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01/31/2007 02:34:38 PM · #1 |
New bill attempts to outlaw incandescent lightbulbs in California. (link)
Might be a good idea -- if the energy saving bulbs actually lived up to their advertised expectations. However, my wife and I moved into a new house last summer -- a house with lots and lots of small light bulbs instead of one big one. We tried making the switch to energy saving bulbs, but in addition to not working in circuits with dimmers attached, the bulbs don't seem to last any longer than incandescents do. They may even be lasting less time.
What do you think of the law? What do you think of the bulbs?
David |
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01/31/2007 02:38:49 PM · #2 |
Freedom Shmeedom, who needs it!?!
I'm all for energy saving bulbs (and recently I learned you can get ones that work on dimmers) but come on - do I really need the government telling me what kind of light bulbs I can use in my house? |
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01/31/2007 03:10:40 PM · #3 |
For all the people who want to outlaw incandescent bulbs, try this: Install a compact fluorescent bulb in an unheated space where the temperature is below 50 degrees F. Light the bulb and compare the color and quantity of light compared to one operating at 68 degrees F. Report your results here after the exercise.
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01/31/2007 03:18:16 PM · #4 |
Originally posted by Megatherian:
Freedom Shmeedom, who needs it!?!
I'm all for energy saving bulbs (and recently I learned you can get ones that work on dimmers) but come on - do I really need the government telling me what kind of light bulbs I can use in my house? |
I can agree, up to a point. I don't think we need a law for this as the change is taking place without government enforcement. But the resistance to the change is based in no small part on people being stuck in a rut -- 'why change what works'. Even when the bulbs work the same or better.
BTW: do to you have a link to CFL's that work with dimmers? Specifically, for recessed lighting that takes a 65W bulb?
David
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01/31/2007 03:23:39 PM · #5 |
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01/31/2007 03:28:15 PM · #6 |
Originally posted by David.C:
, but in addition to not working in circuits with dimmers attached, the bulbs don't seem to last any longer than incandescents do. They may even be lasting less time.
What do you think of the law? What do you think of the bulbs?
David |
In an heated space they are ok. I'm finding they don't last much longer than a standard light bulb. I was suspicious about life time and started marking the bases with the install date. With many of them I'm getting about 150 percent of the life of a standard incandescent. Some slightly less. These bulbs seem to be the ones you switch off and on a lot. So considering they cost as much as 10 to 20 times more than a standard bulb, I'm not impressed. Sure they save energy, but you won't save enough to recover the cost ot the bulbs. If you want to save some energy, put a timer on your electric hot water heater. Even if you have to pay a professional to install it will usually pay for itself in just a few months.
As for the law. Well, it originated in KaliFornia. Some of the most innovative, and the most assinine laws in history have originated there. Assuming a scale where assinine is zero, and innovative is ten, I would vote this law a 5. Certainly trying to save energy, but negating the results by wasting other resourses. Wow, that felt like I was voting and commenting on a challenge!
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01/31/2007 03:30:58 PM · #7 |
I replaced all my "old style" bulbs in my basement for the new and improved (ya right) energy-saving bulbs... I bought the brightest bulbs that I could and my basement is freaking dark! I hate these bulbs with a passion. In a room with 3 bulbs I still have to use a desk lamp when I read/write. I am not fond of them at all.
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01/31/2007 04:37:39 PM · #8 |
California already has a law saying that the main kitchen lighting in new construction or remodels has to come from fluorescents. I have no doubt that this new legislation will pass.
Personally, I have no love for the fluorescent bulbs. Every few years I buy one hoping they've improved but I'm always left disappointed. Like others have already mentioned I have yet to find one that is bright enough for my use. There must be some unique measurements being taken to arrive at this statement.
"A 20-watt CFL gives as much light as a 75-watt conventional bulb"
The first bulb I ever bought had a similar statement on the box. I switched out a 60w bulb with the fluorescent and nearly went blind trying to read a book. I put up with it for a week before going out and buying regular bulbs.
