Any electricians in the house? - DPChallenge Forums

10/31/2006 11:48:28 AM · #1

Hi, probably not the right place to be asking these questions, but I took pictures and figured "what the heck!"

I am trying to install an outlet for my electric dryer...house came equiped for gas! I have everything figured out how to wire the outlet, breaker, etc.

But the breaker won't fit. There is room for it (2 spaces, upper left hand side) and it is the correct brand. But there are plastic plugs blocking the terminal. Are these there because of the wires to the right...that lead to the meter? Or are they removable? My pictures have some explaination in the comment section.

Thanks for any advice!

PLEASE DON'T ADVISE: "Hire and electrician"
My dad is a part time sparky rehab-ing houses, but I can't explain it well enough to him...5 hours away. I'm emailing him the pics, but thought I would try here too. "DPC forums are like a box of chocolates..."

Message edited by author 2006-11-13 16:19:35.

10/31/2006 12:00:41 PM · #2

Some brands of boxes allow you to use those slots, and some don't. I can't recall which ones off the top of my head though, and I'm at work so I can't check right now.

If the screws that attach the plastic things go the right, and tie into your main feed, then you should not remove them. If they go into the back of the box, I would kill the power and unscrew them and see what it looks like. As long as your main feed blocks are still attached firmly then there shouldn't be a problem.

If that won't work......It would be more time consuming, but you could group some other breakers together and create another space. Ie...take 2 10amp breakers, replace with 1 20amp and tie the 2 black wires together into the one breaker. Do this twice, and you've gained the space needed for your 220 breaker. I've done it before, just keep in mind to try and tie 2 together that makes sense, and are not on opposite ends of the house.

Or you could buy a new larger breaker box, thier not very expensive and don't take that much time to swap out. It looks like a really big job, but once you get started its not that bad. I just swapped one out at my dads house a few weeks ago in about an hour.

Disclaimer.....I'm not an electritian, i did work with one for 2 summers in high school and gained most my knowledge there.

10/31/2006 12:06:17 PM · #3

Thanks for the advice, and no disclaimers are needed...I can only hold myself responsible if the house burns down! (Knock on wood!) It is a Bryant brand box that takes Bryant and Murry breakers. I had considered piggybacking a couple of spots to make room.

So it looks like I need to make room for my breaker...maybe take out the breaker to the garage, throw in a 60amp, run it to a smaller box to the side, throw the 30amp (dryer) and 30amp (garage) breakers in there.

Hmmmm.

(ETA: Seriously, I don't want to scare anyone away from advice...you can't be held responsible for anything I do wrong. And I am not going to do anything wrong, just looking for the simplest way to do what I know needs to be done.)

Message edited by author 2006-10-31 12:08:54.

10/31/2006 12:18:39 PM · #4

What is the 220 outlet box just the left of your box? If its not used, as seems in the photo, you could always trace the wire back and use that breaker. Unless its tied in with other wires on the same breaker. A dryer should be on its own circuit.

Looking at your picture you have 4 individual breakers on the bottom right. I can't read them, but odds are most are 10 to 15 amp breakers. If it were me, I would pair those 4 breakers down to 2 and then use the 2 empty slots for my 220. Just buy the right size breakers to cover the amps. Ie...take 2 10amp breakers to 1 20amp and put the 2 seperate wires into the single breaker.

Your idea of adding a second box, will work, it just won't be as clean as keeping everything in the same box. If it were me, I would rather replace the whole box that to add a secondary.

10/31/2006 12:53:01 PM · #5

Originally posted by xstream:

What is the 220 outlet box just the left of your box?

That is the outlet I am wiring up. I wired it and placed it where I knew the dryer cord could reach. I left it up so I could measure the wire needed inside the box.

Originally posted by xstream:

Looking at your picture you have 4 individual breakers on the bottom right. I can't read them, but odds are most are 10 to 15 amp breakers. If it were me, I would pair those 4 breakers down to 2 and then use the 2 empty slots for my 220. Just buy the right size breakers to cover the amps. Ie...take 2 10amp breakers to 1 20amp and put the 2 seperate wires into the single breaker.

The garbage disposal has its own 20a breaker, I am thinking about pairing it with the outlet box that is near the breaker box and freeing up one space...then finding another to pair up and rearrange.

Message edited by author 2006-11-08 12:42:39.

10/31/2006 01:03:27 PM · #6

Originally posted by xstream:

...just keep in mind to try and tie 2 together that makes sense, and are not on opposite ends of the house.

Opposite ends of the house...so there isn't a lot of electrical pull from the long stretches of wire, or so when the breaker trips only part of my house goes dark?

10/31/2006 01:11:22 PM · #7

Actually just the opposite, I try to keep rooms grouped together. Like tie 2 bedrooms together, or the living and family room. That way if you have kill power to that room (to say install a ceiling fan) then someone on the other side of the house won't have to loose power too. I just try to avoid putting say the living room and an upstairs bedroom on the same circuit, just because its not logical, and if your like me you'll forget which rooms you've put together.

