimination in today's world is foolish. But it's also important to remember it is not limited to any one group in society. |
You rock !
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02/05/2007 06:15:25 PM · #49 |
Originally posted by routerguy666:
Children should be taught that what matters most in life is what you make of yourself. It doesn't matter where you come from, it doesn't matter what happened to the people before you. You are here now, and this is your opportunity to shape the world.
If everyone was taught that from the cradle, most of the baggage associated with race and religion would disappear.
An appreciation of 'culture' does nothing but reinforce a belief that there is some historical event or events that in some way defines who you are and how you relate to everyone else in the world. American blacks as slaves, Jews as a historically repressed religious minority, Shia or Sunni as the one sect with the 'true' religious point of view - you name the group and there is something in history that can be used to segregate them and cripple their point of view in the present. |
You're including nationality in this, right? Because if you include nationality, I'm with you, at least in principle.
However, the person or persons who created Black History Month knew that this wasn't the case. And they knew they couldn't change the history text books. So they did what they could. One step at a time.
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02/05/2007 06:18:47 PM · #50 |
Originally posted by bigalpha:
In order to stop the division of America, I feel that BET and BHM and all that jazz is bad. It's dividing certain people by race; what we don't want to happen. |
Hey, I like Jazz.
:P
But to go on, I think what you're saying is this. There's "Country Music Television" (white hick), "Lifetime" (women), "SciFi" (geek), "BET" (black).
It doesn't really fit. This then forces me to ask "well, what is 'black entertainment'" However, if I as a white man were to take any answer given and then go say "such and such is black entertainment" I would find myself labelled as a racist.
It is not fair to put someone in an untenable situation in which they have to walk on egg shells to avoid being demonized.
Hey, if it was the "Rythm and Soul" station focusing R&B, Soul, Funk music, etc. Then I'd know what it is. Perhaps "Urban" is a better description. If that is what they're focusing on. As it is BET is designed to be an unknowable/unapproachable entity by it's title. Which is a shame because that unknowing, unapproachableness, compounded by fear becomes the heartbeat of the racial divide.
But even still, it becomes too easy to declare a style exclusive to an ethnicity and then further divide.
The idea is to be inclusive while maintaining out ethnic influences so that they all add flavor to the "stew".
:)
Message edited by author 2007-02-05 18:23:38. |
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