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 01/27/2007 05:32:12 PM · #26
Originally posted by ralph:


Damaged? or enlightened?

damaged goods / walking wounded

a person that has no guilt would very likely be a sociopath
and someone with no self-doubt .. would likely be bipolar (manic-depressive)
[/quote]

So you see the negativeity of man pretty easily then.

Any positives?

Message edited by author 2007-01-27 17:35:39.
 01/27/2007 06:36:48 PM · #27
Originally posted by dudephil:
Once again, I think where we're differing is what the OP meant by ego. If simply trying to be successful is the definition then I don't understand why it wouldn't be included in the second wolf, right? If the results you put out are better than others then there is no reason to not be happy with yourself.


I don't think you are describing ego. Now if you were successful and you're announcing it to the world then yes I'd considered you to have a big ego.

Originally posted by dudephil:


My definition of ego (egotistical, egomaniac, etc) is thinking you're better than someone on a human level because you are successful.

Many successful rock stars are driven by ego. Many successful humanitarians aren't.


I agree more with this definition although with your examples you are just making assumptions. I'd imagine there are many successful humanitarians driven by ego as well and I'm not just talking about famous ones like Oprah. I'd say if you are truly doing it for the cause and don't expect to get anything in return like praise, notoriety, or perks they would fit your example, IMO.

Message edited by author 2007-01-27 18:37:48.
 01/27/2007 06:47:25 PM · #28
Okay, of course no one really wants to be the first wolf unless they're just a total opportunist, but if life were only full of the second variety, there sure wouldn't be very many good books to read or movies to watch...
 01/27/2007 07:29:23 PM · #29
Originally posted by American_Horse:


So you see the negativeity of man pretty easily then.

Any positives?

I am not being negative - but rational..
you have to take the bad with the good -
i understand that the "feel good words" are important but i believe with out the "aggressive/distressful words" you are just a lump of meat

to strive - you need envy arrogance self-doubt inferiority and an ego the size of a house
to remember your life - you need sorrow, regret, guilt
to make people happy you have to lie sometimes

it is just the nature of the beast that we are

01/27/2007 07:40:47 PM · #30
That is a great anecdote Horse....

I share that similar concept with other people too. But mine is more of a simple statement...It goes something like:

"When it comes to the spirit, there is no such thing as the status quo. Everything decision we make, everything we say, everything we think or do, is either drawing us closer or pushing us further away from God. So take care in small things, the details, the subtle actions....because, I for one, would rather be heading in only one direction."

Quite right...quite right. Your feeding analogy is quite visual and not so abstract. I will remember this.
 01/27/2007 07:53:32 PM · #31
Originally posted by yanko:


I don't think you are describing ego. Now if you were successful and you're announcing it to the world then yes I'd considered you to have a big ego.



I agree that I wasn't describing ego (in most people's minds). I was pointing out that the description of ego posted earlier is not how many of us actually see it.


I agree more with this definition although with your examples you are just making assumptions. I'd imagine there are many successful humanitarians driven by ego as well and I'm not just talking about famous ones like Oprah. I'd say if you are truly doing it for the cause and don't expect to get anything in return like praise, notoriety, or perks they would fit your example, IMO.

Sure, my examples are assumptions just as the example of Oprah was an assumption.

I guess my definition of "success" didn't shine through in my post. By successful humanitarians I meant people who strive toward, and succeed at, helping others - whether they have a billion dollars or one dollar. Successful businessmen/women that help out others aren't necessarily successful humanitarians. However, just because some rich businessmen/women get praise for helping others doesn't mean they were seeking it.
01/27/2007 08:02:01 PM · #32
Originally posted by ralph:


to strive - you need envy arrogance self-doubt inferiority and an ego the size of a house
to remember your life - you need sorrow, regret, guilt
to make people happy you have to lie sometimes



Ralph, I promise you (and I'm not just saying this) that I really don't have any of those needs to strive. To strive, all I need to do is to look at a cardboard box and know that I don't want to live in it, to look at my son and want him to have a full belly and to look at my shoes and not want them to take me wherever I go.

The sorrow, regret and guilt are things that I cannot control. All I can do is live my life from here forward to ensure that the regret and guilt I will have in the future is no more than I have at the time I type this.

01/27/2007 08:24:10 PM · #33
Originally posted by dudephil:

Ralph, I promise you (and I'm not just saying this) that I really don't have any of those needs to strive. To strive, all I need to do is to look at a cardboard box and know that I don't want to live in it, to look at my son and want him to have a full belly and to look at my shoes and not want them to take me wherever I go.

The sorrow, regret and guilt are things that I cannot control. All I can do is live my life from here forward to ensure that the regret and guilt I will have in the future is no more than I have at the time I type this.


possibly your definition of striving may be different than mine
from "//en.wiktionary.org/wiki/strive" 'To try to achieve a result.'
when i think of striving i think of years of college/University, trying to pay off the mortgage, finding the right job, getting & staying ahead all my life (so far .. )

you have to want it to get it (ENVY)
you have to believe you are smart enough to chase it (ARROGANCE)
you have to question your motives occasionally (SELF DOUBT)
you have to realize that you may be on the wrong path (INFERIORITY)
you have to believe in your self (EGO)
-been there, done that ;)



01/27/2007 09:18:59 PM · #34
Looks like my definition of striving isn't the only one that differs from yours. The only one that I would find to be similar to mine would be your definition of self doubt (and that's not dead on).

Wanting it to get it is not what I'd consider envy. If you have it and I am resentful of it then I am envious.

Believing you are smart enough to chase it is hardly arrogant. If you believe that you are the only one with the capabilities to be smart enough to chase it then you are arrogant.

Questioning your motives might be self doubt. However, I hardly question my motives but I do question my decisions. My heart (motives) might be in the right place but my head (decisions) sometimes isn't. This is my self doubt.

Realizing that I am on the wrong path to get where I'm going is not my definition of inferiority by any means. Adjustments sometimes have to be made daily to get on the right track but inferiority didn't make me change paths. Do I feel inferior to certain individuals? You betcha! How can I not feel inferior to Einstein, Edison, etc when it comes to brain power? However, I'd be willing to bet that I can do things that would've made them feel inferior as well.

Believing in oneself is not egotistical in my book. However, believing only in yourself might just be.

Originally posted by ralph:


possibly your definition of striving may be different than mine
from "//en.wiktionary.org/wiki/strive" 'To try to achieve a result.'
when i think of striving i think of years of college/University, trying to pay off the mortgage, finding the right job, getting & staying ahead all my life (so far .. )

you have to want it to get it (ENVY)
you have to believe you are smart enough to chase it (ARROGANCE)
you have to question your motives occasionally (SELF DOUBT)
you have to realize that you may be on the wrong path (INFERIORITY)
you have to believe in your self (EGO)
-been there, done that ;)

01/28/2007 08:59:20 AM · #35
How about this perspective.

A coach once told me that in Baseball, the pitcher should have high confidence. Once on the mound, a touch of ego is nessisary in order to out wit the batter.

Once off the mound, however, that pitcher should never pat themselves on the back, and just simply blend back in with the rest of the team.


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