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11/21/2006 11:58:09 AM · #1 |
During the recent 'Reflections without mirrors' challenge, a participant actually contacted me during the voting period. Specifically, they contacted me because of a comment I left on their entry. (I have no interest in creating problems for this person & will not mention their name.)
My dilemma is that they encouraged/pleaded for people to reconsider the entry, AND went so far as to explain details of the image & its setup, and how poorly the entry was being judged (DNMC). It just seemed they were more concerned with higher scores, rather than learning from the experience.
If I'm wrong for even bringing this up, then please feel free to correct me. I just thought the purpose of this site was to participate and further one's skills. Well, and for the nice long-sleeved white jackets you get with membership. :0
Seriously, can we have a thoughtful conversation on this subject, or am I wasting my time even caring?
Thanx!
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11/21/2006 12:03:24 PM · #2 |
Originally posted by rossbilly:
During the recent 'Reflections without mirrors' challenge, a participant actually contacted me during the voting period. Specifically, they contacted me because of a comment I left on their entry. (I have no interest in creating problems for this person & will not mention their name.)
My dilemma is that they encouraged/pleaded for people to reconsider the entry, AND went so far as to explain details of the image & its setup, and how poorly the entry was being judged (DNMC). It just seemed they were more concerned with higher scores, rather than learning from the experience.
If I'm wrong for even bringing this up, then please feel free to correct me. I just thought the purpose of this site was to participate and further one's skills. Well, and for the nice long-sleeved white jackets you get with membership. :0
Seriously, can we have a thoughtful conversation on this subject, or am I wasting my time even caring?
Thanx! |
Personally I don't see a problem if somebody contacts me after leaving a comment - but it won't make me change my rating :)
If you (or others) consider it to be a "no-no" you can just change your options to be anonymous during voting.
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11/21/2006 12:04:17 PM · #3 |
Everyone has different reasons for being here, goals, methods, etc. For some people, the goal is to WIN AT ANY COST! I'm not saying that this was necessarily the intention of the person who contacted you but it's just a fact that not everyone can or is willing to take the advice left in comments and use it in a constructive manner.
If you're bothered by people contacting you during a challenge, there's an option to make yourself anonymous while commenting during a challenge and then your name is visible once the challenge ends. Otherwise, you can do what you wish with the message. Personally, a message like that would probably make me want to lower my vote just because I think that's a cheap tactic (but I probably wouldn't) (probably).
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11/21/2006 12:05:56 PM · #4 |
Originally posted by rossbilly:
During the recent 'Reflections without mirrors' challenge, a participant actually contacted me during the voting period. Specifically, they contacted me because of a comment I left on their entry. (I have no interest in creating problems for this person & will not mention their name.)
My dilemma is that they encouraged/pleaded for people to reconsider the entry, AND went so far as to explain details of the image & its setup, and how poorly the entry was being judged (DNMC). It just seemed they were more concerned with higher scores, rather than learning from the experience.
If I'm wrong for even bringing this up, then please feel free to correct me. I just thought the purpose of this site was to participate and further one's skills. Well, and for the nice long-sleeved white jackets you get with membership. :0
Seriously, can we have a thoughtful conversation on this subject, or am I wasting my time even caring?
Thanx! |
If I want to respond to a comment, I try to wait until after voting. Occasionally someone will ask a question and if I'm scoring badly enough that it doesn't matter, I will respond (but not with a plea to change the vote). In general, if someone has responded to my comment on a photo it's been along these same lines, just good-spirited and answering the question asked. I don't feel like a reasonable question should be off limits, and the photographer is free to answer or not as they see fit. But trying to explain yourself in a desperate attempt to beg for higher scores is bad form.
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11/21/2006 12:31:13 PM · #5 |
i have contacted people during challenges
usually because the person had left a comment that misrepresented an image in such a way that it sounded as it was voted as DNMC ..
sometimes you do want to grab the viewer for longer than that 3 sec judgment ...
i do not/ would not beg for votes.
(BTW: * rossbilly did not comment on my image in Reflections..)
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11/21/2006 12:42:58 PM · #6 |
The anonymous voting could be useful for someone who reads this thread, so thanks for mentioning it. I kind of enjoy being contacted & appreciate that we have the ability...
I definitely felt he/she (the person who contacted me) was in the wrong. More importantly, I wish they'd get the real message of so many people saying 'hey, you've missed the point - pay attention!' Guess some people haven't figured out that most of us really do want to help them.
I guess my point was, does anyone else think this was 'fighting dirty' (unethical)?
Edited to say that I have now looked at Ralph's portfolio & it was amazing...until I saw the nekkid person in the corner! lol
Message edited by author 2006-11-21 12:52:32. |
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11/21/2006 12:50:42 PM · #7 |
| I think I know who you're talking about. I got a pm even though I gave the pic a 7, so I don't think it was about the score, just setting people straight. |
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11/21/2006 12:51:04 PM · #8 |
I try to reply to all people who leave comments on my images (challenge or portfolio). Most of my comments are during the challenge and typically are a simple, "Thanks for commenting on my image (insert entry name) in the X challenge". The main reason for the Thank You is because there are hundreds of entries and if they are like me, they only get to comment on maybe 10% or so. So, if I'm fortunate (or unfortunate ;) ) enough to get a response, I want to let them know it is appreciated.
