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02/03/2007 03:36:39 AM · #76 |
Originally posted by srdanz:
And before you crucify me for ruining my daughter's life... |
Nah, wouldn't do that. If you were a bad parent, we likely wouldn't be having this discussion. :-)
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02/03/2007 04:08:44 AM · #77 |
Originally posted by srdanz:
[...] Asim, I appreciate your objective and professional input. Thanks for your explanation of BCG non-use here. |
no problem... i should also have added that anyone interpreting your PPD results, and the possible subsequent chest radiographs, has no right to make any value judgements. they should evaluate the data objectively, and determine whether you are positive, negative, or indeterminate requiring further evaluation. if it is negative, it is negative. true, the initial PPD read is a screening evaluation that many people are trained to read (including non-medical office workers), however the full interpretation of the PPD, integrating information about BCG, possible exposure, strength of your immune system is complex (as you have seen, since you apparently don't have the simple yes-no response). while the initial person reading most of the screening PPDs may not have all of that information, the physician supervising them has the training to interpret all of the information. and if a chest x-ray is needed, as will often be the case, the interpretation of that is a whole separate complexity... while most physicians can tell fairly easily if someone has a pneumonia or a large amount of fluid in their chest, the changes of TB can be much more subtle.
What does all of that mean? It means there's often an answer that, while fairly simple for those that deal with it regularly, is not the immediate yes-no that some people are used to. Apparently they can get frustrated with this. Regardless, they have no right to make you feel like any of this is your fault, or like there is anything out of the ordinary. Our radiology department reads dozens of chest x-rays every week for positive PPD, or indeterminite PPD + BCG... it is not out of the ordinary, just something that doesn't have the immediate answer that you can get holding your arm over the front desk at the office for 10 seconds. While it may create uncertainty in the eyes of the screener, or some bureaucrat sitting in an office somewhere, the supervising physician should hopefully consider this routine.
While it likely has, I hope that any negative experiences regarding TB screening hasn't soured your view of the medical system.
edit: typo
Message edited by author 2007-02-03 04:15:27. |
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02/03/2007 04:13:10 AM · #78 |
Originally posted by abroken1:
The CDC estimates that 9700 new diagnoses of cervical cancer will be made this year, and there are 300 million people in the US. If 95% of people 12 and up were having sex, wouldn't the prevalence be substantially closer to 100 million? |
No.. that makes the really bad assumption that everyone who has sex is going to get cervical cancer. It doesn't take into consideration that one must be female, exposed to one of the types of HPV that causes cervical cancer, and be one of the unfortunates that end up with it. Not all variants of HPV cause cervical cancer, and even the ones that do don't cause it 100% of the time. |
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02/03/2007 09:46:28 AM · #79 |
Originally posted by NstiG8tr:
Originally posted by scarbrd:
If you don't know Rick Perry now, you probably will soon. He's on the short list of possible VP candidates for the GOP in the next presidential election.
Just my 2 cents. |
Uh after this one, I think it will be a long time before you see another republican president from Texas. One could only hope so anyway. |
Watch out fot the Bush trifecta, Jeb will run one day, bet on it.
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02/03/2007 10:00:01 AM · #80 |
Originally posted by abroken1:
I certainly don't mean any disrespect for your experience, but my wife knew that I was abstinent before we got married. Abstinence is the ONLY 100% prevention, but just like any part of a relationship between two people, it takes both sides, not just one.
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No disrespect. At least you were honest with your wife. Unfortunantly, not everyone is. Wouldn't it be better to be safe than sorry? Especially when we are talking about cancer. Truth is, you simply never really know if the person you are talking to is lying. Like another poster said... maybe they are embarrassed to admit it.
So sad.
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02/03/2007 11:11:23 AM · #81 |
In a perfect world, everyone would abstain until marriage. In a perfect world there would be no divorce. In a perfect world nobody would feel the need to tell lies. In a perfect world, things such as rape and incest wouldn't exist.
