Pentax k10d or Canon Eos 400d? - DPChallenge Forums

Leica 35mm f/1.4 Summilux M Aspherical MF - Black

02/02/2007 05:18:44 PM · #1

First, this is my first post in these forums, although I\'ve been enjoying reading many of the posts and have gleaned lots of info from them and the dpchallenge site in general. Dpchallenge is a great idea for a photography web site and is a fine place to learn more about taking great pics of everything and anything IMHO.

I\'m looking into buying my first dSLR after having decided that a dSLR offers much more versatility over a \'bridge\' style fixed lens super zoom model and you get RAW. I\'ve been looking at the Canon eos 400d pretty seriously and had just about made up my mind, when I came across the Pentax k10d which seems to have lots of positive reviews, both from other sites and users, although there does seem to be a \'banding\' issue which manifests itself in some circumstances - which may have been sorted out by a recent firmware upgrade.

Yes, I know that the k10d is closer to an eos 30d in terms of quality, but it has some useful extra features (in-camera IS, anti-dust CCD sensor etc etc) and the weatherproofing seems like a good idea. The Pentax also costs a little less than the 30d, which is helpful. In fact, I had chosen the 400d over the 30d because it appears to offer more or less the same capabilities as the 30d, but costs less (I\'m no pro, so ruggedness does not really bother me). If there had been a Canon model between the 400d and the 30d, I would probably have been considering it.

As for what I want to shoot, well, pretty much anything with the exception of people - apart from family. I\'ve always wanted to get into low light/night photography, and so Canon\'s reputation for almost noise free sensors appeals to me, but from what I have read the k10d is about on a par with the eos 30d, which sounds fine to me. I\'d also like to try macro and creative shots.

The k10d sounds as if it is very good value for money and has plenty of features to experiment with too, indeed it sounds as though it may be a better camera than the 30d in many respects (...shame the 40d is not out yet....). You can also use old Pentax lenses from years back with this camera, which may mean being able to pick up interesting second hand equipment.

So, what do you reckon dpchallengers - Canon eos 400d or Pentax k10d?

Any and all opinions welcome. I\'d also be very interested to hear from Canon owners who have gone over to Pentax and vice versa.

Dpchallenge is a great place to ask for opinions about equipment because you can always hop over to a commenter\'s portfolio to see what s/he does. This site is not about having the latest and greatest, it's about what you can do with what you have got. This is something I like, a lot. And makes it a very useful place for doing research before buying cameras, lenses and equipment.

Thanks in advance.

Alex

scarbrd

Leica M10

02/02/2007 05:46:35 PM · #2

I've always been a Pentax fan from a value/learning proposition.

I think you will find that there is much more in the way of accessories, availability, and general user knowledge with Canon cameras than with Pentax.

Either one will give you good results.

I do recommend this, wait until next week before making a decision. The photo electronics show, PMA, starts next Thursday. Lots of new products are announced there.

Canon is way overdue for some upgrades to the digital camera line. Usually with new cameras, the existing cameras usually come down in price.

Good luck.

Message edited by author 2007-02-02 17:47:08.

02/02/2007 05:51:52 PM · #3

Thanks for the advice scarbrd - I shall keep an eye on what happens at the PMA show.

SteveJ

Canon EF-S 18-135mm f/3.5-5.6 IS STM

02/02/2007 05:57:40 PM · #4

Take a serious look at the Pentax range. Most old Pentax lenses will work, although some need an adapter.

I had a 30D and wasn't satisfied with results when price was taken into consideration. Now have a basic Pentax and will let you know. Check out other users photos.

Message edited by author 2007-02-02 17:59:14.

Nikon AF Nikkor 50mm f/1.4D

02/02/2007 06:31:26 PM · #5

formerlee - I have been checking out examples of k10d pics, but seeing as the camera is still quite a new machine there are not that many examples, although from what I have seen, the results look good. Puckzzz has done some nice work with the k10d.

Interesting to hear that you went from a 30d to a K100.

It does seem that a lot of people set off down that Nikon/Canon road without looking at Pentax, but from what I have read the k10d is Pentax's best effort yet in the recent dSLR market(not that the previous models were too bad either), and it seems to be the equal of NikCan gear.

I almost feel spoilt for choice. Canon's low noise sensors had put me down the Canon road, instead of wandering down the Nikon way, but Pentax seem to offer a good alternative, especially in the k10d.

But as scarbrd has pointed out, the PMA show may help me make a choice.

It does seem that Canon bit and bobs are easier to find than Pentax stuff, which may mean getting a Canon would be better....

option

Nikon D200

02/02/2007 06:50:05 PM · #6

I'm going to mess with your choices even more and insist that you look at the Nikon D80 as well...

Go to the store. Hold them, play with them, look at some lenses. For me, the 400D dropped out of the running quickly, and I spent quite a while trying to decide between Nikon and Pentax. I'm sure I'd be happy if I went the other way.

I've heard some rumblings that Pentax might be completing their line at PMA: entry level K100D, advanced amateur K10D... pro quality K1D?? The medium format 645D, finally? Something completely off the radar? We shall see...