I do it so that they know what image I am referring to and if they leave detailed comments I sometimes reply to those specific items as well.
I know I NEVER ask for any reconsideration. Everyone's vote is their right. If the comment is a real negative comment and something I respond to in constructive detail (no attacks), I try to emphasize, "Please do not adjust your score as this is not my intent of the message".
I know getting responses from some of the images I have left comments on has helped open my mind a bit to other peoples perceptions. Once I've voted, I stick with it. Even if I go DNMC an image, it doesn't seem fair if someone tried to convince me otherwise that I would then alter my score. I would kind of perceive that as 'tampering' with the voting.
I think whoever asked you to "reconsider an image" should take the criticism and decide whether it is worthwhile or not, but should not expect a voter to change their score.
Message edited by author 2006-11-21 12:53:36.
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11/21/2006 12:56:26 PM · #9 |
I have contacted a commenter a couple of times, but never during voting. And I contacted them because they asked a question.
Contact during voting means the anonymity is not there any more.
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11/21/2006 12:57:11 PM · #10 |
Originally posted by rossbilly:
The anonymous voting could be useful for someone who reads this thread, so thanks for mentioning it. I kind of enjoy being contacted & appreciate that we have the ability...
I definitely felt he/she (the person who contacted me) was in the wrong. More importantly, I wish they'd get the real message of so many people saying 'hey, you've missed the point - pay attention!' Guess some people haven't figured out that most of us really do want to help them.
I guess my point was, does anyone else think this was 'fighting dirty' (unethical)?
Edited to say that I have now looked at [user]33982[/user]'s portfolio & it was amazing...until I saw the nekkid person in the corner! lol |
I don't think it's bad manners, per se, to contact someone about a comment if it's obvious that they don't know what the picture is of. This is a world wide site and there are many things that many people might not have ever seen before. You might explain your picture, which might cause someone to understand. I actually contacted a commentor once when the person thought I had used a microscope to take pictures of parasites, when it was in fact just jellyfish under a black light. But, here's the main thing. I would NEVER ask someone to reconsider their scoring. That would be bad manners. Then again, you don't actually have to do anything because of that email. You could just ignore it and move on.
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11/21/2006 12:58:52 PM · #11 |
Okay...I feel kinda dumb for asking this (though I am a relative DPC newbie). How do I reply to comments? The only option I see is Report Post. What am I not seeing? There's been a couple of comments where I would like to ask the commenter to elaborate.
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11/21/2006 01:03:09 PM · #12 |
Originally posted by Citadel:
Okay...I feel kinda dumb for asking this (though I am a relative DPC newbie). How do I reply to comments? The only option I see is Report Post. What am I not seeing? There's been a couple of comments where I would like to ask the commenter to elaborate. |
Generally through a Private Message, although you can quote a previous comment and respond to it the same way you do in forums. You can't do that during a challenge and it's not necessarily a very effective way of responding to a specific photographer because who knows if they'll check back. |
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11/21/2006 01:06:01 PM · #13 |
| In everyone's profile there is a "private message" option. |
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11/21/2006 01:07:19 PM · #14 |
Originally posted by silverscreen:
Personally I don't see a problem if somebody contacts me after leaving a comment - but it won't make me change my rating :)
If you (or others) consider it to be a "no-no" you can just change your options to be anonymous during voting. |
Well said.
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11/21/2006 01:27:51 PM · #15 |
I usually don't contact people during a challenge. People have their opinions and there is nothing I can do about it. Same if someone messages me. I will not change my mind on a shot. I vote what I vote for a reason. and if you have to explain your shot to me, then why vote higher???
I did however PM a certain member during the B&W challenge, but.... that was to thank him for a very flattering comment made. :) He had an idea it was me anyways... but I knew that the message wouldn't steer his vote in anyway.
Now.... if I am messaged during a challnge... I can change my mind... for a hefty cost! just kidding! :)
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11/21/2006 01:28:01 PM · #16 |
Originally posted by Citadel:
How do I reply to comments? The only option I see is Report Post. |
This is probably overkill, but just in case (step by step explanation)
Say I left you a comment. My user name dallasdux would appear to the left showing you "who" made the comment.
If you click on dallasdux , it will take you to my profile. Then click on the "Private Message" link and it will let you type and send a message to my registered email account. When I get it, the title will say "DPChallenge Private Message from Citadel". I will read it and can choose to disregard it or I can click on the "respond" link provided within the email. If I click on the respond, you will get an email from DPC saying "DPChallenge Private Message from Dallasdux". Then you will have a respond option/link in the email if you wish to reply again.
This way each party uses DPC as the delivery method. You don't get to see my email address and I don't get to see yours but we get to converse. It helps maintain some privacy (not making email addresses public).
Hope that helps.
Message edited by author 2006-11-21 13:41:22.