In a perfect world, there would be no such thing as Cancer.
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02/03/2007 11:31:43 AM · #82 |
Originally posted by jenesis:
In a perfect world, everyone would abstain until marriage. In a perfect world there would be no divorce. In a perfect world nobody would feel the need to tell lies. In a perfect world, things such as rape and incest wouldn't exist.
In a perfect world, there would be no such thing as Cancer. |
I second that, unfortunately this is the imperfect world. Sound as if you and I have walked similar paths.
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02/03/2007 11:55:22 AM · #83 |
| While I think all approaches to beat cancer should be explored, I think requiring a vaccination should only be considered for vaccines that have already been thoroughly tested in large-scale voluntary usage. It's just very hard to know how safe a vaccine is until it's been in public usage for a while. The LYMErix vaccine is a particularly horrendous story from the recent past about how a vaccine can turn out to have nasty side-effects that don't surface in FDA testing. Try googling lymerix, or check out this document for examples of victim stories. |
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02/03/2007 12:00:48 PM · #84 |
thats a little creepy to me.
i can see the logic, but it's still kind of creepy.
edit: if you take the cost of rolling out this vaccine to that many girls, and the costs of treating isolated cases of cervical cancer, i'd bet you'd spend less on treatment. not to say i want any girls to have to deal with cancer, of course not. but the financial argument isn't washing with me.
Message edited by author 2007-02-03 12:02:18. |
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02/03/2007 12:20:42 PM · #85 |
While it's a bit late for me to get the vaccine (I am already missing a chunk of my cervix since I was 21 thanks to precancerous cells I had been battling since age 17), I would give it to my daughter if I had one. I don't even want my daughters to go through what I went through, even though it didn't turn out to be full blown cancer. It was a very bad experience to say the least and it wasn't fun for my mom either. I have been clean for years now but it is still a very real thing to me. If I could spare them that, I would.
I have gotten my fair share of controversial vaccines, small pox and anthrax for starters, and I didn't have much choice about it cause the military said I had to. I didn't have any problems getting them. I really don't understand people who are opposed to vaccines. I would much rather give my children a few shots than watch them battle some ugly diseases that could kill them. It seems to me that the benefits outweigh the risks. But that's just me.
June
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02/03/2007 12:35:32 PM · #86 |
Originally posted by TCGuru:
Originally posted by boomtap:
If the drug company were to "give" the shots away in order to help the health of the population, that would be one thing. This is clearly a stab at making billions of dollars.
Re-frakin' diculous
I like what the governer says "Disease costs us lots of money, it makes fiscal sense" - Since when has the government been paying health care costs of anybody but illegals?
I am getting tired of all this forcing people to do things. The Government acts like it is "their" children. It is not their children, it is our children. This sort of ticks me off. |
How much do you think it costs the companies to research and produce a vaccine? This vaccine alone has been under study for years. How much do you think the average scientist gets paid? Yes, they do have to make a profit... possibly just to break even.
Disease does cost the government money... ever been to a free clinic? I have and I know a lot of other people that have too. If you have never had to use it, that's great. But there are people besides illegals that use the resources available to them.
Not arguing, just giving something else to consider.