PurpleFire

Canon EF 17-40mm f/4.0L USM

02/02/2007 07:01:39 PM · #7

This is the easiest question in the world. Eyes closed, here I go......Nikon D80.

Unless you have dainty hands, you'll find the Nikon D80 much nicer to hold (and undisputed better build quality than the 400D).

Also, unless you plan to go down the EOS 5D or EOS 1Ds route with their full frame sensors, the Nikons have less of Crop factor than the Canon. I actually think there is less noise with the Nikon.

Message edited by author 2007-02-02 19:04:17.

Nikon AF Zoom-Nikkor 18-135mm f/3.5- 5.6G ED DX

02/02/2007 07:03:17 PM · #8

Thanks for the extra option, option (sorry could not resist). I'll think about the Nikon D80 too and, as you say go and have a play.

xXxscarletxXx

Nikon D80

02/02/2007 07:06:01 PM · #9

You want the Nikon D80 *Nudges* go on doooo ittttt

PurpleFire

Canon EF 17-40mm f/4.0L USM

02/02/2007 07:10:43 PM · #10

Originally posted by xXxscarletxXx:

You want the Nikon D80 *Nudges* go on doooo ittttt

Go on Amy, tell him how hot it is....go on, tell him.

If I get myself a D40 and saw 1/4 off, then glue it to my D50 will I get a D80 (but only with a 7.5MP senor)?!?!??!?

Artyste

Sony Ericsson W810i

Tamron SP AF 28-75mm f/2.8 XR Di for Pentax

02/02/2007 07:12:59 PM · #11

Not to mention the fact that the K10D is actually more of a competitor for the 30D than the 400D.. ( oh.. hehee.. you mentioned that.. nevermind!) *edited*

Let me put it one way that might help your decision:

The K10D relies a LOT more on post-processing knowledge.. it is designed to give the photographer more control over their images from the get-go.

Most beginners in the SLR field aren't quite ready for that. In this way, you might want to think about either moving down to the K100D (which is still a lot more process-dependant than other brands), or going with a camera like the 400D.. or.. like a lot of replies.. the Nikon D80.

Personally, I think the K10D would be a little too much a little too fast.

Message edited by author 2007-02-02 19:13:34.

Nikon AF Nikkor 50mm f/1.4D

02/02/2007 07:13:38 PM · #12

PurpleFire - I do have quite dainty hands, as you put it, and I have held a 30d, which I found quite bulky, but very solid. The 400d felt OK to me and not fragile. K10d is actually heavier, a bit, than the 30d. The D80 is between the 400d and the 30d.

I think I shall keep thinking....

option

Nikon D200

02/02/2007 07:14:37 PM · #13

Jack Bauer has a Pentax.

DjFenzl

02/02/2007 07:20:52 PM · #14

Originally posted by option:

Jack Bauer has a Pentax.

I would take a movie / TV camera/computer over my stuff any day.

can you enhance that. Zoom in. what's in his pockets? can you tell me the chemical make up of the device in his pocket? What number was he thinking of when the picture was taken?

5 seconds later there is a complete 3D representation of the scene and the surrounding 5 mile area.

Canon EF 100-400mm f/4.5-5.6L IS

02/02/2007 07:23:43 PM · #15

OK, OK, I'll start thinking about the Nikon D80 too :)

Artyste - interesting point you make about post-processing. This aspect does not worry me too much because that is why RAW appeals so much - it's like having your own virtual dark room.

From what I understood about film cameras, you could never really start getting images the way you wanted them until you started developing them. Being able to 'develop' or rather process images really does appeal to me. But, I have no real experience with complex digital post processing, so maybe the k10d would be OTT.

The low noise level of Canon's gear still appeals to me over Nikon stuff, but maybe I am just being picky. Up to iso 800 the D80 appears to be as good as the 30d, and, possibly a little better than the 400d.

Then again if a Pentax is good enough for Jack, well, then it is going to be fine for me...........

Anyone famous got a D80??

Message edited by author 2007-02-02 19:26:26.

DjFenzl

02/02/2007 07:28:21 PM · #16

Well if you're thinking maybe D80 then go D200, it's much manlier.

(come on everyone, if we keep it up we can talk him into a D2xs! ;)

sailracer_98

Canon EOS-6D

02/02/2007 07:28:31 PM · #17

I occasionally think about replacing my 300D, and if I did, it wouldn't be with the 400D. I think the 400D has a cheaper feel about it. Plus I am really starting to hate the viewfinder Canon uses on the Rebel line. I do a lot of bird photography and have to manual focus fairly often. The viewfinder is so small and has such low magnification that I can't tell when I achieve sharp focus. Also, I think Canon (and Nikon) are getting left behind with the body based anti-shake systems that everyone else is now including in their cameras. I'm hoping Canon fixes these deficiencies before I invest in another body so I don't have to get all new lenses...

