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Showing posts 51 - 75 of 94, (reverse)
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 05/28/2003 04:28:41 PM · #51
Paganini made this comment earlier in this thread, and I agree with him.

But I am seeing color photographs with two or three colors in this challenge :) not exactly duotone in the traditional sense.

I think most of the voters are thinking in the "traditional sense"

I'm trying to use my photos to express in ways that are not traditional. After all, this is "DIGITAL" I'd like to think we can achieve far more with what we have today, than what once was. Is hard to keep me in the box at times. I just hate to see the creativity cut off here.
 05/28/2003 04:34:49 PM · #52
Originally posted by Gringo:

[i][b]I just hate to see the creativity cut off here.


I haven't seen ANY evidence that creativity is blocked in any way by these challenges. The simple common sense rules that apply to these challenges are not creative blocks in any sense. In fact, they demand that we use creativity to solve the puzzle of restriction.
 05/28/2003 04:46:56 PM · #53
Originally posted by Jak:
Originally posted by Gringo:

[i][b]I just hate to see the creativity cut off here.


I haven't seen ANY evidence that creativity is blocked in any way by these challenges. The simple common sense rules that apply to these challenges are not creative blocks in any sense. In fact, they demand that we use creativity to solve the puzzle of restriction.


I agree, But there is NO WAY to go back to a "traditional" duotone if they were NEVER traditionally done without film. So to pretend there is a "Correct" way to create a digital duotone, is absurd. So those who wish to deal with traditional methods are in fact limiting the creativity of those who are trying to please the voters for a higher score.
(I'm not here for the score, I just enjoy the creativity of everyone here)
 05/28/2003 04:50:59 PM · #54
I agree. But if shots show up with four or five colours in a "duotone" challenge, then no amount of non-traditional-method bs is going to convince me to vote a decent score for them.

05/28/2003 04:57:16 PM · #55
Hence the low score on my fabulous 5 color duotone this week.
Hahahaha ha.

As I stand out here in left field :)
05/28/2003 05:28:24 PM · #56
Yes, but you stand not alone.
and, all arguments aside, this is one good group of photos to vote on.

Message edited by author 2003-05-28 17:43:36.
 05/28/2003 05:47:28 PM · #57
This is so simple to me. Am I wrong?
If I have two colors, say a yellow and a blue. When I mix them, I now have green too.
I think the block here is that I am changing the hue by mixing the two colors together and the traditional folks are trying to change only the value of the two colors.

The difference between the two methods in my mind is one is duotone the other is sepia, providing its a brownish.

I still like my shot.

ARE WE ALONE OVER HERE DAVID Ey?
COME-ON, Who's with us here.... Speak up!
(i feel my score going up.... can you feel it David?)
05/28/2003 05:48:48 PM · #58
Originally posted by David Ey:
Yes, but you stand not alone.
and, all arguments aside, this is one good group of photos to vote on.


I agree in every way, this has been a great challenge.
 05/28/2003 05:49:46 PM · #59
Exactly. I saw the same thing with a tone on a XXX (can't reveal it), that's fine, but i saw a completely white background, that's weird, and then I saw a completely different color other than the tone on another object with the same mid-tones as the other object, so they shoul dhave the same color range, but they don't.

But that image was very nice :) other than it's not duotone.


Originally posted by Jak:
I agree. But if shots show up with four or five colours in a "duotone" challenge, then no amount of non-traditional-method bs is going to convince me to vote a decent score for them.
 05/28/2003 05:55:59 PM · #60
[quote=paganini]
But that image was very nice :) other than it's not duotone.


Ya, probably right. I'll bet its sepia. ;)
 05/28/2003 07:08:39 PM · #61
Originally posted by eloise:
Honestly? I trust my judgement over Photoshop's. :-> I know not its capabilities and choices from a hole in the ground.


