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12/18/2006 11:58:23 AM · #26 |
Originally posted by MattO:
High ISO on P&S usually leave alot to be desired. There are some that handle it well but others dont. I think that if your going to get a decent number of keepers from a non professional setup, I'd buy the 30D 85 1.8 and the 70-200 2.8 non is with a 580 flash. This works rather well and is good enough to get a decent number of keepers from.
MattO |
Thought High ISO on a P&S was generally around 400, with noise worse than 3200 on most any DSLR.
The lenses you suggest are good, but arguable (IS may be important for reasons other than sports...) But accepting these choices, the package price is very high for a soccer mom who just wants some nice snapshots (ie doesn't want to get into photography), however, this would help show the parents why pro photos cost so much. |
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12/18/2006 12:14:21 PM · #27 |
Originally posted by hankk:
Thought High ISO on a P&S was generally around 400, with noise worse than 3200 on most any DSLR. |
For best ISO performance in a P&S people should look at Fuji. Fuji has P&S sensors that can perform quite well at ISO800. Their ISO 800 looks like the 200 of other manufacturers. Some recent models even go to ISO3200, but that looks like crap.
I'm going to test one soon against my D70. Within 48 hours I'll receive a Fuji F30. :)
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12/18/2006 12:19:23 PM · #28 |
Originally posted by SamDoe1:
Originally posted by Bear_Music:
I'll admit that it's been a while since I've looked at a new P&S; several years, actually. IF the shutter lag has been trimmed way down, that would go a long ways towards leveling the playing field certainly.
R. |
High speed focus (half press lag): 0.3s (wide) and 0.5s (tele)
Prefocused lag (half press to full): 0.04 (IS mode 1 or off) and 0.08 (IS mode 2)
Full press lag: 0.5s |
Half a second lag between press and focus/shoot is WAY too much for sports though. It means you have to anticipate the action by a full half second or more to get the shot, even with burst mode, since burst mode only comes AFTER acquisition of focus. Add to that how the average person probably has half a second reflex lag between recognizing the shot and pressing the button, and you are talking a full second off the mark here.
Now I readily acknowledge you can train your way out of this conundrum with some serious practice, but that isn't really the point I'm making.
R.
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12/18/2006 12:40:44 PM · #29 |
Originally posted by skiprow:
THANKS for all the feedback!
let me see if i can summarize this...
1) if you really practice, learn your camera, and understand the sports you are going to shoot, you might be able to make do with just about any camera--or at least get a few keepers.
2) there are some newer and/or higher end p&s cameras that have solved a number the problems people have found with older, low end cameras.
(few good points snipped here - ed.)
i might actually write this up and put it on the back of my business card ;-) |
In support of the above (I think) . . .
footy portfolio
Shots taken with a coolpix 4100 on an overcast day (pissing hard with rain some of the time). My interest is more in the group than in any individual and the pictures are not much to write home about, but I'd say it's the way to start for yon parents. If they feel the need to upgrade then they can give the p&s to the kid for Christmas.
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12/18/2006 12:58:20 PM · #30 |
Skip,
I can speak to soccer matches, but not too much on other sports, let alone indoor sports.
I have a Pentax K100D with the same lens kit, plus an AF75-300mm F/4-5.6 LD Macro lens. I shoot a lot of soccer, and this is the lens I use for soccer matches (here's a sampling). On my camera, on the long side, this lens is equivalent to 400mm, allowing me to pull in the action very close. More soccer photos are here, be sure to click on the "Sports" link.
Some of my soccer photos have made the newspaper (more samplings).
Some general soccer photography tips, off the top of my head:
o Get close to the action. (an obvious tip) :-)
o Use continuous focus mode.
o Use "rapid fire" mode. (a.k.a. continuous drive mode)
o Use aperture priority and dial in the largest opening that you can. This will help "stop" the action with a faster shutter speed.
o Position yourself between the goal and the corner, on the end-line (or close to it). This way, the action comes at you instead of across your field of vision--minimizing action blur, unless you want this blur.
o The longer the lens the more you may want to consider a monopod. I normally don't use one with soccer because of all the action and also because I use image stabilization, which really helps.
o When the ball is kicked high into the air follow it and start taking photos (rapid fire). This increases your chances of catching a cool header shot or a one-touch pass.
o During a corner kick, back yourself toward a corner (either the same corner as the kicker or the opposite corner). This allows you to aim at the front of the goal, in the 6-yard box. All the action should happen in this box. With one eye in the viewfinder, keep the other eye open and looking at the kicker. This will give you enough warning as to when to start firing.
o After a goal, keep shooting, preferably at the celebrating shooter.
o Concentrate on the game. If your son/daughter is about to make a play, it's too easy to lower the camera to watch the action and thus, missing a photo op. :-(
o Use a large memory card(s). Shoot plenty of images. I usually shoot about 150 images during a 60-minute match. Of those, maybe 20-30 are "keepers", and of those 30, maybe 2 or 3 are absolutely fantastic.