So I thought ok, I spent something like $15 on this I'll use it somewhere else where I don't really need that much light which brings us to...
"They are more convenient than other alternatives and come in different sizes and shapes to fit almost any fixture."
I guess the key word here is almost. None of the lamps I had at the time would accommodate the height or girth of the bulb. All of them had bales that were either too short or too narrow. That's super convenient if you ask me. |
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01/31/2007 04:42:28 PM · #9 |
| Why not just tax the Incandescents up to the same price as CFLs and apply the funds to efficiency research. ;) |
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01/31/2007 04:43:43 PM · #10 |
Originally posted by _eug:
Why not just tax the Incandescents up to the same price as CFLs and apply the funds to efficiency research. ;) |
Shhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh... they may be reading. |
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01/31/2007 05:01:42 PM · #11 |
If they save a quarter to a third on energy usage but you have to use three instead of one... hmmm...
They're pretty much useless anywhere the light isn't being left on for long. Put 'em in the bathroom and you're probably in and out before the light finishes coming on!
BCHydro gave away free 2-packs a couple years back as a promotion and I use one in the fixture above the sink, as it's not an area that needs really bright light, and it's the light we do leave on as a general "see-your-way-thru'-the-house" light. The other still sits in the package, because I can't find anywhere in the house where I need light and don't want a GOOD light.
Instead, we save energy by only having lights on where and when we need them, and only as bright as we need. Most lights in our house aren't on long enough at a time to make CFL's practical or particularly energy-saving. |
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01/31/2007 05:26:48 PM · #12 |
Originally posted by BeeCee:
If they save a quarter to a third on energy usage but you have to use three instead of one... hmmm...
They're pretty much useless anywhere the light isn't being left on for long. Put 'em in the bathroom and you're probably in and out before the light finishes coming on!
BCHydro gave away free 2-packs a couple years back as a promotion and I use one in the fixture above the sink, as it's not an area that needs really bright light, and it's the light we do leave on as a general "see-your-way-thru'-the-house" light. The other still sits in the package, because I can't find anywhere in the house where I need light and don't want a GOOD light.
Instead, we save energy by only having lights on where and when we need them, and only as bright as we need. Most lights in our house aren't on long enough at a time to make CFL's practical or particularly energy-saving. |
I'm not sure what type of CFs you are using, but none of mine take any time to warm up. Also you can purchase different wattages just like incandescent. One can be just as bright or brighter as incandescent also. I have several 23w units that put out more light than a 100w incandescent.
I made the switch about four years ago and most are still going strong. The quality and color temperature of the light is also much better. The only trouble I've had is finding enclosed ceiling fan fixture CFs locally, but I've found some online.
But I do consider the CF technology to be a transit one, as the future is in LED.
Originally posted by Megatherian:
Freedom Shmeedom, who needs it!?!
I'm all for energy saving bulbs (and recently I learned you can get ones that work on dimmers) but come on - do I really need the government telling me what kind of light bulbs I can use in my house? |
I couldn't tell by your profile what country you like in, but Americans have historically made really stupid decisions like big SUVs and incandescent bulbs are no different. If the government doesn't force them who will? It blows my mind driving down the street mid-day, and at least 10% have their front porch lights on. Just because you can doesn't mean you should, and some people are so worried that their freedom is in jeopardy that they are willing to screw the plant to make a point. |
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01/31/2007 05:43:41 PM · #13 |
Originally posted by BeeCee:
They're pretty much useless anywhere the light isn't being left on for long. Put 'em in the bathroom and you're probably in and out before the light finishes coming on! |
I've had to shop around to find ones that start instantly. Since the last so long though I think I'm going to have issuse remembering which was best.
I agree though that LEDs are the future. |
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01/31/2007 07:47:15 PM · #14 |
Originally posted by hyperfocal:
I'm not sure what type of CFs you are using, but none of mine take any time to warm up. Also you can purchase different wattages just like incandescent. One can be just as bright or brighter as incandescent also. I have several 23w units that put out more light than a 100w incandescent.
