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11/01/2006 05:36:17 PM · #51 |
My experience is that bands and their management are some of the best and worst clients a photographer can have.
Most bands/labels will abuse your photos without letting you know, I don't know how many bands have used my shots without asking for permission, but I know how many have asked to use it "for free".
On the other side, you got big bands willingly paying $30k-$50k for a single photo.
I have given up "protecting", and I don't have time or the resources to "get back" at those who steal. But I have stopped uploading bigsize versions of photos.
You have rights, but you lose more fighting than just forgetting, at least that is my experience.
Cheers
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11/01/2006 06:01:59 PM · #52 |
Originally posted by Jmnuggy:
when I was there plagirism got you kicked out of school. I don't want anyone kicked out I just want to be paid. |
So, in a sense, the school plagarized your images. They should be eager to make things right with that tough a policy. |
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11/01/2006 06:06:43 PM · #53 |
| You can bet the school won't be doing the band any favors in the future after your complaint, too. Just continuing to play Devil's Advocate here... :) |
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11/01/2006 06:55:16 PM · #54 |
thats fine, we graduated 3 years ago, the school doesn't do any favors anyway. The band has headlined the largest local venue 3 times last year, they have a full tour schedule as is.
terje, the band didn't steal my photos, the yearbook people did. They took images right off the bands website. |
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11/01/2006 07:07:26 PM · #55 |
i know this seems like the biggest thing in the world to Jmnuggy right now, but, in the big scheme of things, it really is nothing to get twisted up over.
it IS something, though, to learn from...
my advice: basically, get over it. go on and write the yearbook's faculty advisor a letter, making sure they know what happened, but then move on.
don't make it into more than what it is. they are not 'profiting' off your work. if you had shot half the photos in the book without getting paid, you might have a case. a handful of photos amoung hundreds doesn't really weigh much.
focus more on getting things right going forward. use contracts, get releases, get permissions. don't give away anything that you might want compensation for in the future. the biggest mistake most people make in business is trying to get paid after the fact. sometimes it works, but usually, it doesn't.
also, be reasonable about what a photo is worth. publication in a college yearbook is nowhere near the same as publication in a textbook or a periodical. like it or not, the value of those photos is probably not much. it's simple math. how many photos were in the yearbook, and how much was their budget for paying for photography? you might think the photos are worth $100, but what would you have said if they had come to you and offered you $10 and a free pizza coupon? it would be one thing if you were talking about exclusive photos of an internationally recognizaed band, but i don't think that's the case here.
so, again, take this as something to learn from, and focus on doing a better job on the business side going forward. |
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11/01/2006 07:09:27 PM · #56 |
Originally posted by skiprow:
it IS something, though, to learn from... |
The photographer did all the things you suggest; the photos were stolen from a licensed third-party website. |
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11/01/2006 07:37:19 PM · #57 |
thank you general, skip what are you talking about?
1. this isn't the biggest thing for me. They stole my photos.
2. as for what a photo is worth, you are way off. If they came to me before and asked for permission and said their budget was $xxxx and they are offering me $xxxx, I would have agreed. Now they stole my property, I don't care how much their budget was, I can ask for whatever compensation I want, and I could also sue them for damages. If that were the case, it would be more than $100.
3. The photos were exclusive. I own them and have a contract stating that. It really doesn't matter if they are a world renowned band or not, a contract protects my images no matter what the subject.
4. I did all that is needed to protect myself legally. They stole from a website. My business side is fine. You know why, because I have the originals, I have a contract, I can register it w/ the copyright office and take them to court seeking damages.
5. $10 and a pizza coupon would have gotten a big go f*&% yourself.
