"Magazine Cover" voting - DPChallenge Forums

Canon EF 24-105mm f/4.0L IS

06/14/2003 11:03:54 AM · #26

< Here I go .. stepping up onto my soap box... :( >

I have found that more and more participants are more concerned over the nitty gritties of the challenge wording and their view and their interpretation than in the *photograph*.

For those about to jump on the band wagon *I do not mean that someone should ignore the challenge*... please here me out.

I am just pointing out that, while staying within the challenge guidelines is important, a bit of "benefit of the doubt" is in order - in all challenges. All of this talk.. for months now.. about "I'm deducting points for this and that" and "I think the challenge is ONLY this NOT that". So, I am not surprised by this thread.

I am saddened that voting is seemingly controlled by *language* rather than *photographs*.

This is more of a general comment than I intended. Perhaps I should have waited until I could be more articulate about it. I have been pounced on before for "well, that's why it is a *challenge*" comments. Yes. Understood. If it was a 'People' challenge, and someone posts a photo of a boat, fine. Maybe take off a point or what not. But we are here to vote on the best photo.

Argh. I better stop. I can feel another pounce coming on. ;)
I guess I need to find a better explanation of how I feel about this.. but in the meantime, I hope you can "read between the lines" ;)

< steps down off of the soap box, and mingles and hides in the crowd again >

Message edited by author 2003-06-14 11:05:11.

zeuszen

Canon EOS-1Ds Mark II

06/14/2003 01:50:05 PM · #27

Originally posted by KarenB:

You are quite articulate, Karen, and I agree with you.

Some may find it 'easier' to criticize peripherilly than to have to wrestle with essence. I do think it important, however, to try to keep the language as clear as we can, especially in critiques and comments, so it may lead us into the gist and out of the quibble.

sagestudio

Canon EOS-5D Mark II

Canon EF 50mm f/1.8 II

06/14/2003 06:38:12 PM · #28

You, Zeus, are the perfect example of clear, intelligent, commenting. You DO get to the "essence" of a photo, at least you have on a few of mine. : )

qachyk

Kodak CX4200

06/14/2003 06:41:29 PM · #29

Originally posted by KING:

ChrisW123 like some others here I think you voted too narrow-minded. There were lots of magazine titles that I didn't recognize; maybe that's because I don't live in the US. But this wasn't for me (and shouldn't be for anyone else IMHO) a reason to vote pictures down.

About Google: like gaga_tz says in many countries magazines still don't have a website because they don't think it is important or too costly. Or they do have one but it is just very hard to find with Google.

I think some people here should realize that the world is a bigger place than just their own town, state or country....

I saw one magazine title in a language other than English. I looked it up and found it. No problem there.

If your title was in English, than either a) you translated, which in this case was probably not the best idea, or b) your magazine was in English and therefore almost certainly published in a country where Internet access is the norm. It's not close-minded for me to expect to be able to find some mention of it online; if you chose a very small niche magazine, then you are putting a bigger burden on the voter to figure out if your picture is really on topic for it, and the voter can decide how to handle that as they see fit. Some people took points off. Deal.

The magazine itself does NOT have to have a web site to have been mentioned on one. I found at least one other magazine I'd never heard of via Google not because it had a web site but because of a list of magazines on a specific topic mentioned it. (Or if it had a web site it didn't show up early in Google's results.)

If the magazine title is extremely generic AND I've never heard of it AND a trip to Google doesn't turn up anything on it, just how am I supposed to judge if the picture fits the magazine? "Oh, just go by the title" is not always possible. I tried where possible anyhow, but the fact is, it wasn't always, and yes, that counted against you as much as taking a picture of something I can't figure out what it is in a very specific challenge would count against you. Again, deal.

Considering how crappily my picture is scoring for a magazine that a) a lot of people either will have heard of or be sure from the title what it is and b) does in fact have a web page, obviously that's not even remotely the only criterion people are using for scoring. Despite a later post in this thread, how 'on topic' a picture is is a large portion of how I score it. The most gorgeous sunset photo in the world would not belong in a "Small furry pets" challenge, and why should it get rewarded for being there? I do actually give some amount of benefit of the doubt, but I need something to work with, and a bland magazine title that tells me nothing about what would be on the cover doesn't qualfiy.

So, yes, there are pictures I scored down because I could not figure out how good a subject choice the photo was. Out of the couple hundred voters, you now know 3 or 4 did that. How much do you think it affected your score?