I made the switch about four years ago and most are still going strong. The quality and color temperature of the light is also much better. The only trouble I've had is finding enclosed ceiling fan fixture CFs locally, but I've found some online.
But I do consider the CF technology to be a transit one, as the future is in LED.
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These are "Luminus", which the power company must have thought were the best choice for trying to convince us to switch. They are 14w and say they'll replace a 60w bulb, which IS what I'd had in the specific fixture. Maybe they really aren't the best bulbs, but I'm certainly not impressed with them.
My mother replaced a lot of hers as well, though I don't know what brand she used, as she bought them. Working in her place lately, after her death, I notice the same problems. When I turn on her bedroom light I have to actually look directly AT it to make sure it really IS on, then in about 3 minutes it's finally at its full power.
I'd be MORE than happy to switch all my lights if I can find something that does the same job, but I'm not about to invest a few hundred dollars until I KNOW I'll be satisfied.
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01/31/2007 08:19:42 PM · #15 |
We just switched last weekend.
The ones I bought at Home Depot come in three color temperatures: soft white, which pretty well matches the yellowish light from most incandescents, bright white, and daylight.
They all turn on instantly, but most at substantially below full brightness. After a minute or so, though, they're ablaze and just as bright as the ones they replaced.
I would definitely go with the soft white ones for matching the color we're used to from incandescents.
Since it's winter and we heat with natural gas, most of our electricity bill is from lighting. I'm looking forward to seeing what our bill is after a full month.
One last thing: they ain't cheap. I spent nearly $200 on about 33 bulbs. On the other hand, bulk packages save quite a bit. A 4-pack of 60W-equivalent soft whites was $5.
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01/31/2007 08:33:12 PM · #16 |
This is a great discussion.... I am in the energy efficiency business and I am 100% in favor of using CFLs in your homes and businesses. I'm not necessarily in favor of the government forcing it down our throats, but if they don't, we'll continue to needlessly waste mega-watts of energy and continue to produce green house gasses.
The CFL has come a long ways since they first came out. They now come in all shapes and sizes. I have 6-watt candelabra CFLs in my entry way. I have PAR 30 Flood CFLs in my kitchen. I have 20-watt spiral CFLs in all ceiling fixtures in my house. I have 9-watt A-type (looks just like a standard incandescent light bulb) in my end-table lamps. I have 35-watt CFLs in my porch lights. I have 26-watt CFLs in my floor lamps. Etc...Etc...Etc. They work flawlessly. For my 2000 ft^2 house, my monthly electric bill is $25.00. Now, I must say that my wife refers to me as the energy nazi, but if every house in California removed ONE 100-watt incandescent and replaced it with ONE 26-watt CFL, we could save ourselves building one more polluting power plant.
Now, think about doing this nation wide. How much air pollution and green house gas emissions could we negate by doing something so simple?
I strongly encourage everyone to use CFL lamps wherever feasible. It just makes sense.
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01/31/2007 08:46:36 PM · #17 |
We switched about two weeks ago and I have few, if any complaints. They do take 30 seconds to one minute to come to full intensity, but there are a few instances where that is nice (not blinding yourself at night). That is most annoying with our closet light because you do want it to be fully there. There's nothing wrong with having a few incandescents.
The color is slightly different than we are used to, but nothing crazy. Our couch looks a different shade of green, but I can live with that. Like levyj, we went with the Home Depot warm white lights. We spent extra on the bathroom and kitchen to have lights which have glass casings around them to make them look like normal lights. The whole house was done for about $100. The package says they have a 9 year warranty, but I didn't save the stuff, so I'll have to see if they start burning out before I move (in 5 years).