I would consider a 30D or maybe a used 5D, but I am really intrigued by the Pentax K10D. The viewfinder is the primary reason. I haven't found a store around here that has one to try out, but based on the specs it looks to be better than any other DSLR in its price range. A strong secondary reason is the built in anti-shake. The downside of the Pentax is a more limited lens selection than the Canon line. In particular, there don't seem to be as many quality lenses in the fast long-telephoto range. There are some, so maybe that is enough to keep me happy.

I think playing with the cameras is probably the best advice. The Pentax and Canon seem pretty straightforward and natural to use. I have trouble picking up a Nikon and figuring out how to use it- it isn't as intuitive to me. I'm sure that's not a problem once you learn it, though.

option

Nikon D200

Nikon AF Nikkor 50mm f/1.4D

02/02/2007 07:30:30 PM · #18

Originally posted by Megatherian:

5 seconds later there is a complete 3D representation of the scene and the surrounding 5 mile area.

All done with a K10D. True story :-P

Almilan, I don't really think the K10D is that complex. I'm lazy and shoot jpeg all the time with it. Yeah, they need processing, but I'm sure thats more my fault than the cameras! Complex? Levels and sharpening are pretty basic.

02/02/2007 07:37:13 PM · #19

Originally posted by Megatherian:

Well if you're thinking maybe D80 then go D200, it's much manlier.

(come on everyone, if we keep it up we can talk him into a D2xs! ;)

Well, the D200 is a very nice piece of kit..........but the D2x....

I like the idea of a manly camera, but with my dainty hands....well. IS is not really manly either.

1.36am over here in Milan - I'm off to hit the sack.

Thanks for the input:)

PurpleFire

Canon EF 17-40mm f/4.0L USM

02/02/2007 07:38:35 PM · #20

Originally posted by Almilan:

Anyone famous got a D80??

What? You've not heard of the famous Aussie bombshell

xXxscarletxXx - where have you been all week... ;-)

Message edited by author 2007-02-02 19:39:13.

SteveJ

Canon EF-S 18-135mm f/3.5-5.6 IS STM

02/03/2007 03:50:36 PM · #21

Originally posted by sailracer_98:

The downside of the Pentax is a more limited lens selection than the Canon line. In particular, there don't seem to be as many quality lenses in the fast long-telephoto range. There are some, so maybe that is enough to keep me happy.

The Pentax range of lenses is extensive, the K10D & K100D can use all Pentax lenses going right back to the Stone Age, although some need an adapter to fit(no, not a hammer!) There is also the named brands like Tamron, Sigma etc who make the same range of lenses for Pentax as they do Nikon and Canon.

Gabriel

Pentax K7

Tomioka 55mm f/1.4 in M42 Mount

02/03/2007 04:09:48 PM · #22

Originally posted by sailracer_98:

Maybe there are less high end pro lenses, but you should not forget about all the legacy lenses. You can use all current Pentax lenses, but do not forget that you can also use all K mount and M42 lenses on the K10, while still having focus confirmation and sensor stabilisation. All you will need is an extra mecanical adapter for 10$. Think about it: AngÃ©nieux, Zeiss or Leica stabilised lenses with focus confirmation.

xXxscarletxXx

Nikon D80

Nikon AF Zoom-Nikkor 18-135mm f/3.5- 5.6G ED DX

02/04/2007 03:17:54 AM · #23

Originally posted by PurpleFire:

Originally posted by Almilan:

Anyone famous got a D80??

What? You've not heard of the famous Aussie bombshell xXxscarletxXx - where have you been all week... ;-)

I'm flattered ^_^

Tajhad

Canon EOS R

Canon RF 24-105mm f/4.0L IS USM

02/04/2007 05:33:09 AM · #24

Isn't choice a terrible thing ?
I must admit that the two cameras that get me quite excited are the Nikon 200D and the Pentax k10d.
Although I have a Canon 350D I don't think I would get the 400D. I mainly chose canon because I had a canon SLR - therefore the lens inter-change. This has proven to be a mute point because my lenses weren't that great - I crave better.
The Pentax on the other hand has a lot of things going for it. The viewfinder and the weatherproof body are the main ones I think of. The weatherproofing doesn't seem to be a big priority to some but if you plan to travel, shot in bad weather or simply drop it - it then becomes important.
True - the chioce of lenses is not as extensive (but may change this year)but Tamron and Sigma also make great lenses for the Pentax. Also - depending on finances how many lenses will you buy in a year? I'm still saving up - have only bought one this year. I also shot Pentax with SLR and found their prime lenses to be excellent.
I read a review that criticised the jpeg quality in the Pentax but then I would imagine you can adjust the camera to boost this. This criticism I take with a grain of salt - the same way they claim canon is less noisy then Nikon - the difference is probably miniscule (people using Nikon still produce noise free shots and people with canon still produce shots full of grain - I know, I've done it myself LOL). The review did state that the RAW capability of the Pentax was excellent.
As many people have stated before - handle one. Pentax have always pride themselves on comfortable and easy handling.

Whatever you chose - unless you are a fanatic shoting off 500 frames a week - you will find you are always learning something new with your camera and as you get more familiar with it, produce shots of an increasing quality for a number of years.
I know this doesn't help much - but have a serious look at the Pentax - it just may suite your needs.