The entire point of this thread when I started it this morning was to find out what my rights are hence the title of the thread. This is a fairly large oversight by the college and I would like them to acknowledge it. I have no intention on going to court or demanding $15000. I just wanted to know if I was in the right to approach the school over it. I am. If they don't do something, maybe I will make it into a bigger deal. |
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11/01/2006 07:49:20 PM · #58 |
| Here is an Idea send a demand letter a cease and assist and request a recall of all books with your unauthorised photos in it. Then go to the paper and publish a editorial about how they wronged you. They will settle very fast.. |
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11/01/2006 07:52:09 PM · #59 |
Originally posted by coronamv:
Here is an Idea send a demand letter a cease and assist and request a recall of all books with your unauthorised photos in it. Then go to the paper and publish a editorial about how they wronged you. They will settle very fast.. |
You're evil... LOL
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11/01/2006 07:54:05 PM · #60 |
| i do work at the paper... |
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11/01/2006 08:24:06 PM · #61 |
Originally posted by coronamv:
Here is an Idea send a demand letter a cease and assist and request a recall of all books with your unauthorised photos in it. Then go to the paper and publish a editorial about how they wronged you. They will settle very fast.. |
You only need this type of action if they refuse your initial, polite, letter requesting remuneration. Phrase it as a business letter, more like a billing invoice ... as if they must have somehow overlooked obtaining a license, and asking for your "usual usage fee" ... save the threats for later (if needed). |
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11/01/2006 08:25:33 PM · #62 |
3 photos for a school yearbook and all these fuss.
Come on, be proud they even bothered to use those pics.
If you're really THAT pissed, go take legal action. |
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11/01/2006 08:26:20 PM · #63 |
Originally posted by coronamv:
Here is an Idea send a demand letter a cease and assist and request a recall of all books with your unauthorised photos in it. Then go to the paper and publish a editorial about how they wronged you. They will settle very fast.. |
...and our friend there will be the most unpopular guy in school. |
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11/01/2006 08:32:25 PM · #64 |
Originally posted by crayon:
Originally posted by coronamv:
Here is an Idea send a demand letter a cease and assist and request a recall of all books with your unauthorised photos in it. Then go to the paper and publish a editorial about how they wronged you. They will settle very fast.. |
...and our friend there will be the most unpopular guy in school. |
And he loss of 100's of potential customers....
Originally posted by Jmnuggy:
terje, the band didn't steal my photos, the yearbook people did. They took images right off the bands website. |
Yearbook people are schoolmates? If not, monetary resolution sounds pretty good. |
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11/01/2006 09:38:58 PM · #65 |
sorry if i overlooked things, but my reading of the thread didn't make it clear that the things i suggested had been done...
does your contract state that the licensee would be responsible for protecting the 'borrowed' images? does your contract state that the licensee was required to post visible credits and copyright notices? did the licensee perform, or did the licensee fail to perform? what i'm getting at here is that if your contracts didn't cover every contingency for protecting you, then maybe you need to have your contracts reviewed and updated.
i'm not saying that what the college did was right, because, well, yes, they used your images without permission.
however, in cases like this, there are two factors that come into play: intent and damages. there is a difference between an ill-advised college yearbook staff acting out of ignorance and a film production company conspiring to reshoot someone else's work, rather than license the original. there is a difference between including a handful of images in a yearbook that has a very finite market and including an image in a major publication. there is a difference between a publication that rarely pays for imagery (because it is usually contributed or shot internally) and an publication that routinely budgets $250 per image.
one of the things that routinely gets overlooked here at dpc, in terms of valuing photography, is actual market value. it's fine and dandy to go off to fotoquote or any of the other rate calculators to get an idea as to value--but, that idea has to be shored up against what a particular buyer normally pays. and, it DOES matter if it's an exclusive shot of an internationally recognized band (and by exclusive, i mean something like a shot of mick jagger puking or the class president dancing on stage with the goo goo dolls--something that is not necessarily going to be photographed every night). just a shot that could be grabbed by almost anyone on just about any night is not going to be worth as much. around here, we tend to put a much higher value on our images than the marketplace does.
even though the college yearbook staff has done wrong and should be admonished and educated so that this type of situation will be avoided in the future, there is only so much you can do. yes, you are well within your rights to pursue them. if all you really want is for them to acknowledge what they did, that's well within reason. but, beyond that, well, you really need to figure out how much time and effort you're willing to invest in this, and whether it's really worth it.
Message edited by author 2006-11-01 21:41:15. |
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11/02/2006 06:04:15 PM · #66 |
Originally posted by crayon:
3 photos for a school yearbook and all these fuss.
Come on, be proud they even bothered to use those pics.
If you're really THAT pissed, go take legal action. |
Ok, i think I may produce a book of all the DPC Ribbon Winners. Im going to sell it for $60USD and print about 3000. I plan on not sharing any of the money, but you will still be happy i chose your photo right?
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