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11/21/2006 01:52:50 PM · #17 |
| If somebody contacts me, I at least look at the photo a second time. Maybe I really did miss something, you never know... |
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11/21/2006 02:03:10 PM · #18 |
From time to time I have questioned (in the comments) an image that I didn't understand. If they responded, and the answer made sense to me, then I would re-evaluate my vote. I wouldn't want to vote an image down because I was too thick to understand it's relevance to a challenge.
Message edited by author 2006-11-21 14:04:15. |
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11/21/2006 02:07:20 PM · #19 |
Thanks Dallas. The process seems simple enough. Of course I am kinda simple myself...
:)
Thanks again
Originally posted by dallasdux:
This is probably overkill, but just in case (step by step explanation)
Say I left you a comment. My user name dallasdux would appear to the left showing you "who" made the comment.
If you click on dallasdux , it will take you to my profile. Then click on the "Private Message" link and it will let you type and send a message to my registered email account. When I get it, the title will say "DPChallenge Private Message from Citadel". I will read it and can choose to disregard it or I can click on the "respond" link provided within the email. If I click on the respond, you will get an email from DPC saying "DPChallenge Private Message from Dallasdux". Then you will have a respond option/link in the email if you wish to reply again.
This way each party uses DPC as the delivery method. You don't get to see my email address and I don't get to see yours but we get to converse. It helps maintain some privacy (not making email addresses public).
Hope that helps. |
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11/21/2006 02:10:46 PM · #20 |
I've been contacted a few times during voting but nobody ever asked me to reconsider. If they did, I would not change my vote.
OTOH, I will sometimes PM somebody if they leave a comment asking for information, location, PP, etc. I start out by thanking them to take the time to vote (whatever the score was) and comment. Comments seem rare these days unless you have a top image.
The only time I sent a PM about something I disagreed with is when a member saw an artifact that was definately not in my image. He tried to bring it out in PS but when he opened it the artifact was gone. Something quirky with his PC, I presume. He then went and bumped the score. I did not ask for the bump.
Asking for reconsideration is bad form, bad manners, and wrong.
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11/21/2006 02:16:09 PM · #21 |
To me, an image should not have to be explained. If I go to an art gallery, usually the artist is not there to tell me what he was trying to achieve when he made his art. I see this site the same way. I go with HOW a photo makes me FEEL, the COMPOSITION, TECHNICALITY, and OBJECTIVE (challenge rules). If the person has to tell me: "Look again, you see the SPOTS on my cat?"... to me they failed the challenge.
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11/21/2006 02:22:44 PM · #22 |
Originally posted by candlerain:
To me, an image should not have to be explained. If I go to an art gallery, usually the artist is not there to tell me what he was trying to achieve when he made his art. I see this site the same way. I go with HOW a photo makes me FEEL, the COMPOSITION, TECHNICALITY, and OBJECTIVE (challenge rules). If the person has to tell me: "Look again, you see the SPOTS on my cat?"... to me they failed the challenge. |
I feel the same way. That is why I don't change a score. The explanation may help me be a bit more open minded for the next challenge but pm's should not affect voting IMO.
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11/21/2006 02:24:01 PM · #23 |
Originally posted by rossbilly:
My dilemma is that they encouraged/pleaded for people to reconsider the entry, AND went so far as to explain details of the image & its setup, and how poorly the entry was being judged (DNMC). |
This is the part that bothers me the most. From the Challenge Rules > Voting Rules: "You may not attempt to alter the point totals for any entry in any way." It seems to me that breaking anonymity to plead a case is more than just bad form...it's wrong. I'd report it if it was as blatent a plea as described here...only if the SC get several reports of similar behavior will they become aware of what may be persistent attempts at vote swaying on the part of a user. |
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11/21/2006 02:24:46 PM · #24 |
I have responded a few times during voting, usually to answer a direct question. I would do it after the challenge, but I rarely look at my picture after voting ends. (Sometimes it is several days before I even get to looking at where I placed). ALWAYS ALWAYS ALWAYS included in the response (sometimes two or three times) is a statement that I do not expect or even want them to revisit my picture for any reason.
If I ever get a comment asking me to reconsider my score given I will be very, very tempted to do just that (though perhaps not in the way they want me to). :/
"Thank you for pointing out that my comment on your picture was so off base. You are correct in that I really needed to revisit it and adjust my score. I have since re-looked at your picture, and upon closer examination, I see that it deserves a 4 rather than the 7 I initially gave it. Good luck in the challenge."
Would I actually leave something like this. No, of course not, but it is what I would be thinking. :) |
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11/21/2006 02:33:51 PM · #25 |
Originally posted by KaDi:
Originally posted by rossbilly:
My dilemma is that they encouraged/pleaded for people to reconsider the entry, AND went so far as to explain details of the image & its setup, and how poorly the entry was being judged (DNMC). |
This is the part that bothers me the most. From the Challenge Rules > Voting Rules: "You may not attempt to alter the point totals for any entry in any way." It seems to me that breaking anonymity to plead a case is more than just bad form...it's wrong. I'd report it if it was as blatent a plea as described here...only if the SC get several reports of similar behavior will they become aware of what may be persistent attempts at vote swaying on the part of a user. |
I agree in my opinion if someone is asking you to change a score they are in breach of the rules and should be reported.
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