It lets you pick TWO colors. I picked black and blue. Adobe makes hundreds of millions of dollars a year on Photoshop and understanding photography. You wish to contradict them because...you FEEL like it? If my blue/black had green in it, mark it down. If it has red in it, mark it down. But black/white/grey is three the same as black/white/blue is three. So if BLACK AND WHITE PHOTOS are not duotones, WHAT THE HELL IS?!
 05/28/2003 07:11:37 PM · #62
By the way, Eloise - you disagree with my Photoshop comment despite:

"IMHO, black counts as a color for this, though, so to me 'duotone' means white, black, and an optional third color. Not an additional optional fourth, fifth, sixth ..."

YO that's WHAT I WAS SAYING!!!!
 05/28/2003 07:37:51 PM · #63
Actually, B&W by itself isn't duotone :) That's a single color (black) on "white" canvas, i.e. the printed paper.

duotone means to add two tones on a canvas, which is usually white, doesn't have to be, but usually is. And the usual duotone process it to add black + another tone.

Black and Yellow Tone -- would create from black to dark green to light yellow to white in teh image depending on teh intensity of the image. You won't get red in this. You could get in midtones something that looks more "golden".



Originally posted by mavrik:
Originally posted by eloise:
Honestly? I trust my judgement over Photoshop's. :-> I know not its capabilities and choices from a hole in the ground.


It lets you pick TWO colors. I picked black and blue. Adobe makes hundreds of millions of dollars a year on Photoshop and understanding photography. You wish to contradict them because...you FEEL like it? If my blue/black had green in it, mark it down. If it has red in it, mark it down. But black/white/grey is three the same as black/white/blue is three. So if BLACK AND WHITE PHOTOS are not duotones, WHAT THE HELL IS?!
 05/28/2003 07:57:34 PM · #64
LOL At least we agree for once...even if I technically misspoke. ;)

Yes, duotone - two colors - black and something else qualifies.
 05/28/2003 08:06:46 PM · #65
The arguments over what "duotone" means are kind of irrelevant if you read the entire challenge info. It gives examples. The examples are black & white and sepia. We all know what these things look like, they're common enough effects that can be applied to digital pictures. To me this says that the challenge was intended to lead to people creating images of this type - those that don't, in my opinion, have failed to meet the challenge even if the photographers can pull out the technical manuals and dictionaries to "prove" the others wrong. Language mutates and is based on an understanding between the sender and the receiver of the signal. Never mind what Photoshop thinks, or what the history of the word "duotone" is. The challenge fairly clearly indicates that we're after things that look like black/grey/white or dark brown/light brown/white for this challenge. Those who chose to interpret differently, by decision or by accident, are going to be marked down for it.
 05/28/2003 08:12:59 PM · #66
I've got a question which may have already been answered, if so, please forgive! Under the challenge parameters, if you take a regular color photo, change it to greyscale and then colorize it with your chosen hue, is it then duotone or unotone or trestone?

My entry is trying to climb out of the cellar, but still on the steps.......Of course, it could just be the photo, not the interpretation! 8-) I didn't prepare my photo the way I just described, though. I split to the cmyk channels, chose the one I liked best after changing it to a negative (positive, really) image and then colorized it with the hue I liked best. After the challenge closed, I finally read or figured out about the greyscale to colorize to hue adjustment. I probably did it wrong both ways!
 05/28/2003 08:16:02 PM · #67
so...assuming the challenge description is accurate, there's

1) black and white
2) sepia (which is done //www.dpchallenge.com/tutorial.php?TUTORIAL_ID=14 like this, with colorize in hue adjustments)
3) etc.

What is "etc" if not the DUOTONE command in PS? It's not a b/w challenge. It's not a sepia challenge. The NAME of it is "DUOTONE!"
LOLOLOLOLOLOL

Let me rephrase this - sepia is a brown tone, yes? If sepia is a duotone, having white, black and 'browns' how is a red/black/white or blue/black/white not also a 'sepia'-like 'etc' duotone?


05/28/2003 08:29:00 PM · #68
Here is my two cents.