If possible, I would try to keep the kitchen and any bathrooms seperate. Because these rooms run higher amp'd stuff than say the living room. Any motor driven product has a high starting amp. It takes more amps to start the motor spinning, and you will see jumps in the line when they kick on. You've probably seen it before, where someone turns a ceiling fan on and the tv kinda flickers or you hear a small pop from the speakers. I think I'm rambling now.....

10/31/2006 01:15:02 PM · #8

Originally posted by drewbixcube:

Opposite ends of the house...so there isn't a lot of electrical pull from the long stretches of wire, or so when the breaker trips only part of my house goes dark?

Just to note, you would have to be running a really long distance for the ohms, or resistance to increase. This is rarely a concern in most "standard" houses.

10/31/2006 01:16:10 PM · #9

thanks for the words of wisdom (not advice, for legal purposes...joking) I know exactly what to do now.

10/31/2006 01:18:46 PM · #10

Originally posted by drewbixcube:

thanks for the words of wisdom (not advice, for legal purposes...joking) I know exactly what to do now.

Your welcome. I was just thinking how funny it was that the first time I've actually helped anyone on this site was in no way photography related...LOL

Which is probably a good thing.....I'm much better with electricity than cameras right now...

cpanaioti

Canon EF 70-300mm f/4.5-5.6 DO IS USM

10/31/2006 01:20:33 PM · #11

If I recall correctly, code requires the dryer to be on it's own breaker (though the code may be different where you are).

Also, if the breaker box is full you may want to check if it's rated to handle any more load. If not, you'll have to upgrade the box or add another one.

10/31/2006 01:22:10 PM · #12

Originally posted by cpanaioti:

Also, if the breaker box is full you may want to check if it's rated to handle any more load. If not, you'll have to upgrade the box or add another one.

Good point...that came up last night but I forgot about it. I will definitely make sure it will handle the 30A more for the dryer.

10/31/2006 01:30:24 PM · #13

Originally posted by xstream:

That is untrue *slap you in the face* you made some very helpfull comments on some of my pictures.

And the whole "slap you in the face" is from Old School when Luke Wilson is in his office talking to his co-workers about his fraternity...hilarious movie! I'm a goof.

oOWonderBreadOo

Canon EOS-5D

Canon EF 100mm f/2.8 USM Macro

10/31/2006 03:00:41 PM · #14

I have not read this thread at all- well basically because it would do you (or me!) no good at all :0)

BUT! My husband is an electrician if you want his opinion and will be home later today...

Spork99

OM System OM-1

10/31/2006 03:05:51 PM · #15

Your box is pretyy darn full. I think you'd be better off upgrading to 200A service and replacing your entire box. It sounds like a PITA, and in a way it will be, but if you ever need to add more, it'll be a lot easier and you won't risk overloading circuits.

11/08/2006 12:37:20 PM · #16

ITS ALIVE!!!!

I piggybacked two 15s into a 30, then added a single-spaced breaker that had two 1/2 size breakers in it (both 20s) and consolidated to make room for my 220v 30a breaker for the dryer. Got it all wired up and plugged in...flip the breakers back on...all lights/appliances still running...turn on the dryer...and it ran perfectly! NO FIRES, NO LIGHTS OUT, EVERYTHING WORKED, except...

I think we broke the very old dryer in the move as it runs, but has no heat! #$(&*#)%^*&@#$!@!!!!! So we are off to buy a new one! I picked up a tester today and will test the outlet tonight to be sure there is 220 running to the dryer and we don't have the same thing happen with a new one.

MAN THIS IS AWESOME! (to be read with VERY heavy sarcastic tone)

Canon EF 100mm f/2.8 USM Macro

11/10/2006 02:57:11 PM · #17

IT'S ALIVE AGAIN...for real this time!

Yeah so I tested the outlet for 220, and it tested negative. I tested the A/C breaker and it tested positive. Long story short, I moved the breakers around until all breakers tested correctly, 110 or 220. Then the dryer worked. So all is well and I can get back to unpacking, cleaning, painting, and all that fun stuff associated with a new house!

For future do-it-yourselfer's information 110 will make the drum spin in a dryer, but you have to have 220 for the heating element to work!

I am very glad I paid for a $5 tester and not a $300 dryer!

Spork99

OM System OM-1

11/10/2006 03:42:58 PM · #18

Originally posted by drewbixcube:

For future do-it-yourselfer's information 110 will make the drum spin in a dryer, but you have to have 220 for the heating element to work!

Yes you do. Basically, the 220V is divided into 2 110V legs and one runs the drive and the other powers the heater.

Just be glad you didn't have them reversed so the heater came on with no drum motion. That's a good way to start a fire, or, more likely, blow the thermal fuse on the dryer, which means you need a repair.