As far as legislation, you know, I'm for freedom and all, but the average american consumer is lazy and will look at nothing but the bottom line. I doubt there will be substantial change without enforcement. Come on, people bitched about friggin seatbelt laws. If we are going to complain about that, there is no end to how little we are willing to do for the good of ourselves, our country, and our world. |
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01/31/2007 08:54:25 PM · #18 |
| This past weekend I bought the Home Depo soft white bulbs. The lamps in my bedroom are only rated for a 65 watt bulb. I installed 23w CFW bulbs that give out the same light as a 100 watt incandesent bulb. I am very impressed with how much brighter they are (than the 65 watt incandesent) and they come on instanly. |
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02/01/2007 01:10:42 AM · #19 |
We tried several different kinds, but the light we like the best is from the GE Daylight bulbs. At 6500K they are a lot cooler bulbs than a normal incandescent, but everything just looks better. I'll admit the quality of the light is as much a selling factor for these as the cost savings. I just wish I could find them for all the sockets.
If the amount of light from a 60W equivalent CFL doesn't meet what your expecting, there is no harm in using a 100W equivalent. The energy usage will still be well below what the outlet is rated for. But fair warning, I tried that in our bedroom -- wasn't so bad at first, but it wasn't long before I replaced them with the 60W equivalent to keep from going blind. The bulbs are nearly instantly on, but as stated do take a bit to get to full output, once there the light was just too bright.
But the mention of color temperature earlier has me wondering. Why have so many mentioned prefering the warmer light? Surely it's not just us that have found the cooler light to look better.
David
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02/01/2007 01:53:33 AM · #20 |
We're replacing our incandescents as they go out with CF's, which, with the "dirty" power we get from the power company, should take a couple of weeks. I don't miss the incandescents at all.
As for lifespan, we had one CF that the previous owner of our house had installed in the basement stairway that I just replaced. We bought this house 8 years ago, so it lasted at least that long. I will also say the newer CF's are MUCH brighter than that one
The only place I'm not going to put them is in the garage since it's unheated and they'll never work when it's -5F. I do have 4 cold temp regular fluorescent fixtures in the shop area and they work quite well.
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02/01/2007 01:57:38 AM · #21 |
Originally posted by David.C:
I just wish I could find them for all the sockets.
David |
I found a wide variety of CF replacements for specialty type bulbs (Candleabra, globe, spot etc.) at Menards. They are made by a company named Feit, in case Menards is not in your area.
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02/01/2007 03:01:38 AM · #22 |
the energy bulb above my bed, in my kitchen, and garage is burning out more and more often. Oh well, I guess I'll have to deal with it considering I live in CA :/
Message edited by author 2007-02-01 03:01:46.
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02/01/2007 07:42:05 PM · #23 |
| Has anyone found an LED bulb they are happy with? |
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02/01/2007 08:17:12 PM · #24 |
Originally posted by fir3bird:
For all the people who want to outlaw incandescent bulbs, try this: Install a compact fluorescent bulb in an unheated space where the temperature is below 50 degrees F. Light the bulb and compare the color and quantity of light compared to one operating at 68 degrees F. Report your results here after the exercise. |
Love to but I cannot see any ^%$ thing to measure the temp :-) Made the mistake of bolting some into the sealed outdoor lights (in Boston they work great in summer only) -> Cannot see a % thing outside now in winter.
I also find they last only a little longer then normal long-life bulbs and are a lot more expensive. I still have a stack to burn thru but will go back to normal bulbs after that - not worth the expense and lack of light.
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02/01/2007 08:22:13 PM · #25 |
I decided to give the CFLs a try. I got one and put it in a lamp.... sooo dark, but it's great when you are only using to pass through the room instead of the super bright overhead..
I just tried a much larger wattage CFL and a "Cold Light" version (it's says its daylight... it's not, really, but not totally blue either) I put it in my ceiling light fixture, which hold two bulbs, with the incandescent. The combo of the two isn't bad. You get the instant start with the incandescent but the saver with the CFL. I may do this compromise in all my rooms now. I did this because I got tired of the incandescents burning out 1-2 times a year. Hope the CFLs last longer. |
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