Message edited by author 2006-12-18 13:15:31.
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12/18/2006 12:59:48 PM · #31 |
Originally posted by kelli_K:
So I am trying out the D70 (which I know is NOT a P&S), but I am really thinking of buying a Rebel XTI. Any thought on the Rebel??? |
Unless you invest in a Pro level DSLR you will get noise at high ISO. If you expose your shots well it is not an issue. Programs like Noise Ninja do a great job of cleaning up shots with high noise levels.
Botton line is it would make little difference if you use a Nikon or a Canon at this level. Also, if you are goiong to purchase a DSLR yourself you might look at the newer Nikons and the newer Canons as they have better noise control than the older D70.
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12/18/2006 01:06:58 PM · #32 |
Originally posted by Bear_Music:
Half a second lag between press and focus/shoot is WAY too much for sports though. |
Some models (Fuji S6000fd, Panasonic FZ50, Sony H5, Canon S3 IS) have Continuous AF, that should help a bit. After that the lag of the Fuji is only 0.03 to 0.06s for example.
Also, how fast your SLR will focus depends very much on the lens. A non USM f/5.6 will focus way slower than a f/2.8 USM IS and cheap SLR lenses are not better than fixed P&S lenses.
Not that I'd recommend a P&S though for various other reasons (noise, lack of dof, not as versatile, etc.)
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12/18/2006 01:27:46 PM · #33 |
Originally posted by hankk:
Originally posted by MattO:
High ISO on P&S usually leave alot to be desired. There are some that handle it well but others dont. I think that if your going to get a decent number of keepers from a non professional setup, I'd buy the 30D 85 1.8 and the 70-200 2.8 non is with a 580 flash. This works rather well and is good enough to get a decent number of keepers from.
MattO |
Thought High ISO on a P&S was generally around 400, with noise worse than 3200 on most any DSLR.
The lenses you suggest are good, but arguable (IS may be important for reasons other than sports...) But accepting these choices, the package price is very high for a soccer mom who just wants some nice snapshots (ie doesn't want to get into photography), however, this would help show the parents why pro photos cost so much. |
Adding IS to those lens I suggest would add several Benjamins to each lens cost. And then they would have to understand the principle that IS stops camera shake(motion) not sports motion. So I always suggest to folks that ask that they save the money on the IS and get the fastest focusing and apeture lens they can afford, also getting a camera that can handle noise at higher ISO. However I like the fact that people look into buying what I have to shoot their kids sports, then they dont complain about my prices when they buy prints! :-)
MattO
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12/18/2006 02:41:58 PM · #34 |
OK, after reading all the posts here, I've learned more and even more confused. Can anyone help to guide me in a right direction as to what to look for in a P&S. The only camera I've used has been a HP PhotoSmart 315. My son was thinking about buying me a Canon A630 or A640 for Christmas. Would this be a good choice or does anyone have any other suggestions for something under $400.00. Uses will include crime scenes, scenery, portraits, etc.
Any help would be greatly appreciated.
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12/18/2006 03:56:40 PM · #35 |
Originally posted by tcocollins:
OK, after reading all the posts here, I've learned more and even more confused. Can anyone help to guide me in a right direction as to what to look for in a P&S. The only camera I've used has been a HP PhotoSmart 315. My son was thinking about buying me a Canon A630 or A640 for Christmas. Would this be a good choice or does anyone have any other suggestions for something under $400.00. Uses will include crime scenes, scenery, portraits, etc.
Any help would be greatly appreciated. |
figure out how much you want to spend, go to B&H's web site, and find P&S cameras in your price range. Then compare them at DPreview or some other site. There's just too many P&S cameras out there to give a meaningful answer. |
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12/18/2006 04:00:38 PM · #36 |
Originally posted by MattO:
Originally posted by hankk:
The lenses you suggest are good, but arguable (IS may be important for reasons other than sports...) But accepting these choices, the package price is very high for a soccer mom who just wants some nice snapshots (ie doesn't want to get into photography), however, this would help show the parents why pro photos cost so much. |
Adding IS to those lens I suggest would add several Benjamins to each lens cost. And then they would have to understand the principle that IS stops camera shake(motion) not sports motion. So I always suggest to folks that ask that they save the money on the IS and get the fastest focusing and apeture lens they can afford, also getting a camera that can handle noise at higher ISO. However I like the fact that people look into buying what I have to shoot their kids sports, then they dont complain about my prices when they buy prints! :-)
MattO |
OK, my assumption is that the parents are also going to want to take pictures of the kid's in a school play or concert. There, IS will help. But there's a lot of other threads that argue what the best lens is...as far as the parents understanding camera shake vs stop motion, a 30 second discussion that glazes their eyes over shows them the value of knowledge and experience that you bring to the picture :-) |
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12/18/2006 10:57:59 PM · #37 |
Recommend them the Barbie Designer Cam.
That usually stops further questions so you can resume your work. |
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