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I realize it costs money. The problem I have is the way the Lobby to get things mandated about our health. When government is involved free-market is out the window. We are in a supply and demand society, not a socalism. It would be like if I sold cars, and I sold volvos which are safer, so I went to the government and passed a bill that required that all teens have to drive volvos because they are safer than any other car out there, and since car accidents cost us lots of money it should become law that at 16 they get a volvo if they want to drive. |
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02/03/2007 12:42:16 PM · #87 |
Originally posted by boomtap:
It would be like if I sold cars, and I sold volvos which are safer, so I went to the government and passed a bill that required that all teens have to drive volvos because they are safer than any other car out there, and since car accidents cost us lots of money it should become law that at 16 they get a volvo if they want to drive. |
That's probably what would happen if Volvos cost pennies apiece to make and were demonstrated to save 1000's of lives. |
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02/03/2007 12:54:08 PM · #88 |
| I still wouldn't want to live in a place that forces me to conform to what they feel is safe for me. |
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02/03/2007 12:55:18 PM · #89 |
Originally posted by boomtap:
I still wouldn't want to live in a place that forces me to conform to what they feel is safe for me. |
1- seatbelt laws
2- motorcycle helmet laws
3- stopping at a stop sign even though no other cars are around
the list could go on... |
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02/03/2007 12:56:30 PM · #90 |
Originally posted by saintaugust:
edit: if you take the cost of rolling out this vaccine to that many girls, and the costs of treating isolated cases of cervical cancer, i'd bet you'd spend less on treatment. not to say i want any girls to have to deal with cancer, of course not. but the financial argument isn't washing with me. |
I wouldn't bet my house on this, because estimating the cost of a certain type of cancer is a complex task. It is not just the treatment as such that counts (days in hospital, medication, etc), but also, for instance, days lost at work, years of life lost that could have been spent working instead of dying earlier. Now figuring out the economic cost of a desease for a population has to consider all these things, and if you do that, vaccination might indeed be the better choice.
While I'm very much in favor of vaccinations in general (being a medico I'm probably biased), I personally am strictly against mandatory vaccinations - but those who advocate them have some valid reasons as well. One is for instance that to significantly reduce the occurence of a desease in a population you have to have a certain percentage of people vaccinated. If you reach that, the illness has a much harder time to spread. Then those who are vaccinated in a way protect to some degree the few who are not.
Getting campaign support from Merck is not a valid reason, and it gives the effort a very bad taste (is that a correct idiom? German would be bitterer Beigeschmack).
Actually Merck profiting is not bad per se if the good is greater than the bad, and with vaccinations I think this is the case in the majority of cases. That they lobby for legislation to sell their stuff is a very questionable practice in my eyes. But I tend to say that questionable practices are not uncommon in the pharmaceutical industry. Pharmaceutical marketing tends to "create" markets for the stuff they invent. ADHS, which has been mentioned in this thread already, is a very infamous example. Children haven't changed much over the passed hundreds of years I would guess, but now they suddenly suffer of this desease "invented" by some Psychiatrists. There are certainly other examples.
As for the HPV, which was at the start that thread: I recently got a letter from our pediatrician informing us that such a vaccination exists. I will read up on this and advise my daughter accordingly, but it will be up to her whether she takes it or not.
By the way, there is another vaccination for a STD, which is Hepatitis B. Both my children are vaccinated against that. |
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02/03/2007 01:34:05 PM · #91 |
Originally posted by asimchoudhri:
Originally posted by boomtap:
I still wouldn't want to live in a place that forces me to conform to what they feel is safe for me. |
1- seatbelt laws
2- motorcycle helmet laws
3- stopping at a stop sign even though no other cars are around
the list could go on... |
:-)
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02/03/2007 02:04:17 PM · #92 |
Originally posted by fotomann_forever:
I wonder if there were such feelings of mistrust when the Polio vaccine, which eventually totally eradicated the Polio virus, was introduced in 1955? |
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02/03/2007 02:05:02 PM · #93 |
Originally posted by fotomann_forever:
I wonder if there were such feelings of mistrust when the Polio vaccine, which eventually totally eradicated the Polio virus, was introduced in 1955? |
I'm sure there was. Even today, in developing countries, there is distrust in established vaccinations. |
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02/03/2007 02:33:46 PM · #94 |
Originally posted by jenesis:
In a perfect world, everyone would abstain until marriage. |
Maybe in your perfect world... not mine. |
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02/03/2007 03:17:33 PM · #95 |
Originally posted by chimericvisions:
Originally posted by jenesis:
In a perfect world, everyone would abstain until marriage. |
Maybe in your perfect world... not mine. |
Well no, not in mine either. I'm just sayin'.... :)
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