My definition or interpretation of duotone is two shades (colors) on a print. What I mean is, the two shades derive from two colors.
The effect would produce the color with some black or white mixed in it to create a deeper or shallower shade of the color presented.
Thats is just my oppinion and the bases that I judged on.
05/28/2003 08:49:28 PM · #69
your comment on my shot was that you saw more than two colors. what you saw was black/white/third color - duotoned in PS. *shrug*

M
 05/28/2003 09:53:57 PM · #70
[quote=kavamama]I've got a question which may have already been answered, if so, please forgive! Under the challenge parameters, if you take a regular color photo, change it to greyscale and then colorize it with your chosen hue, is it then duotone or unotone or trestone?

Its simply called a halftone.
I think you did it just fine Kavamama. Mine was knowingly "creative"
 05/28/2003 11:19:33 PM · #71
Two tones :) not colors, as there are MANY colors in a duotone (different shades of yellow, each shade = a color).... that's where the confusion is. You can have multiple colors in a RANGE of 2 tones :)

Originally posted by mavrik:
LOL At least we agree for once...even if I technically misspoke. ;)

Yes, duotone - two colors - black and something else qualifies.
 05/28/2003 11:26:40 PM · #72
mavrik: i think it's pointless to argue with these guys :)

People just don't understand about film and duotone.

1. In the FILM days, not long ago, there is a process called developing and printing. That is, you get the negative, make a print by exposing light through the negative onto paper. The paper reacts, and forms shades of gray (BLACK on WHITE canvas = gray levels). This is called B&W.

2. Duotone is a process where you get the print from B&W (black + white), then you add a second tone to it, say brown or yellow or green or magnenta.

3. Multi-tone, same as duotone but the process repeats itself, each time a chemical process that adds the tone to ALL of the image (unless the photog apply some sort of mask to covert areas), and depending on how long you leave the chemical in, it determines how much tone is added.

That's basically it. Photoshop just takes a GRAY scale image and adds color to it. If you simply add one color of BLACK, it'll be the same thing (i.e. it won't change), that's mono-tone, i.e. B&W. Add another tone, say one of those PANTONES, then you get duotone.

05/29/2003 12:01:03 AM · #73
Let me ask this: is there a way to access the Duotones in PS while bypassing the Grayscale step? In other words, convert the image to B&W with the Channel mixer and then go directly to the PS Duotones? Yeah, you can do a Solid Color Adjustment Layer or something like that but i really like those PS Duotones (and also the ones i made myself). You end up with a beautiful B&W after the channel mixer and then some of that gets lost in the Grayscale step (and if you have a lot of sky in the image, you introduce a lot of noise as well).
 05/29/2003 12:05:15 AM · #74
The way Photoshop creates the duotone is to map the gray values to two (or more) different ink values. You might be able to use the channel mixer to get a better gray RGB image before converting to grayscale, but as fay as I know the actual Duotone Mode is only accessible from a grayscale image. You should be able to turn the duotone back into an RGB however...
 05/29/2003 12:11:02 AM · #75
Just to clarify what happens when you tone a traditional b/w print....

You do not get b/w + brown. You replace the black/grey tones with the sepia tone (if that's the toner you're using..)
First you place the print in solution A which is a kind of bleach that reacts with the silver in the print. If you leave the print in the solution long enough it'll look like a blank sheet of paper.

Then you put the paper into solution B which is the toner solution. The colour of the toner reacts with the bleached silver and replaces what were greys into different densities of sepia. There are no longer any true blacks because they've been replaced with a deep dark sepia colour. So to conclude, a "duotone" sepia toned b/w print is not really duotone at all according to the definitions given before.
Sepia toned prints are less reactive (more stable) than straight b/w prints and will last longer when displayed on the wall for example. This is why older pictures seem to mostly all be sepia toned

Now that I"ve really confused you, let me add another kind of toner to the list that makes more sense as far as duotones go. There's a kind of toner that doesn't need the bleach solution. Selenium toner adds pigment to the greys in a b/w print. It affects mostly the highlights and midtones. You'll still get a true black but with a very slightly bluish cast throughout (which fits a "duotone" description better than sepia does..)
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