ChrisW123

Canon EOS-1000D Rebel XS

Canon EF-S 18-55mm f/3.5-5.6 IS

06/14/2003 08:25:51 PM · #30

Settle down now. :) It's a FACT that some voters aren't going to relate to a magazine they haven't heard of no matter how familiar it may be to you. Just deal with it. Let's let the scores decide the "right" or "wrong" choice for your magazine instead. :)

I don't think deducting 1 point is off-base for a magazine you have never heard of.... Gachyk said... "Chris I think you voted too narrow-minded...". What? You are telling ME that I'm too narrow minded because I subtract a point for a mag I've never heard of? Well gee, I wouldn't tell you that you are "too narrow minded" if you said "I prefer apples to oranges..". It's the same thing.

Give me a break... You need to appeal to YOUR AUDIENCE whether that be people who like Apples or those who like Oranges, and not complain when when apple haters (not me of course:) prefer oranges. I hope that made some sense. :D

rossic

Canon EOS-10D

06/14/2003 09:27:12 PM · #31

Originally posted by ChrisW123:

Some sense? Oh no, the fact here is that you're voting down about something because you simply don't know it. If you were in a "fruits & vegetables contest", you'll vote down to other fruits that doesn't look like apples or oranges because you don't know them, even they were delicious, for sure.

I'm just talking in the name of the ones that submit something of other countries than US.

HBunch

HP PhotoSmart 315

06/14/2003 09:50:59 PM · #32

I have been known to say something like "I don't know what this is, but I'm not going to punish you for my own ignorance." Refering to a product, or something. This is my opinion, and I just wanted to throw it out there, since everyone was sharing.

06/14/2003 09:58:17 PM · #33

My opinion: this is absurd. You guys are voting .. it sounds like .. almost entirely on the validity of the existence of a magazine.
You apparently have too much time on your hands to be concerned enough to actually look up the magazine on the internet. Give *me* a break!
Who cares?! Are you interested in photography?

qachyk

Kodak CX4200

06/14/2003 10:41:06 PM · #34

Originally posted by ChrisW123:

Gachyk said... "Chris I think you voted too narrow-minded...". What? You are telling ME that I'm too narrow minded because I subtract a point for a mag I've never heard of? Well gee, I wouldn't tell you that you are "too narrow minded" if you said "I prefer apples to oranges..". It's the same thing.

First of all, no I didn't; I was quoting someone who did. Quotes are set off, so really this should have been obvious.

Second, would you people pick some new fonts or something? That's a Q. QQQQQQQ. A small g has a tail. Yeesh.

qachyk

Kodak CX4200

06/14/2003 10:46:10 PM · #35

Originally posted by KarenB:

My opinion: this is absurd. You guys are voting .. it sounds like .. almost entirely on the validity of the existence of a magazine.

Right, because saying "I took 1 point off if I didn't hear of the magazine" (not me, someone else) or that it might affect my vote if I didn't hear of it, couldn't find it, and couldn't figure out what kind of topic would be appropriate for the magazine means it's "almost entirely" about the validity of the magazine, especially after I said I tried to give benefit of the doubt.

I really am beginning to think people here don't read what's posted.

Originally posted by KarenB:

You apparently have too much time on your hands to be concerned enough to actually look up the magazine on the internet. Give *me* a break!

Yeah, that 5 extra seconds per photo on the small percentage I felt it necessary to do this on makes a huge difference to my free time. It must have added up to a good minute and a half.

I realize not everyone has the kind of broadband I do, but, er, I do. Barring Google being unusually slow, that's about what it takes to search for a title.

Message edited by author 2003-06-14 22:47:29.

Tamron SP AF 28-75mm f/2.8 XR Di for Canon

06/14/2003 10:55:16 PM · #36

Well, if you say you didn't say that, then it is not directed at you.
Also, the point was this is a photography site, not a learn how to be a lawyer site... which is the whole background to my "too much time on your hands" comment.

Canon EOS-20D

06/14/2003 11:03:55 PM · #37

This is the exact same argument that occurs for every single other challenge...except sometimes it's about the kid haters, sometimes it's about the pet haters, sometimes it's about the flower haters, sometimes it's just about whoever else on this site voted wrong. And I wonder how many people have changed their voting strategies based on people ranting about them? My guess would be few to none. The whole thing is, you can rant about "close-minded" this and uneducated that but it's it's not likely to change anything, nor does it need to because the whole point of voting is that people pick what they want and if you're photo is doing poorly, it's probably not because of the one guy who said he took one single point off for unheard of magazines, it's probably because it's not a very good photo. With the number of voters we have here, it all works out in the end.